2018 Free Agent and Trade Discussion Thread: The Dogs Days are over

[SeaOfBlue]

Dont get me wrong. I like Dotchin and want him too. I just dont think he's reckless. Thats like Claiming Kadri is recless, due to two incidents.

Dotchin is a physical presence, which causes some incidents here and there. It happens. I still want him on the team though

Kadri is reckless sometimes as well. The difference I see though is 1) Kadri is much better, so you are going to have a much larger tolerance for some level of recklessness (it's a lot different if your skill would already put you on the outside looking in for our team) and 2) He does not look as deliberate as any time I have seen Dotchin play (and since he plays on rivals in both the NHL and AHL, it's not exactly a tiny sample size). Kadri makes some stupid hits, but it's not like any time someone is in a vulnerable position he tries to run through them. Dotchin just hits anything he sees as hard as he wants and worries about the consequences later. He sees someone's back turned, he'll run through you. Doesn't not matter if it is clean or not. It would be pretty amazing if this only applies to the dozens of times he's played the Leafs and Marlies and not any other team.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

I wish we had someone like that. Someone the other team had to worry about at all times because he’s such a loose cannon.

That's just going to rack up PIM's. And if he runs important players, you don't think other teams are going to start running our important players?

He's the type of guy who should not be in the NHL.

 

[Muston Atthews]

That's just going to rack up PIM's. And if he runs important players, you don't think other teams are going to start running our important players?

He's the type of guy who should not be in the NHL.

Start running our players? Our players already get run. The regular season is a grind and having a guy wearing down opponents mentally and physically is key.

I’ll tell you I’m thinking twice going into the corner with a reckless player regardless of whether I’ll draw a penalty or not

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Theres a reason I want him.

That, and the fact that he's an RD and played pretty well last season.

He was 'meh'. He wasn't great, wasn't bad. Maybe could be a passable bottom pairing guy, but it's not like the Leafs are short on those right now.

 

[Muston Atthews]

He was 'meh'. He wasn't great, wasn't bad. Maybe could be a passable bottom pairing guy, but it's not like the Leafs are short on those right now.

Leafs are very short on big physical defenders

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Start running our players? Our players already get run. The regular season is a grind and having a guy wearing down opponents mentally and physically is key.

I’ll tell you I’m thinking twice going into the corner with a reckless player regardless of whether I’ll draw a penalty or not

If physicality was so important, then Burke's model would work better than it has. Physicality is a nice trait to have in some skilled players on top of far more "key" things. If you do not have the skill to play, then it makes no difference. The Leafs have guys who are physical, but it's not their entire game. They've been getting away from those players. Which means Dotchin does not exactly fit in with where they are going.

That does not even include the issues with Dotchin and his conditioning. If he has conditioning issues now too (to the point where he is getting released), then that's another issue.

The most important thing this in terms of physicality is that you need to outwork the other team and make sure you have the body to match the effort required. If you are a 5'9", 150 lb guy, then it may be hard to outwork a 6'3", 210 lbs guy even if you try really hard. But this team has guys who are sizable, can lay out some hits when they need to, and will not be pushed around when they do engage in physical skirmishes. Also guys who will frustrate and pester guys. That's how Marchand and Kadri are so effective. "Fear" is not a key factor, and their reckless behaviour is not what makes them good. If anything it takes away from it.

 

[Muston Atthews]

If physicality was so important, then Burke's model would work better than it has. Physicality is a nice trait to have in some skilled players on top of far more "key" things. If you do not have the skill to play, then it makes no difference. The Leafs have guys who are physical, but it's not their entire game. They've been getting away from those players. Which means Dotchin does not exactly fit in with where they are going.

That does not even include the issues with Dotchin and his conditioning. If he has conditioning issues now too (to the point where he is getting released), then that's another issue.

The most important thing this in terms of physicality is that you need to outwork the other team and make sure you have the body to match the effort required. If you are a 5'9", 150 lb guy, then it may be hard to outwork a 6'3", 210 lbs guy even if you try really hard. But this team has guys who are sizable, can lay out some hits when they need to, and will not be pushed around when they do engage in physical skirmishes. Also guys who will frustrate and pester guys. That's how Marchand and Kadri are so effective. "Fear" is not a key factor, and their reckless behaviour is not what makes them good. If anything it takes away from it.

Talk about moving the goal posts. I said that I wish the team had a loose cannon on it. Tampa had Dotchin Boston Chara, McQuaid etc. I’m not saying they were so successful because of these loose cannons but it adds a presence.

 

[pspot]

A good person can show up to came out of shape. Byfuglin once showed up over 300lbs

Is there something else?

Dotchins hero chart is actually pretty solid

 

[SeaOfBlue]

A good person can show up to came out of shape. Byfuglin once showed up over 300lbs

Is there something else?

Dotchins hero chart is actually pretty solid

If it was that big of a problem, then it would have persisted. I do not think you saw Buff get benched or in Dotchin's case, bought out, because of his weight issue.

Dotchin played in sheltered role on a good team. It's not hard to have a good HERO chart in those situations.

 

[LeafChief]

Lets not forget Dotchin played with Hedman. Definitely helps is analytical numbers.

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Talk about moving the goal posts. I said that I wish the team had a loose cannon on it. Tampa had Dotchin Boston Chara, McQuaid etc. I’m not saying they were so successful because of these loose cannons but it adds a presence.

