Prospect Info: 2016-17 Prospects Thread (CHL, NCAA, Europe) Part II

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tigervixxxen

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You've just seen him live I assume? He's that explosive?

Affirmative

Good skater doesn't equal fast. Bigras isn't a fast skater, but he has elite mobility and is a great skater because of it.

I know that but I wouldn't call him above average either way. For a big guy he's not bad but I wouldn't call him a good skater. But my point more is when they say they want skating there's still a wide variety of what they classify as good.
 

Foppa2118

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http://bsndenver.com/alan-hepple-opens-up-about-avalanche-draft-process/

I was lucky enough to catch a sneak preview of a lot of what's said in this piece. AJ did a great job transcribing it (it was like a 14-15 minute 1-on-1 with Hepple). For prospect lovers out there, it should prove to be a fascinating read.

Very comprehensive piece by AJ, nicely done. The Denver Post never would have put that much time into an article, not ever.

Interesting that he seemingly has Josh Anderson pegged as Makar's NHL partner. He wasn't talking about dev camp, since Anderson won't be there, and he wouldn't be talking about the AHL since they are apart in development time, and Makar likely will skip the AHL when he turns pro anyway. Good that he still has confidence in Anderson who's still a bit of a dark horse to be an NHL regular, let alone partnering their 4th overall pick.

Wonder if they have any reason to believe Shyvrev might come over to play in CHL juniors, or if that was just pure hope? Seems other teams would have done their due diligence in that regard as well, and if they had something substantive to go off, they would have taken him earlier. It was a good risk either way though, and I agree with Hepple's reasoning on these later draft picks.
 

cgf

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Very comprehensive piece by AJ, nicely done. The Denver Post never would have put that much time into an article, not ever.

Interesting that he seemingly has Josh Anderson pegged as Makar's NHL partner. He wasn't talking about dev camp, since Anderson won't be there, and he wouldn't be talking about the AHL since they are apart in development time, and Makar likely will skip the AHL when he turns pro anyway. Good that he still has confidence in Anderson who's still a bit of a dark horse to be an NHL regular, let alone partnering their 4th overall pick.

Wonder if they have any reason to believe Shyvrev might come over to play in CHL juniors, or if that was just pure hope? Seems other teams would have done their due diligence in that regard as well, and if they had something substantive to go off, they would have taken him earlier. It was a good risk either way though, and I agree with Hepple's reasoning on these later draft picks.

Wouldn't Anderson hit the AHL a year from now? If Makar is one & done in college, he'd probably be in the AHL at that time to.
 

cgf

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For a player that of his size and age, I'd say he is well above average, hovering on good.

Hopefully he develops more puck skills than Siemens did, because being a great skater for his size wasn't enough to get Dunk a shot with this organization after all those injuries.
 

Foppa2118

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Wouldn't Anderson hit the AHL a year from now? If Makar is one & done in college, he'd probably be in the AHL at that time to.

It's possible, but I think it's unlikely he leaves college for the AHL. He seemed to allude to that in the media scrum too.
 

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I know expectations are fairly low on both, but what are the thoughts on Mason Geertsen and Anton Lindholm? Do they have a legit shot at the NHL or is it just good enough that they're established in the AHL? Lindholm didn't exactly embarrass himself in his brief NHL callup but expectations were set so low by the rest of the Avs blueline corps that it may have skewed things a bit.
 

cgf

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I know expectations are fairly low on both, but what are the thoughts on Mason Geertsen and Anton Lindholm? Do they have a legit shot at the NHL or is it just good enough that they're established in the AHL? Lindholm didn't exactly embarrass himself in his brief NHL callup but expectations were set so low by the rest of the Avs blueline corps that it may have skewed things a bit.

If Bigras doesn't win a spot in camp; I'd be ok with a Lindholm/Barberio platoon next to Mironov on the third pairing. Which would give us a passable d-corps if we had someone other than Zads who could handle top 4 minutes on the left, so that we used that third pairing like an actually third pairing. Since I'm assuming that, barring a Hanifin trade, we're going to sign Kulikov; I'm fine with our D for next season...at least when the key guys are healthy...

