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2018 Management Discussion, Pt. II

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RandV

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Mergatroidskittle said:
Obviously we aren’t at the same level as them right now. Go back a couple years when they were a young team and I’m sure you will see those Dorsett types.
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Not really... at least under Yzerman. Using Stamkos as the base point and looking at the roster each year they had a couple of one off guys: Evgeny Artyukhin (a TB pick) and Zenon Konopka, plus they employed Steve Downie for a couple seasons but he started as more of a legit prospect scoring 79-22-24-46 his first full season there. Then finally a little bit of toughness with two partial seasons of BJ Crombeen.

But starting from Kucherov's career in 2013-14 (they dumped Crombeen that season) which includes the group: Kucherov, Johnson, Palat, Killorn, Namestnikov, Point, Gourde, etc, there's been exactly 0 Dorsett types employed there.
 
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RandV said:
Not really... at least under Yzerman. Using Stamkos as the base point and looking at the roster each year they had a couple of one off guys: Evgeny Artyukhin (a TB pick) and Zenon Konopka, plus they employed Steve Downie for a couple seasons but he started as more of a legit prospect scoring 79-22-24-46 his first full season there. Then finally a little bit of toughness with two partial seasons of BJ Crombeen.

But starting from Kucherov's career in 2013-14 (they dumped Crombeen that season) which includes the group: Kucherov, Johnson, Palat, Killorn, Namestnikov, Point, Gourde, etc, there's been exactly 0 Dorsett types employed there.
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Dont forget about Gudas. He was there for 2ish seasons with Downie
 
ProstheticConscience

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RandV said:
Not really... at least under Yzerman. Using Stamkos as the base point and looking at the roster each year they had a couple of one off guys: Evgeny Artyukhin (a TB pick) and Zenon Konopka, plus they employed Steve Downie for a couple seasons but he started as more of a legit prospect scoring 79-22-24-46 his first full season there. Then finally a little bit of toughness with two partial seasons of BJ Crombeen.

But starting from Kucherov's career in 2013-14 (they dumped Crombeen that season) which includes the group: Kucherov, Johnson, Palat, Killorn, Namestnikov, Point, Gourde, etc, there's been exactly 0 Dorsett types employed there.
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Amazing how teams get better when you put better players on them rather than stuffing them full of no-talent grinders and hoping a skeleton crew of young scorers can drag the team into contention.
 
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Verviticus

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i could be wrong, but im guessing theres no way the NHL actually sticks vancouver with the full recapture
 
y2kcanucks

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Ronning On Empty said:
Partial recapture then? It would be humorous to see the league overturn this, actually.
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I'm still waiting to see what happens if Weber retires with 1 year left. Especially if the league enforces a recapture penalty against the Canucks. Nashville would absolutely be ripped apart by a $25M cap recapture penalty of their own.
 
RandV

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Ronning On Empty said:
Partial recapture then? It would be humorous to see the league overturn this, actually.
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It should be dead simple, his cap hit is $5.3M vs a salary of $1M, so following the spirit of the rule and not the Brian Burke screw job the cap recapture penalty if he retires the last year should be 1 year $4.3M, not $8M+. The rule as it is only gets wonky and breaks if a team trades their player.

And to elaborate further how screwed up the rule is if Weber retires with one year left Nashville will have a 1 year $24M+ cap recapture penalty.
 
RandV

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Melvin said:
I am still shocked that that ridiculous rule is even in the CBA. It makes absolutely no sense the way it is structured, where the closer a player comes to playing out his contract the more it hurts the team.
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That's not actually how it works, it only works that way if a player is traded. Using the final year Luongo case had he remained on Vancouver for the duration of the contract it would simply be the difference between the cap hit vs salary, $4.3M. But because we traded him the actual cap vs salary effect will be that Vancouver paid about $8M more in salary vs cap hit, while Florida getting the latter end of it will have paid about $4M more in cap hit vs salary.

This is where we get burned, while the intent of the rule is to balance the books there's a $4M cap bonus on Florida's side of the Luongo contract that the league just writes off. The recapture penalty focuses on the effect of the contract directly to the team, not the player.
 

tyhee

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Luongo and Weber will both end their careers on LTIR. Unless they really hate their former teams.
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Luongo's feelings towards the Canucks are irrelevant to the issue. He can't place himself on LTIR.

Luongo is not a Vancouver Canuck. What incentive do the Panthers have to place him on LTIR and pay him a million dollars in order to save Vancouver a penalty if he retires?

Are you predicting both of these guys are going to have bona fide injuries?

The only ways I see it happening are:

1. a bona fide injury; or
2. the Canucks give Florida player(s) or draft pick(s) or both in trade so that Luongo becomes a Canuck, the Canucks place him on LTIR and the league lets it go despite the obvious stench of illegal cap avoidance.

I do see some chance of the league not enforcing the rule, but it still seems like incompetent management to leave the team in a bind if the league enforces the rule that is on the books.
 

FroshaugFan2

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tyhee said:
Luongo's feelings towards the Canucks are irrelevant to the issue. He can't place himself on LTIR.

Luongo is not a Vancouver Canuck. What incentive do the Panthers have to place him on LTIR and pay him a million dollars in order to save Vancouver a penalty if he retires?

Are you predicting both of these guys are going to have bona fide injuries?

The only ways I see it happening are:

1. a bona fide injury; or
2. the Canucks give Florida player(s) or draft pick(s) or both in trade so that Luongo becomes a Canuck, the Canucks place him on LTIR and the league lets it go despite the obvious stench of illegal cap avoidance.

I do see some chance of the league not enforcing the rule, but it still seems like incompetent management to leave the team in a bind if the league enforces the rule that is on the books.
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Luongo can't put himself on LTIR, but the Panthers can't force him to retire either. If Luongo wants to finish his contact as either a favour to the Canucks or to get his last millions then the Panthers can't stop him.

My feeling is that Luongo has had enough groin issues go to on LTIR now through the end of his contract. And that the NHL would be foolish to challenge that a 39+ year old goalie with such a history of groin injuries is fit to play.
 
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racerjoe

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Exactly, if a guy can go on ltir for sweat, then it really shouldn't be a problem... hell I would love to see the strombone post about the ridiculous injury.
 
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I in the Eye

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racerjoe said:
Exactly, if a guy can go on ltir for sweat, then it really shouldn't be a problem... hell I would love to see the strombone post about the ridiculous injury.
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I agree. I think the league turns a blind eye if Luongo retires... let it go down in a whimper. League proved it's point, and already punished the Canucks with the trade value. More punishment is just beating a dead horse. Groin, whiplash, anxiety... pick your retirement injury, Lui.
 

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If the Canucks are shitty and have cap space they should just reacquire Luongo and let him play out is career as a Canucks - like Ken Griffey Jr. did.
 
RandV

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Dave Lister said:
Lets be honest. Luo would veto a trade here, wouldnt even have to ask his wife first
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Though if we could somehow get Lou here for his 2nd last season and just put him on the IR, then it would normalize the cap penalty (from $8M down to $4M) if he retired the final season.
 
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RandV said:
Though if we could somehow get Lou here for his 2nd last season and just put him on the IR, then it would normalize the cap penalty (from $8M down to $4M) if he retired the final season.
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Im in the camp who isnt worried about it. The season after this is where his salary goes down to 1ish million, there will be a tiny concern that summer. Even though hes made many millions I doubt he turns down 2 more. I suspect his groin injuries catch up with him and he goes on LTIR. Maybe he develops an allergy to jockstaps
 
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