2018 Management Discussion, Pt. II

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Zombotron

Supreme Overlord of Crap
Jan 3, 2010
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Previous threads

https://hfboards.mandatory.com/threads/2018-management-discussion.2507211

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Last post from previous thread:

It is a joy tearing down yet another wonky post by you FAN. Truly. I'm glad you have afforded me another opportunity to do so here.

[Ed Willes] has been "consistently ripping the Canucks since Nonis"? Hardly. You must not be reading his articles or listening to him anymore. He's been pushing Benning's ability to draft on more than one occasion. Have a look:


Willes: Benning knows the craft of drafting



Ed Willes: The future Canucks fans have waited for is about to arrive. No, seriously.




Over to you, FAN.
 

Peter10

Registered User
Dec 7, 2003
4,193
5,042
Germany
Are we going back to the 1000 replies limit?

Edit: Looks like I was a second too late with my question.
 

Ryp37

Registered User
Nov 6, 2011
7,525
1,081
We should be in as the third team for the Karlssons trade, could get an easy asset for 2 years of Callahan

Which of course means only jersey and New York are rumoured to be in on it
 

megatron

Registered User
Dec 11, 2016
270
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Beagle deal is so bad that random media from toronto are not even defending/ propping it up. No tweets about how some GM would "do that deal in a heart beat" (aka Gudbranson signing) and no reports of GMs calling Benning and congratulating him on the contract (aka Sutter signing).

In a vaccuum the deal is bad but not back-breaking as the cap hot is 3 mill. but when you factor in where the Canucks are in the standings, their glut of mediocre forwards, their rationale for the signing (grit, leadership), and the body of work for this management team then this deal is downright terrible.

I also dont like the fact that even entering year 5 this management team is making rookie mistakes and I get the sense they don't really know what it means to manage the team. There were reports that Green was pushing hard for the signing of Beagle. To quote Lawrence Gillman from a segment on 1040 "Coaches coach, managers manage...".

Hoping this is the year that some of the laggards start to realize how horrible this regime is and start the impetus for change.
 

RandV

It's a wolf v2.0
Jul 29, 2003
26,831
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Benning seems to have an unusual idea on how to develop prospects at the NHL level. Early on, when we had a team full of long term vets like Sedins/Burrows/Hamhuis/etc, he was quoted saying that Derek Dorsett was the guy he wanted the kids (McCann, Virtanen) "rubbing elbows" with.

Going over everything he's done, it seems his idea of 'insulating' young prospects is less about actually playing the game and more about giving them physical 'protection' if they step on the ice and off ice guidance on being a professional. Appropriate line mates or even actual playing time, which would be the conventional wisdom, is a distant third.
 

Pastor Of Muppetz

Registered User
Oct 1, 2017
25,988
15,859
Benning seems to have an unusual idea on how to develop prospects at the NHL level. Early on, when we had a team full of long term vets like Sedins/Burrows/Hamhuis/etc, he was quoted saying that Derek Dorsett was the guy he wanted the kids (McCann, Virtanen) "rubbing elbows" with.

Going over everything he's done, it seems his idea of 'insulating' young prospects is less about actually playing the game and more about giving them physical 'protection' if they step on the ice and off ice guidance on being a professional. Appropriate line mates or even actual playing time, which would be the conventional wisdom, is a distant third.
Obviously,the results don't really show it,but Derek Dorset types are precisely the kind players that you should have on your team..He's admitted that he's one of those 'bad loser' type players..If a player on the team is not pulling his weight,you need somebody on the team that has to let 'that guy' know.

Dorset was not the most talented,and usually lost most of his fights..I don't think he was brought in just to fight guys..He was obviously very respected by the players...Not to knock Henrik,but I don't know if he would be the guy to give a teammate a 'glare' if he wasn't giving 100% (and I know that some of his post game comments used to rub a lot of peeps the wrong way).

Anyway,..thats my mentorship post..I expect to get mocked for it..Flame away:)
 

y2kcanucks

Le Sex God
Aug 3, 2006
71,229
10,319
Surrey, BC
Obviously,the results don't really show it,but Derek Dorset types are precisely the kind players that you should have on your team..He's admitted that he's one of those 'bad loser' type players..If a player on the team is not pulling his weight,you need somebody on the team that has to let 'that guy' know.

Dorset was not the most talented,and usually lost most of his fights..I don't think he was brought in just to fight guys..He was obviously very respected by the players...Not to knock Henrik,but I don't know if he would be the guy to give a teammate a 'glare' if he wasn't giving 100% (and I know that some of his post game comments used to rub a lot of peeps the wrong way).

Anyway,..thats my mentorship post..I expect to get mocked for it..Flame away:)

Who are the "Derek Dorsett" types on Tampa? Who are the "mentors" there? :laugh:
 
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vancityluongo

curse of the strombino
Sponsor
Jul 8, 2006
18,561
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Edmonton
The only thing remaining with this offseason that is even remotely interesting is if a) a trade happens b) the Canucks name a captain, which they might not until September or at all this year.

Snooze.
 

tyhee

Registered User
Feb 5, 2015
2,535
2,612
Beagle deal is so bad that random media from toronto are not even defending/ propping it up. No tweets about how some GM would "do that deal in a heart beat" (aka Gudbranson signing) and no reports of GMs calling Benning and congratulating him on the contract (aka Sutter signing).