Zadorov - Johnson
Kulikov - T. Barrie
Barberio* - Mironov
Lindholm*

Would be far from a strength, but Zads - EJ were a legit 1st pairing when healthy enough to play together; Kulikov may be a bit of a hockey tard, but he can skate, defend, and hand the puck over to Barrie if Bednar takes the reign of Tyson; and as I said above, Barby/Lindy - Mironov could work as a mobile third pairing that has enough puckmoving ability not to get hemmed in their own zone and can also deliver momentum changing hits without being destroyed when forced to defend.
 

henchman21

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Post-Draft here are my top 20 prospects (and before anybody freaks, Siemens isn't on here because he is simply too old at this point):

1. Cale Makar - Everybody knows my opinion on the risk here (and I think it is a lot), but the talent speaks for itself. Every skill you could really want in a puck moving defensemen. The size and translation worries are going to be there until he proves otherwise.
2. Tyson Jost - He is a going to be a really good NHL player. I worry about his size with the role he is going to play and I don't think I am as high on his ceiling as most (1b/2a sort of center). That said, he should be a really good #2C that gives it all on both ends of the ice and puts up ~55 points.
3. Igor Shvyryov - People will think I am off the rails here, but I am very high on this kid. The offensive skill set is elite. He is a hard worker and puts in a really good effort defensively. I really, really hope he gets over to NA. That and how he transitions to NA physicality and ice are my only real questions. He could be a huge get.
4. Nicolas Meloche - Plays a very pro friendly game, mean as hell, plus skater (still needs some work), and has a bit of offensive punch to his game. I think he is a real solid bet to become a middle pairing D with upside for more. He should probably get a full year in the AHL, but he is closer than some believe.
5. Chris Bigras - I'm still a big, big fan of his game. Last year was a bump in the road for a few reasons, and this year he has to come into camp in tip top shape and impress the coaching staff... or I could see him being trade bait.
6. JT Compher - There isn't much to not like here and he will graduate in the fall. His overall skill level and how it translates to the NHL will determine if he is more of a 2nd or 3rd liner. He should be a really good middle 6 player for a while.
7. Conor Timmins - I'm a very big fan of this kid, and really this 5-7 group could be put in any order and I would say too much. Skating needs work, but considering how much it progressed last summer when he worked with his own skating coach... I expect the rest to get worked out. Very smart player with a decent amount of offensive upside. Biggest worry is he is more of a rusher than a passer. If he is held to a strict structure, he might struggle.
8. AJ Greer - Only reason he is this low is simple additions. He really flashed his potential early in the year. If he can be that player consistently, he can be an impact top 6 PF. If he can't he should still make the NHL, but in a lesser role. I think he should spend another half to full season in the AHL to work on that consistency.
9. Cam Morrison - I think the college transition was a little rougher than expected, but he came out on the other side alright. Still produced around where I thought he should. I'm expecting a breakout season for him being around a PPG player and being a fixture on the top line. Needs to work on his agility, and slowing the game down with the puck on his stick (very bull in the China shop mentality). I think there is a lot of promise here for a middle 6 goal scoring forward with some PF tendencies.
10. JC Beaudin - This might ruffle some feathers here, but I think he struggled becoming the 'go-to' guy in RN. A bit like Morrison, I think he came out on the other side okay and thrived in the playoffs. That gives me hope, but it might take a couple pro years for the offense to really come around at a higher level. Tempered expectations for his role in SA should be had. A 30-35 point season while establishing himself as a middle 6 center. As smart as the kid is and with his skating ability, I think a NHL role will be carved out. Just more of a question on which line.
11. Anton Lindholm - I think his ceiling is pretty limited (4/5 at best, but a guy you really want as a 5), but he plays a game I really appreciate. It is very quiet, yet very effective. Little to no offensive upside, but will move the puck well. If only he was a bit bigger...
12. Andrei Mironov - He could easily be up this list. Seems to be a modern throwback sort of D. Great size, nasty to play against, keeps it simple. It doesn't seem there is much offense here, but if he can play a safe and physical game next to a puck mover I think he has a good shot at a bottom 2 pairing role.
13. Rocco Grimaldi - Yeah he is tiny, and I still don't have a lot of confidence in a long-term NHL future... but he has earned a shot at a top 9 role. Very skilled.
14. Spencer Martin - Probably one of the more controversial placements. He started off the year great... got called up and it all fell apart (FTR I don't blame him a ton for this). I want to see a lot more consistency, and I don't think he should be called up outside of an emergency. Let him have a full year in the AHL.
15. Nick Henry - The shoulder issue gives me a bit more hope for him. His struggles in a bigger role could be attributed a bit to that. I like that out of all the wing prospects, he is probably the most versatile. I could see him being a 3rd liner.
16. Denis Smirnov - His frame worries me more than his height, but there is no doubting his skill and scoring potential. Should compete for the Hobey Baker next season and joining the AHL club in 18-19. How he deals with the added physicality will be huge.
17. Nate Clurman - Most of what I have on him is 2nd hand, but I get rave reviews from people I trust and I like what (little) I have seen. Phenomenal skill set and a real good frame to go with it. I'm stoked that he is going to Tri-City and I think he has a real shot of having a 40+ point season there.
18. Josh Anderson - I think he is a bit underrated and probably even a bit low on here. A true throwback D. Puck skills will be an issue and the one that very well could hold him back from a NHL role.
19. Sergei Boikov - I think once he got his feet wet he was pretty damn solid. Not much offense, but moves the puck solidly enough. Good size and can play a physical game. Not sure he has long-term NHL chops, but he should be a really good D for SA next year.
20. Nicky Leivermann - Small, but talented kid. Excellent character and work ethic. Moving up to Penticton will only be good for him next year. He needs the intermediate step to clean up his defensive game and work on his reads, but he could shoot up this list real quick.

