Prospect Info: 2016-17 Prospects Thread (CHL, NCAA, Europe) Part II

[The Merchant]

Anyone who's seen them closely able to answer this.....what's the advantage of taking Makar instead of Heiskanen if both are available? From what I understand, Heiskanen has the safer game while still having mobility and also plays in a safer league whereas with Makar, there's a huge risk that he has a drop-off against better opposition.

Is his high rating because his raw talent level is just higher than Heiskanen or something?

Well really it just boils down to whether you'd rather have Lidstrom or Karlsson

 

[cgf]

Anyone who's seen them closely able to answer this.....what's the advantage of taking Makar instead of Heiskanen if both are available? From what I understand, Heiskanen has the safer game while still having mobility and also plays in a safer league whereas with Makar, there's a huge risk that he has a drop-off against better opposition.

Is his high rating because his raw talent level is just higher than Heiskanen or something?

Heiskanen needs to prove that pushing the play with the puck on his stick comes naturally to him when he isn't dominating vastly inferior talent at the U18s. Whereas we know that that's Makar's game, even if we don't know how his game will work at higher levels.

That's the big difference, some folks aren't sure that Heiskanen has the upside to score more than 30 points regularly; whereas if Makar doesn't bust he should be breaking 40-50 regularly.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

Heiskanen needs to prove that pushing the play with the puck on his stick comes naturally to him when he isn't dominating vastly inferior talent at the U18s. Whereas we know that that's Makar's game, even if we don't know how his game will work at higher levels.

That's the big difference, some folks aren't sure that Heiskanen has the upside to score more than 30 points regularly; whereas if Makar doesn't bust he should be breaking 40-50 regularly.

Heiskanen, regardless of point production, is still the type of player that can play on the top pairing. Makar is not that type of player.

 

[cgf]

Heiskanen, regardless of point production, is still the type of player that can play on the top pairing. Makar is not that type of player.

Makar's fans would argue that he absolutely could be that type of player. His size is adequate, his skating is exceptional, he's extremely smart, and has a skilled stick.

 

[Ivan13]

Heiskanen needs to prove that pushing the play with the puck on his stick comes naturally to him when he isn't dominating vastly inferior talent at the U18s. Whereas we know that that's Makar's game, even if we don't know how his game will work at higher levels.

That's the big difference, some folks aren't sure that Heiskanen has the upside to score more than 30 points regularly; whereas if Makar doesn't bust he should be breaking 40-50 regularly.

So Heskinen needs to prove himslef because he only dominated vastly inferior U18, but Makar doesn't, even though the only league he dominated is essentially beer league compared to where Miro plays? Makes sense.

 

[AllAboutAvs]

Makar's fans would argue that he absolutely could be that type of player. His size is adequate, his skating is exceptional, he's extremely smart, and has a skilled stick.

I got to find me one of those.

 

[cgf]

So Heskinen needs to prove himslef because he only dominated vastly inferior U18, but Makar doesn't, even though the only league he dominated is essentially beer league compared to where Miro plays? Makes sense.

It's not about proving themselves as players; but proving that that puck-driving style of play comes naturally, and that Heiskanen won't be like Bigras. Where we're many years down the road and it's still a little unnatural for Woody to push the action constantly instead of just taking what is given to him, even at the AHL level. The U18 was a big step for the young Finn because he showed he can play that way; now we just need to see him play that way for a season and continue to thrive.

Makar has a ton to prove himself...and that's why I prefer taking Heiskanen...but with Makar we know that he's going to be looking to drive the action every time the puck touches his stick. What he needs to prove is that he can continue to do that and shine when the talent gap between him & his opponents gets smaller; and that he'll be able to learn to defend against those more talented players successfully.

Personally, I'm still hoping for Heiskanen because I think that it's important for us to get a good hit in this draft, while taking our shot at the huge payoff of a franchise #1 next year...barring one of my dream duchene trades happening and changing everything...

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

It's not about proving themselves as players; but proving that that puck-driving style of play comes naturally, and that Heiskanen won't be like Bigras. Where we're many years down the road and it's still a little unnatural for Woody to push the action constantly instead of just taking what is given to him, even at the AHL level. The U18 was a big step for the young Finn because he showed he can play that way; now we just need to see him play that way for a season and continue to thrive.

Makar has a ton to prove himself...and that's why I prefer taking Heiskanen...but with Makar we know that he's going to be looking to drive the action every time the puck touches his stick. What he needs to prove is that he can continue to do that and shine when the talent gap between him & his opponents gets smaller; and that he'll be able to learn to defend against those more talented players successfully.

Personally, I'm still hoping for Heiskanen because I think that it's important for us to get a good hit in this draft, while taking our shot at the huge payoff of a franchise #1 next year...barring one of my dream duchene trades happening and changing everything...

So many Dman would be able to play that way in that weak of a league.

 

[tigervixxxen]

This isn't the right place for this convo, let's pick the guy first.

 

[Freudian]

Avs will have three players at Team Canada's u20 development camp. Jost, Makar and Timmins.

 

[RockLobster]

http://bsndenver.com/alan-hepple-opens-up-about-avalanche-draft-process/

I was lucky enough to catch a sneak preview of a lot of what's said in this piece. AJ did a great job transcribing it (it was like a 14-15 minute 1-on-1 with Hepple). For prospect lovers out there, it should prove to be a fascinating read.

