2018 Management Discussion, Pt. II

[Jack Burton]

Just quoting this, just in case Benningsters miss it.

I wonder if the Bro's could somehow spin it that it's not true because it's not coming from a reliable media source?

 

[Melvin]

You know, I just realized that 35 year old Dan Hamhuis had more points than any D on our team but Edler last year.

Pretty funny.

 

[Hansen]

You know, I just realized that 35 year old Dan Hamhuis had more points than any D on our team but Edler last year.

Pretty funny.

and we let him walk for absolutely nothing

 

[pgj98m3]

We do have a GM with a plan.

His name is Jim Benning and his plan is to make the playoffs

His plan is very similar to my retirement plan.....win the Lotto. Next step is to actually acquire more prospects...errrrrr....tickets.

 

[RandV]

The irony is that Jim Benning, the player, was seemingly the exact sort of guy who would have benefited from the modern outlook. He put up decent offensive numbers on some bad teams but was ultimately cut for being "too small" at six freakin' feet tall. Jim Benning should be on a lifelong quest to prove the value of enlightened thinking, and he's like the polar opposite (or is at least extremely susceptible to the views of people who are the polar opposite).


"Hey, why turn good hockey players into mentors when you can turn mentors into good hockey players?"

Hah, I'd never seen that one before. I don't know about oil rigs but actually did the more mundane version of their moon job as a teen with my dad out on BC forestry roads: drilling into rocks so you can cram explosives into the hole and blast it. If you're not the guy in the cockpit running the machine it's literally just grunt work that anyone could do. The machine drills down the length of the steel rod, the head decouples and lifts up, and the 'helper' on the ground has to lift and set the next rod into place. When you've gone as far as you need the drill pulls up and you take the steel rods back out one at a time.

And that's pretty much what Bruce Willis is bringing up 7 of his own guys up to do between the two rigs, and in near 0G so the heavy rods would weigh practically nothing. No real experience necessary, I was probably 14 the first time I worked with my dad. And not only did NASA let these guys go into space practically on their own they also gave them a nukes to manage

 

[Jyrki21]

Hah, I'd never seen that one before. I don't know about oil rigs but actually did the more mundane version of their moon job as a teen with my dad out on BC forestry roads: drilling into rocks so you can cram explosives into the hole and blast it. If you're not the guy in the cockpit running the machine it's literally just grunt work that anyone could do. The machine drills down the length of the steel rod, the head decouples and lifts up, and the 'helper' on the ground has to lift and set the next rod into place. When you've gone as far as you need the drill pulls up and you take the steel rods back out one at a time.

And that's pretty much what Bruce Willis is bringing up 7 of his own guys up to do between the two rigs, and in near 0G so the heavy rods would weigh practically nothing. No real experience necessary, I was probably 14 the first time I worked with my dad. And not only did NASA let these guys go into space practically on their own they also gave them a nukes to manage

Yeah, you can find Affleck's DVD commentary on Youtube... it's something like "How hard can it be? Point it at the ground and turn it on." I have not done any drilling, but leaving the theatre in 1998 I definitely had the exact same thought about about the plotline. Someone needs to explain comparative advantage to Benning...

 

[Johnny Canucker]

Why is our media so gutless than to literally ask him “In 2014 you said blah blah blah and you have the worst cumulative team since then... in the WHOLE league, what happened ?”

Heyyyyyyy...what's this?! Never saw that before!

 

[Peter10]

Why is our media so gutless than to literally ask him “In 2014 you said blah blah blah and you have the worst cumulative team since then... in the WHOLE league, what happened ?”

Actually sometimes there are some questions about it (although in a somewhat soft style), the problem is that there are no follow ups to the gibberish they get as an answer. Whenever such a question is raised (happens rarely enough), Linden and Benning normally talk about the difficult situation they came in, injuries or completely deflect to a different topic and the media lets them get away with it.

 

[Fire Benning]

Here's a rundown of the decrepits, the never-gonna-trades and the run down and retireds we had from the 2011 season.

Here's what every member of the 2011 Vancouver Canucks is up to now

Anyone expecting any GM to come in and turn around a team like this that for the most part dropped off the face of the earth soon after the Finals, along with a prospect cuppboard full of nothing, to be able to compete this soon is nuts.

I don't think the expectation was to compete by this point (unless you're Benning or Linden who thought they could become an elite team within 4 or 5 years), but obviously you should expect some sort of direction to be established..

 

[Fire Benning]

You know, I just realized that 35 year old Dan Hamhuis had more points than any D on our team but Edler last year.

Pretty funny.

Still somehow a better defenseman than Benning has ever been able to acquire.

 

[Melvin]

I don't think the expectation was to compete by this point (unless you're Benning or Linden who thought they could become an elite team within 4 or 5 years), but obviously you should expect some sort of direction to be established..

Apparently and unsurprisingly the reasonable expected time it takes to turn us around is defined as being the exact time thst it actually takes.

 

[F A N]

The irony is that Jim Benning, the player, was seemingly the exact sort of guy who would have benefited from the modern outlook. He put up decent offensive numbers on some bad teams but was ultimately cut for being "too small" at six freakin' feet tall. Jim Benning should be on a lifelong quest to prove the value of enlightened thinking, and he's like the polar opposite (or is at least extremely susceptible to the views of people who are the polar opposite).

Seriously? This whole meat and potatoes thing again? Benning has consistently targeted smaller offensive Dmen hoping they can be that in the NHL. I don't think the value of a Makar or Hughes type Dmen was lost on Benning.[/QUOTE]

"Hey, why turn good hockey players into mentors when you can turn mentors into good hockey players?"