HM: Gustav Olhaver - I'm really hoping things just clicked for him... He was beyond terrible here in NA, but seemed to rebound quite well last year. A forward with his size should be given the full allotment of time before giving up on. If he is still progressing, I think he should get a contract before his rights fully expire. At least there are 2 seasons.
HM: Adam Werner - Stole the starting job and then fell back to earth. Hopefully he can find some consistency and build upon the early part of last seasons. The Avs really kinda need him to pan out into something. The goalie depth is bad.
 

Pierce Hawthorne

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^That's a great read.

I really feel like we have 20 prospects right now with legitimate NHL potential and I think that's the first time in years(Maybe even over a decade) since that has been the case.



And with potentially only Compher/Mironov graduating next year(And maybe Jost/Bigras) along with another Top 5-10 pick at least next year, that prospect pool is only going to get deeper and deeper.
 

AvsFan2123

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Nate Clurman is going to play in the USHL and Igor Shvyryov has at least expressed some interest/being open to playing in NA if I understood that Hepple/AJ talk?
 

tigervixxxen

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^That's a great read.

I really feel like we have 20 prospects right now with legitimate NHL potential and I think that's the first time in years(Maybe even over a decade) since that has been the case.



And with potentially only Compher/Mironov graduating next year(And maybe Jost/Bigras) along with another Top 5-10 pick at least next year, that prospect pool is only going to get deeper and deeper.

I was going over our list for the polls and we will have a legitimate list through 20 at least. We gotta save some of the debate for the polls ;) And going by the guidelines we've used Siemens still counts because of the September birthday but a lot of others are too old now like Grimaldi.

On Beaudin, I don't agree he didn't hold up as the go to guy. He had the 8 point weekend in Nov and won one of the Q 3 stars. He was named team's best offensive player in December and that's when Fortin and Fontaine each had like 2 points so Beaudin won them some games that month for sure. His production did dip a bit in the spring. Not sure why, if it was just team related or injuries getting to them or he had a mild injury himself but like you said he came up big in the playoffs. I don't really disagree with your assessment of his upside, Hench, I just think that places him higher IMO.
 
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henchman21

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Fair point on Grimaldi/Siemens... a difference I see is Grimaldi is just leaving his elc, Siemens is going into his 3rd contract.
 

Pierce Hawthorne

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I was going over our list for the polls and we will have a legitimate list through 20 at least. We gotta save some of the debate for the polls ;) And going by the guidelines we've used Siemens still counts because of the September birthday but a lot of others are too old now like Grimaldi.

Yeah, I tried to do a quick Top 15 for my personal viewings just after the draft and quickly realize we've finally got some depth, was very hard to rank them after the first ~12 or so.

Very much looking forward to those rankings. Excited to see where a few guys in particular end up.
 

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It's possible, but I think it's unlikely he leaves college for the AHL. He seemed to allude to that in the media scrum too.

A lot of people said the same thing about Jost and Compher. Although I would agree that Makar probably needs two years in College.

I hate it when NHL teams bring in these skinny kids who haven't developed enough physically, and it results in players like Ryan Murray and RNH who are constantly injured.

