2019-20 Colorado Eagles (AHL) and Utah Grizzlies (ECHL)

[tigervixxxen]

The AHL is a vastly different world

 

[Metallo]

Neither Shane Bowers or Martin Kaut who we all drool over were able to score more than 10 goals last year.

Yeah but it doesn’t have anything to do with the discussion. There is no known universe in which this guy is a scorer.

 

[MaKarter]

He's certainly no Alex Beaucage.

 

[Foppa2118]

Neither Shane Bowers or Martin Kaut who we all drool over were able to score more than 10 goals last year.

I still have concerns over Bowers skill set and if it's good enough to stick in the NHL.

In todays NHL, even 4th liners need to have a certain degree of skill and finishing ability, since they're not competing with scrubs and enforcers anymore.

I'm curious if he ends up looking better on the wing, but I've seen quite a few glorious scoring chances that he flubbed that makes me concerned. He appears to be an outstanding athlete and hard worker, but he needs to work even harder on his shot and his puck skills around the net IMO.

If he can do that he'll become a very solid NHLer, given he does well in most of the other areas of the game.

 

[tigervixxxen]

It’s a fair question but I’m not worried about Bowers in the puck skill department.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Yeah but it doesn’t have anything to do with the discussion. There is no known universe in which this guy is a scorer.

I’m just saying a double digit goal scorer isn’t nothing. The fact that he brings so much toughness while also being able to score is hard to find.

 

[henchman21]

O'Brien is more of a 15g guy than a 10g guy. Last season was shortened and he still hit 10. Kaut had 5 and Bowers had 10... both in less games, but gives some perspective. LOB's 15 two seasons ago would have been tied for 4th on the team. AHL teams, especially ones lacking incoming players like the Eagles, need some foot soldiers. He's a solid one. Having Dries, LOB, Megna, MacDonald (if playing forward), and Vecchione gives some scoring depth to filter through the lineup.

 

[Pokecheque]

I hope MacDonald gets the captaincy, but if they give it to someone else that ain't a big deal.

 

[dmac7719]

Is everyone overlooking the most important fact about O'Brien?

He's from Nova Scotia.

 

[Metallo]

Looking forward to see goal machine LOB for the Eagles. This guy could reach double-digits in goals. Imagine that!

 

[tigervixxxen]

Tynan scored all of 5 goals for the Eagles last year and that bought him 16 games in the NHL.

40 points is a strong season, 50 is borderline elite in the AHL.

 

[McMetal]

30 goals in the AHL will put you in the top 10. 20 gets you into the top 100, it's actually not an easy league to score a whole bunch of goals in. Bringing in a vet who's good for 10-15 lamps lit per season is a boost for their offense, even if he's not a AAAA level player.

 

[Foppa2118]

30 goals in the AHL will put you in the top 10. 20 gets you into the top 100, it's actually not an easy league to score a whole bunch of goals in. Bringing in a vet who's good for 10-15 lamps lit per season is a boost for their offense, even if he's not a AAAA level player.

I think that's more representative of the lack of talent and hockey IQ in the AHL compared to the NHL, rather than it is proof that the AHL is a tough league to score in. The really skilled guys don't tend to play full seasons there.

Mikko put up 24 goals and 60 points in 52 AHL games as a rookie 19 year old. And this was during a transition year to North America, and before he had really proven himself as a scorer.

If he had played all 76 games that year and hadn't been injured, he was on pace for 35 goals and 88 points as a rookie. If he had played a second full year in the AHL he would have blown that league up stat wise.

 

[Metallo]

30 goals in the AHL will put you in the top 10. 20 gets you into the top 100, it's actually not an easy league to score a whole bunch of goals in. Bringing in a vet who's good for 10-15 lamps lit per season is a boost for their offense, even if he's not a AAAA level player.

The narrative that it’s not an easy league to score in is overblown. Of course your best goal scorers are going to get recalled and that reduces their goal totals. But on a per game level they still score goals.
P.S. Max/Min Team GPG (2019-2020 Reg season)
AHL 3.71(BEL)/2.41(BRI)
NHL 3.43(TBL)/2.00(DET)

 

[PAZ]

I still have concerns over Bowers skill set and if it's good enough to stick in the NHL.

In todays NHL, even 4th liners need to have a certain degree of skill and finishing ability, since they're not competing with scrubs and enforcers anymore.

I'm curious if he ends up looking better on the wing, but I've seen quite a few glorious scoring chances that he flubbed that makes me concerned. He appears to be an outstanding athlete and hard worker, but he needs to work even harder on his shot and his puck skills around the net IMO.

If he can do that he'll become a very solid NHLer, given he does well in most of the other areas of the game.

Bowers has shown enough scoring ability to be a 4th line center if he can make it. If he can replace what Bellemare brings that would be a huge win.

 

[Foppa2118]

Bowers has shown enough scoring ability to be a 4th line center if he can make it. If he can replace what Bellemare brings that would be a huge win.

I'd like to to see a little improvement before putting him on Bellemare's level. I've seen him fire a fair amount of pucks on good chances into the goalies chest.

He's a hard worker though, and some aspects of your shot can be improved through hard work and dedication in practice.

 

[henchman21]

Tynan scored all of 5 goals for the Eagles last year and that bought him 16 games in the NHL.