Yes but being a loose cannon is pretty much all Dotchin is good for. He's not a great defensive player. He's decent, but you can find decent for cheap every year. The only thing that really makes him stand out is the fact that he's a loose cannon. McQuaid, Chara, etc. have a strong defensive game. Maybe the size and physicality gives them another valuable quality, but even without it there is still a lot of substance. Especially for Chara.

If you want that presence, get it from Borgman or Ozhiganov. At least they have substance besides their physicality and are far more controlled with their hitting. I think people are still afraid of Ozhiganov and Borgman when they are in a tight spot.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Yes but being a loose cannon is pretty much all Dotchin is good for. He's not a great defensive player. He's decent, but you can find decent for cheap every year. The only thing that really makes him stand out is the fact that he's a loose cannon. McQuaid, Chara, etc. have a strong defensive game. Maybe the size and physicality gives them another valuable quality, but even without it there is still a lot of substance. Especially for Chara.

If you want that presence, get it from Borgman or Ozhiganov. At least they have substance besides their physicality and are far more controlled with their hitting. I think people are still afraid of Ozhiganov and Borgman when they are in a tight spot.

Borgman Id love to man the third pairing. He provides that much needed grit to our d pair and isn’t afraid to take a chance at the huge hit

 

[SeaOfBlue]

Borgman Id love to man the third pairing. He provides that much needed grit to our d pair and isn’t afraid to take a chance at the huge hit

Eventually, sure. Although I think it would be wise, especially since our LD depth is Rielly, Gardiner and Dermott as of right now, to put him on the Marlies and make him develop a PK and stronger defensive game. He needs to do more than he did in his first stint if he wants to become a legitimate 3rd pairing defenseman.

In the mean time, you are literally describing Ozhiganov. 6'2", 207 lbs. 178 hits in 201 games since being tracked (which is really skewed by last season when apparently he only had 10 in 42 games, although he also had far less ice time), when he was normally only getting 16 or 17 minutes (fewer minutes = fewer hits).



It doesn't look like he's afraid to hit to me.

 

[Muston Atthews]

Eventually, sure. Although I think it would be wise, especially since our LD depth is Rielly, Gardiner and Dermott as of right now, to put him on the Marlies and make him develop a PK and stronger defensive game. He needs to do more than he did in his first stint if he wants to become a legitimate 3rd pairing defenseman.

In the mean time, you are literally describing Ozhiganov. 6'2", 207 lbs. 178 hits in 201 games since being tracked (which is really skewed by last season when apparently he only had 10 in 42 games, although he also had far less ice time), when he was normally only getting 16 or 17 minutes (fewer minutes = fewer hits).



It doesn't look like he's afraid to hit to me.

I’m very very open to a big defenseman that will play physical. Leafs biggest need

 

[JeremyTB]

I would be good with swapping Gardiner for Braun

Reilly- Braun
Dermott- Zaitsev
Hainsey- Carrick/Holl/OZ

The Sharks wouldn't though. Makes no sense for them to make that trade. Similar contracts but Braun is under control through the 2020 season and Gardiner is a UFA after this upcoming season. Also Braun is much better defensively and they don't need more offense from their blueline.

 

[Byron Bitz]

Tampa let him go for a reason, not interested

 

[Faltorvo]

Tampa let him go for a reason, not interested

if he is not good enough for them, he is not good enough for us.

this was a material breach of contract, thats a very serious bar to hurdle to get away with that.

what ever happened has to be semi serious.

 

[Liminality]

Looks like nobody else wanted him either, wonder what the word on him is.

 

[PromisedLand]

I am still in shcok about Karlsson trade

if Leafs and Shars were to face-off in the cup finals Leafs are gonna have to deal with

XXX-Karlson
XXX-Burns
Vlasic-XXX

Thats 3 #1Ds right there......

 

[The Podium]

I am still in shcok about Karlsson trade

if Leafs and Shars were to face-off in the cup finals Leafs are gonna have to deal with

XXX-Karlson
XXX-Burns
Vlasic-XXX

Thats 3 #1Ds right there......

And San Jose has to deal with

XXXX - Matthews - XXXX
XXXX - Tavares - XXXX
XXXX - Kadri - XXXX

 

[TML1967]

Looks like nobody else wanted him either, wonder what the word on him is.

May be in a similar situation to us.
Teams may not know the extent of the problem
OR
They may be waiting to see if they can sign him for like league minimum and save the 500k. Every dollar counts

 

[613Leafer]

I am still in shcok about Karlsson trade

if Leafs and Shars were to face-off in the cup finals Leafs are gonna have to deal with

XXX-Karlson
XXX-Burns
Vlasic-XXX

Thats 3 #1Ds right there......

Maybe they move Burns up front again. I recall he did last season, but I think it was just for a few games.

 

[LeafChief]

I am still in shcok about Karlsson trade

if Leafs and Shars were to face-off in the cup finals Leafs are gonna have to deal with

XXX-Karlson
XXX-Burns
Vlasic-XXX

Thats 3 #1Ds right there......

I'd be okay with making the finals and dealing with that.

 

[IBeL34f]

And San Jose has to deal with

XXXX - Matthews - XXXX
XXXX - Tavares - XXXX
XXXX - Kadri - XXXX

XXXX - Matthews - Nylander
XXXX - Tavares - Marner
XXXX - Kadri - XXXX

Lord have mercy on any team that faces us when we're firing on all cylinders...

 

[Cor]

XXXX - Matthews - Nylander
XXXX - Tavares - Marner
XXXX - Kadri - XXXX

Lord have mercy on any team that faces us when we're firing on all cylinders...

I personally include Andreas Johnsson in there beside Kadri