 

[henchman21]

The Shvyryov part is interesting. If they can get him to the CHL... watch out!

 

[RockLobster]

The Shvyryov part is interesting. If they can get him to the CHL... watch out!

That and Hepple seemingly confirming where Clurman is playing next year were definitely pretty good reads.

 

[henchman21]

That and Hepple seemingly confirming where Clurman is playing next year were definitely pretty good reads.

Yep... been rumored and pushed for by Tri-City for a while, but yeah the confirmation is good. Very happy that route is being taken, and Noreen should do a great job with the kid.

 

[CalderKing21]

The Shvyryov part is interesting. If they can get him to the CHL... watch out!

It is more than interesting...that could be friggin huge down the line. He is a seriously talented player and I think he is going to be my irrational Avs prospect for this year.
I shouldn't expect him to be great or anything...but I will.

 

[StayAtHomeAv]

http://bsndenver.com/alan-hepple-opens-up-about-avalanche-draft-process/

I was lucky enough to catch a sneak preview of a lot of what's said in this piece. AJ did a great job transcribing it (it was like a 14-15 minute 1-on-1 with Hepple). For prospect lovers out there, it should prove to be a fascinating read.

I don't like to hear the "skating is first and foremost" part. It's important, but shouldn't be the main priority. I also think he is jumping the gun with the new generation of DMen talk. He seems to think it's all about how you play with the puck, but the top guys still play good D too.

Good to hear that Henry's injury is expected to not be a problem.

The comments about Kvaca are hilarious. Sounds like they picked him because he is an overager who has a net to play in in a men's league. That's some high level scouting right there. (I'm sure they scouted him. Their explination is just funny)

Love to hear that about Shvyrev. Please get that kid over here.

I'm really not liking their approach to offense vs D. Sounds like they think they can just teach defense to everyone.

I like hearing about how they use analytics on which types of players are more likely to pan out in the later rounds.

Good to hear him talk about patience with development, even Jost.

Still talking about pairing shutdown guys with offensive Dmen - I'm really not a fan of this approach. Need more versatility in the individuals.

 

[S E P H]

The Shvyryov part is interesting. If they can get him to the CHL... watch out!

But remember just because they draft him in the import draft doesn't necessarily mean he's going to come over. I still think he's going to be KHL/VHL this year. That won't stop a CHL teams' for getting his rights, but Kootenay Ice drafted Kostin first overall in 2016 and there is little to no chance he will come over.

 

[henchman21]

But remember just because they draft him in the import draft doesn't necessarily mean he's going to come over. I still think he's going to be KHL/VHL this year. That won't stop a CHL for getting his rights, but Kootenay Ice drafted Kostin first overall in 2016 and there is little to no chance he will come over.

Oh I know it is far from a sure thing. Just the way Hepple worded that was more interesting. If teams are contacting him about him coming over, and Hepple is talking about it... that might be a real positive sign of him coming over.

 

[Tommy Shelby]

Some day, hopefully, management and our scouting staff will realize that almost every single top D-man in the NHL is a 2-way D, plays a solid game in both ends but takes care of their own end first.

Yeah skating and puck movement is great, but it just seems to me like they're doing some major overcorrection after watching our inept group of D fumble and bumble their way up and down the ice for years.

 

[CobraAcesS]

Some day, hopefully, management and our scouting staff will realize that almost every single top D-man in the NHL is a 2-way D, plays a solid game in both ends but takes care of their own end first.

Yeah skating and puck movement is great, but it just seems to me like they're doing some major overcorrection after watching our inept group of D fumble and bumble their way up and down the ice for years.

I'm not that worried because they are prioritizing IQ more than talking about pure offensive ability. That should help translate to better play on both sides of the ice.

 

[McMetal]

Some day, hopefully, management and our scouting staff will realize that almost every single top D-man in the NHL is a 2-way D, plays a solid game in both ends but takes care of their own end first.

Yeah skating and puck movement is great, but it just seems to me like they're doing some major overcorrection after watching our inept group of D fumble and bumble their way up and down the ice for years.

Overcorrection is the exact word I would use. With Siemens, they were never able to teach him the puck skills to make him passable in the NHL. Now they're trying to build an elite defenseman from the other direction. I think it's premature to look at Siemens and conclude that puck skills can't be taught, but good defense can.

 

[EdAVSfan]

Get me smart hockey players who can skate all day.

Most players are ineffective because they're either dumb or can't skate.

IMO it's always easier to teach the fundamentals of playing defense than it is to teach a dumb hockey player how to create offence.

 

[tigervixxxen]

He called Anderson a good skater so his definition of good speed is a bit different than what y'all might think good speed is.

And Makar's first couple steps remind me of mackinnon.

 

[Balthazar]

Makar's first couple steps remind me of mackinnon.

You've just seen him live I assume? He's that explosive?

 

[henchman21]

He called Anderson a good skater so his definition of good speed is a bit different than what y'all might think good speed is.

And Makar's first couple steps remind me of mackinnon.

Good skater doesn't equal fast. Bigras isn't a fast skater, but he has elite mobility and is a great skater because of it.