40 points is a strong season, 50 is borderline elite in the AHL.

50 is still far from elite, but 60+ is an accomplishment down there.

 

[henchman21]

The narrative that it’s not an easy league to score in is overblown. Of course your best goal scorers are going to get recalled and that reduces their goal totals. But on a per game level they still score goals.
P.S. Max/Min Team GPG (2019-2020 Reg season)
AHL 3.71(BEL)/2.41(BRI)
NHL 3.43(TBL)/2.00(DET)

Scoring isn’t harder, it isn’t... just that the best players who have NHL talent split their time. The top AHL guys that stick around aren’t really all that good. Then on top of that, most lineups split the scoring talent between 3 lines. So it is more balanced between players and legit NHL talent tends to split time.

 

[PAZ]

I'd like to to see a little improvement before putting him on Bellemare's level. I've seen him fire a fair amount of pucks on good chances into the goalies chest.

He's a hard worker though, and some aspects of your shot can be improved through hard work and dedication in practice.

Bellemare had a career year with us, he's a very solid #4C who puts up 10-15 points a year. Bowers just needs to be able to mark smart, safe plays and be able to transition the puck.

 

[Foppa2118]

Bellemare had a career year with us, he's a very solid #4C who puts up 10-15 points a year. Bowers just needs to be able to mark smart, safe plays and be able to transition the puck.

He did have a career year, but still 9 goals and 22 points in 69 games while playing a safe smart two way game is pretty solid. He also helps the team by generating momentum with sustained pressure in the O zone, when he's not scoring.

Easier said than done for fringe NHLers to provide the same all around game. Not saying Bowers will fall into this category, but we've seen lots of guys tried on the 4th line, and lots of guys fall short of what Belly brings on a consistent basis.

 

[PAZ]

He did have a career year, but still 9 goals and 22 points in 69 games while playing a safe smart two way game is pretty solid. He also helps the team by generating momentum with sustained pressure in the O zone, when he's not scoring.

Easier said than done for fringe NHLers to provide the same all around game.

Oh I agree, Bellemare is the ideal #4C and I don't expect Bowers to replace what Bellemare brings overall to the team (at least right away), but replacing his production is one of the least of my worries since there isn't much offense to begin with.

 

[S E P H]

He did have a career year, but still 9 goals and 22 points in 69 games while playing a safe smart two way game is pretty solid. He also helps the team by generating momentum with sustained pressure in the O zone, when he's not scoring.

I am not going to judge rookies and second years in the AHL because it can be a very difficult transition period. Additionally, points don't mean crap at the AHL level like we saw with Shattenkirk and I think Bowers still has a lot left in the tank to improve as well. However, to be considered an NHL player I suggest that he's got to get into the 40 point range to show enough offence to stick at the NHL level consistently. LOC was considerably older, but he manage to get into the low 40s in points and is barely a bottom 6 player at this point - albeit a productive one.

 

[McMetal]

The narrative that it’s not an easy league to score in is overblown. Of course your best goal scorers are going to get recalled and that reduces their goal totals. But on a per game level they still score goals.
P.S. Max/Min Team GPG (2019-2020 Reg season)
AHL 3.71(BEL)/2.41(BRI)
NHL 3.43(TBL)/2.00(DET)

Yes, on a per game level they still score. But my point is that scoring down there is generally done by committee, not driven by big workhorse stars like it is in the NHL who drive your offense night in and night out. So adding a 10-15 goal scorer IS upgrading your offense at that level, even though it would make them a pure third liner in the NHL. Different leagues.

 

[McMetal]

I think that's more representative of the lack of talent and hockey IQ in the AHL compared to the NHL, rather than it is proof that the AHL is a tough league to score in. The really skilled guys don't tend to play full seasons there.

Mikko put up 24 goals and 60 points in 52 AHL games as a rookie 19 year old. And this was during a transition year to North America, and before he had really proven himself as a scorer.

If he had played all 76 games that year and hadn't been injured, he was on pace for 35 goals and 88 points as a rookie. If he had played a second full year in the AHL he would have blown that league up stat wise.

Mikko was obviously an elite talent working his way up to the NHL. He'll never see AHL ice again. So I don't think the comparison of him to a AAAA player who will never make it in the big leagues is a valid one. High end talents who are preparing to transition out of there can definitely torch the league, but for the vast majority of AHL lifers they just don't have the talent to do so.

 

[Foppa2118]

Mikko was obviously an elite talent working his way up to the NHL. He'll never see AHL ice again. So I don't think the comparison of him to a AAAA player who will never make it in the big leagues is a valid one. High end talents who are preparing to transition out of there can definitely torch the league, but for the vast majority of AHL lifers they just don't have the talent to do so.

My point with Mikko was to show that the low point and goal totals in the AHL are more representative of the lack of talent and hockey IQ from AHLers, rather than it being a tough league to score in.

When a smart and talented player like Mikko is in the AHL he has no problems scoring, even as a rookie 19 year old getting used to the North American game.

This obviously isn't the case for everyone, and I agree with SEPH that you shouldn't put too much stock into point totals in the AHL. Lots of other factors are involved like poor linemates, poor systems, and players working on other aspects of their game to make the NHL.