I highly doubt they'd tell him hes going straight to the AHL anyways. They'll tell him he'll be given a legit shot to make the team out of camp like I'm sure they did with Compher, Jost, and Mikko.
 

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Great write up hench. Really enjoyed what you wrote on Clurman especially that it is mainly coming from guys you really trust. That guy has always been my dark horse since the Avs picked him. It has been a while since the Avs had success in the late rounds. I think Clurman will change that but with the addition of our new dmen along with what we already had in the farm will make the competition even better on the back end. I think the Avs is quickly turning what was previously a weakness into hopefully a strength.
 

S E P H

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Even if Makar has more potential, I am going to lose a lot of faith in you guys if he wins over Jost in the real poll. Just because a player might have more potential, doesn't mean he has the tools or development to reach it over someone who has the attributes and characteristics of Jost. Jost is #1 AINEC with no hyperbole here.
 

Foppa2118

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A lot of people said the same thing about Jost and Compher. Although I would agree that Makar probably needs two years in College.

I hate it when NHL teams bring in these skinny kids who haven't developed enough physically, and it results in players like Ryan Murray and RNH who are constantly injured.

I highly doubt they'd tell him hes going straight to the AHL anyways. They'll tell him he'll be given a legit shot to make the team out of camp like I'm sure they did with Compher, Jost, and Mikko.

I know some people thought Compher would jump to the NHL, but I went on record saying he wasn't ready physically yet after seeing him in the Worlds. He was also a 2nd round pick so he didn't quite have the same clout as a 1st rounder.

Jost on the other hand is really close. I'm more concerned with him working on the explosiveness in his skating than his physicality. His skating will allow him to play his game. Similar to Makar I think it's possible he starts down in the AHL next year, but I think that's unlikely. Both are high 1st rounders, highly talented, and highly committed to working on their weaknesses physically.

The thing that might make Makar start in the AHL is the same thing that made Barrie stay down there. He needed to work on his defensive positioning, and more importantly he wasn't playing his game in the NHL. He needed to grab the puck and go, instead of overthinking things. I think Makar will be more confident on the latter part, and if he's not he won't sign yet.
 

Tommy Shelby

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Even if Makar has more potential, I am going to lose a lot of faith in you guys if he wins over Jost in the real poll. Just because a player might have more potential, doesn't mean he has the tools or development to reach it over someone who has the attributes and characteristics of Jost. Jost is #1 AINEC with no hyperbole here.

Agreed. But shiny new toy syndrome will overshadow actual NHL experience and proven development I bet.
 

cgf

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Even if Makar has more potential, I am going to lose a lot of faith in you guys if he wins over Jost in the real poll. Just because a player might have more potential, doesn't mean he has the tools or development to reach it over someone who has the attributes and characteristics of Jost. Jost is #1 AINEC with no hyperbole here.

Jost is more polished and closer to NHL ready, but so is Bigras. Does that mean Bigras is a better prospect than Makar, Meloche & Timmins to?
 

Gigantor The Goalie

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I'm a little bit worried that there's only really one goalie prospect on the list. Especially losing picks it just feels like the pipeline is running a bit dry.

In fairness to Werner/Kvaca I'll say it's less running dry and more running into unknown territory with the two goalies we have now in our "amateur" system. With two goalies there you can't say we don't have depth. You can say it's unknown depth and I'll agree with you. I'll also echo Hench and say Werner ending up with the worst SV% for starters in the Allsvenskan isn't the best look either. Not sure if it matters much but both were also the 3rd string goalie for their WJC teams last year so at least they aren't completely unknown.

Will I vote more than one goalie into the Top 20? Probably not. If I do I think I'll lean more towards Kvaca as he had the more successful season but honestly I view Werner/Kvaca to be on the same level right now.
 

henchman21

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Even if Makar has more potential, I am going to lose a lot of faith in you guys if he wins over Jost in the real poll. Just because a player might have more potential, doesn't mean he has the tools or development to reach it over someone who has the attributes and characteristics of Jost. Jost is #1 AINEC with no hyperbole here.

I'm probably lower on Jost than most because I see him 'just' as a 1b/2a ceiling player with a 2C likelihood. To me that is a fair evaluation of the kid, and fairly realistic. I just don't see that rating out better than a kid who has a much higher ceiling (though a much lower floor too).
 
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