Your comparison doesn't make sense. Do you prefer hockey players who can do the job but are inexperienced or experienced players who don't know how to do the job?

 

[Bleach Clean]

Apparently and unsurprisingly the reasonable expected time it takes to turn us around is defined as being the exact time thst it actually takes.

This is what I find fascinating about the evaluation of management action. When the return isn't enough, it's because no one was offering more. When the team is consistently in the basement, it's because there weren't any prospects and 'rebuilds' take time. When Benning pays too much, it's the market rate.

When does something happen against the expected timeline or expectation? Or, is it all fated to happen this way regardless of who is in charge?

 

[Melvin]

This is what I find fascinating about the evaluation of management action. When the return isn't enough, it's because no one was offering more. When the team is consistently in the basement, it's because there weren't any prospects and 'rebuilds' take time. When Benning pays too much, it's the market rate.

When does something happen against the expected timeline or expectation? Or, is it all fated to happen this way regardless of who is in charge?

When a draft pick hits, it's a brilliant selection. When a draft pick doesn't hit, it's because "nobody bats 1000" and "draft is a crapshoot."

It's all the same nonsense motivated reasoning where a failure is impossible to achieve by retroactive definition.

By the way I got your msg but my computer is broken and I don't want to respond on my phone. I'm hoping to fix it tonight.

 

[timbermen]

Just quoting this, just in case Benningsters miss it.

Not from a credible news source, nice try though.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

You know, I just realized that 35 year old Dan Hamhuis had more points than any D on our team but Edler last year.

Pretty funny.

But but but but...it takes two to tango! It's not Benning's fault that a deal couldn't get done! Totally! Just like all those other deals that didn't get done!

 

[ProstheticConscience]

I wonder if the Bro's could somehow spin it that it's not true because it's not coming from a reliable media source?

14 posts later:

Not from a credible news source, nice try though.

It's your own damn fault if we take you seriously when you say this, timber. You know that, right?

 

[DFAC]

We need a new GM. Move Benning to head of scouting, it seems like his true passion anyways

 

[Hit the post]

You know, I just realized that 35 year old Dan Hamhuis had more points than any D on our team but Edler last year.

Pretty funny.

He's still a better NHL defenseman than any Benning has acquired the past 4 seasons (an old, past his prime Hamhuis). Blame Gillis according to Paulinvancouver. Only reason this team has two legit D prospects *AFTER FOUR SEASONS* is that both were drafted 5th & 7th overall. Best D on the team right now is still Tanev (undrafted Gilligan acquisition - but hey, I guess didn't count as a prospect in 2011) and Edler (Nonis later round pick).

But the future!

 

[TruGr1t]

Sounds like Benning is jazzed to extend Boeser. Expecting $6.5M-$7M AAV due to negotiating prowess.

 

[Jyrki21]

Seriously? This whole meat and potatoes thing again? Benning has consistently targeted smaller offensive Dmen hoping they can be that in the NHL. I don't think the value of a Makar or Hughes type Dmen was lost on Benning.

I was one of the people actually defending Benning over "meat and potatoes" as that was consistently misused here in terms of what he actually meant when he said it. No, I'm referring to the obsession with culture, leadership, Sutter-ness and other items I would classify as old-school "hockey religion" for which he is willing to fork over an undue amount of value, considering how little these things appear to matter as compared to actual hockey skill. Benning is plenty guilty of this and I find it ironic considering he was basically a victim of dogma over evidence in his playing days. True the specific principles in play were different.

Your comparison doesn't make sense. Do you prefer hockey players who can do the job but are inexperienced or experienced players who don't know how to do the job?

Of course it makes sense. If anything your comparison just reinforced it – why search out mentors and hope that they magically develop good hockey ability, when you can just get good hockey players and ask them to mentor? This is how every other line of work does it.

 

[Hansen]

But teams dont need to make these deals because of Vegas expansion draft, right?

 

[RandV]

Of course it makes sense. If anything your comparison just reinforced it – why search out mentors and hope
that they magically develop good hockey ability, when you can just get good hockey players and ask them to mentor? This is how every other line of work does it.

And the most public examples of 'mentoring' in Canucks history would be Messier->Naslund and Sundin->Kesler. All other Messier negatives aside he still produced here as a 2nd line C, so there's the common thread of veteran talent playing on and contributing to the same line as the young player.

Which is generally how everyone else does. Not sure how Jay Beagle or Brandon Sutter are supposed to help Elias Pettersson, but this seems like Benning's own unique special strategy much like the "age gap" thing he was always after in his first few seasons.

 

[Hit the post]

Maybe he develops an allergy to jockstaps

Bovinder is not amused by your comment.

And the most public examples of 'mentoring' in Canucks history would be Messier->Naslund and Sundin->Kesler. All other Messier negatives aside he still produced here as a 2nd line C, so there's the common thread of veteran talent playing on and contributing to the same line as the young player.

Which is generally how everyone else does. Not sure how Jay Beagle or Brandon Sutter are supposed to help Elias Pettersson, but this seems like Benning's own unique special strategy much like the "age gap" thing he was always after in his first few seasons.

Mentored by "has beens" vs mentored by "never was"....

 

[Cancuks]

But teams dont need to make these deals because of Vegas expansion draft, right?

I hope there are multiple draft picks going Arizona's way as well. The bigger the package the better.