In a vaccuum the deal is bad but not back-breaking as the cap hot is 3 mill. but when you factor in where the Canucks are in the standings, their glut of mediocre forwards, their rationale for the signing (grit, leadership), and the body of work for this management team then this deal is downright terrible.

I also dont like the fact that even entering year 5 this management team is making rookie mistakes and I get the sense they don't really know what it means to manage the team. There were reports that Green was pushing hard for the signing of Beagle. To quote Lawrence Gillman from a segment on 1040 "Coaches coach, managers manage...".

Hoping this is the year that some of the laggards start to realize how horrible this regime is and start the impetus for change.

These guys we signed are signed through the next round of expansion, that's $6m less we have to exploit teams looking to move players before expansion.

You think Benning has thought that far ahead?

I think there's even less foresight than most think.

Luongo's contract expires at the end of the 2021-2022 season. If he retires any time before then the Canucks take a cap hit of about $8.52 million, spread over the remaining years from his retirement through 2021-2022.

If Luongo retires in the summer of 2021, the Canucks figure to have the following dead or by that time substantially underpforming (dead or nearly dead) money against the cap:

Luongo recapture8.52 million
Ericksson6 million
Beagle3 million
Roussel3 million
whomever else gets given too much before Benning gets fired??
Total20.52 mill + ?
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
td p { margin-bottom: 0cm; }p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }

If instead Lu retires in the summer of 2020 then we get, for the 2020-21 season:

Luongo recapture4,26 million
Ericksson6 million
Beagle3 million
Roussel3 million
Gudbranson4 million
Sutter4.375 million
whomever else gets given too much before Benning gets fired??
Total24.635 mill + ?
[TBODY] [/TBODY]
td p { margin-bottom: 0cm; }p { margin-bottom: 0.25cm; line-height: 120%; }

plus 16.26 mill + for 2021/22.

That is an awful lot of dead or nearly dead money to be set against the cap in three or four seasons, especially with several years of decision-making yet to come. That is money unavailable to the Canucks for the likes of Boeser, Pettersson, Hughes and whomever else they might have that might get good and get big raises by that time. It is money unavailable to take cap dumps and unavailable to fill needs in free agency.

Perhaps the Canucks will get lucky and Luongo will get something to put him on LTIR, but the failure to take into account that those are the years the Canucks are most in danger of having a large amount of dead cap money and adding to the completely foreseeable risk by signing more players to terms that are too long is amazing mismanagement imo.
 
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Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
15,198
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Montreal, QC
These guys we signed are signed through the next round of expansion, that's $6m less we have to exploit teams looking to move players before expansion.

At least we can leave them exposed. Small victories.

This is actually where we are at now with the Canucks. At least the terrible contracts they signed this year can be exposed in the next expansion draft. Yay!
 

Bleach Clean

Registered User
Aug 9, 2006
26,997
6,572
Benning seems to have an unusual idea on how to develop prospects at the NHL level. Early on, when we had a team full of long term vets like Sedins/Burrows/Hamhuis/etc, he was quoted saying that Derek Dorsett was the guy he wanted the kids (McCann, Virtanen) "rubbing elbows" with.

Going over everything he's done, it seems his idea of 'insulating' young prospects is less about actually playing the game and more about giving them physical 'protection' if they step on the ice and off ice guidance on being a professional. Appropriate line mates or even actual playing time, which would be the conventional wisdom, is a distant third.


Actually, I would rather categorize what he's doing as hyper-dinosaur than merely unusual. He has always coveted the throw back player. Whether it's paying a 3rd for a 4th liner in Dorsett, overpaying Sutter and/or chasing Gudbranson. For some reason, he is enamoured with this type of player -- to his own detriment.

Now, before we see people pointing to Baertschi, Granlund, Goldobin etc.. as counter-points, understand that I am talking about overpaying for limited, character assets. Paying for skilled assets is not questioned in principle. Paying for limited hockey players, is. Reason: It's harder to cultivate skill. So why continue to pay for worse hockey players? It has to be due to a methodology on how to build hockey teams.

The difference here is that Benning believes in this methodology so much that he actually thinks that getting worse players will make it easier for his prospects. That's how much he covets limited hockey players. It's traditional, archaic thinking in overdrive.


Obviously,the results don't really show it ,but Derek Dorset types are precisely the kind players that you should have on your team


So the results don't show it, but this type of player is needed. Does that make sense?

I'll play along here:

Can you provide any results, anywhere, that quantify the impact of this type of player on a team?
 

ProstheticConscience

Check dein Limit
Apr 30, 2010
18,459
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Canuck Nation
Obviously,the results don't really show it,but Derek Dorset types are precisely the kind players that you should have on your team..He's admitted that he's one of those 'bad loser' type players..If a player on the team is not pulling his weight,you need somebody on the team that has to let 'that guy' know.

Dorset was not the most talented,and usually lost most of his fights..I don't think he was brought in just to fight guys..He was obviously very respected by the players...Not to knock Henrik,but I don't know if he would be the guy to give a teammate a 'glare' if he wasn't giving 100% (and I know that some of his post game comments used to rub a lot of peeps the wrong way).

Anyway,..thats my mentorship post..I expect to get mocked for it..Flame away:)
Yeah. How's that worked out?
 
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