You asked for it, here is your All Purpose San Jose Sharks Offseason Thread

[Nolan11]

Someone brought up Richards and Carter where you get both ends of the spectrum. Carter is OK and Richards is not. Richards' skills are quickly diminishing. It also has to do with the organizational response to the player. Do they address it and how do they address it? Are they effective in addressing it?

Different orgs handle nightlife differently. Both the Kings and Ducks played their home games in the playoffs like road games in their winning years, checking their guys into hotels even when at home. It tended to curtail the nightlife although there was still entertainment at those hotels, just a little more supervised.

My guess on Seto is that the Sharks tried to modify his behavior and failed repeatedly long before he was traded. Seto is far from unique in having issues in this regard.

Very good post. I expect your guess is spot on.
(Still hope Seto has good year for flames, but he is a flames player now, time to change subjects)

 

[SactoShark]

The Sharks signed Seto for 3 years before dealing him. I don't think they had any problem with him at all. They just got a player in return they needed more.

 

[SJeasy]

The Sharks signed Seto for 3 years before dealing him. I don't think they had any problem with him at all. They just got a player in return they needed more.

GMs don't have much of a choice on signing players. Frequently potential replacements even if some are available as FAs are not a certain thing. There are 29 other teams. And the question becomes is if there is any prospect who could do as well as the questionable signing. What behavior does do is put the player's name front and center as trade bait when other players are available. A lot of problem players get paid, but find themselves on a cross country tour in terms of who they play for. When the behavior is reasonable, their residence tends to be stable. As an example, look at how often Guerin was moved. Tkachuk is another. Roenick . . . It's not all partying behavior either, sometimes it is work habits and other things.

 

[Alwalys]

How quickly we forget, Seto was a good signing at the time, really good with hometown discount. Burns was just someone you can't turn down.

 

[hohosaregood]

How quickly we forget, Seto was a good signing at the time, really good with hometown discount. Burns was just someone you can't turn down.

It wasn't a great signing at the time. DW was paying for potential at the time and he gave Seto a better deal than he probably would've gotten elsewhere. Seto's point totals were going down year by year and yet he just had a magnificent playoff and that's all he had going for him.

 

[Alwalys]

It wasn't a great signing at the time. DW was paying for potential at the time and he gave Seto a better deal than he probably would've gotten elsewhere. Seto's point totals were going down year by year and yet he just had a magnificent playoff and that's all he had going for him.

Dude, what? That's rewriting history. His points were UP in his contract year and an offer sheet would absolutely have been for more. It wasn't a fleecing so it didn't satisfy those who only cheer fleecings, but it was a good signing at a good price.

 

[Barrie22]

Dude, what? That's rewriting history. His points were UP in his contract year and an offer sheet would absolutely have been for more. It wasn't a fleecing so it didn't satisfy those who only cheer fleecings, but it was a good signing at a good price.

65, 36, 41 were his point totals leading up to the new contract. Games played were 82, 70, 72.

His points did not come up enough to justify being paid a 3 million cap. He was being paid on the hopes that he could be closer to the 60 point totals then the 30 points.

Pretty steep price for what he was producing. Getting paid close to 100,000 dollars per point.

 

[Helistin]

Pretty steep price for what he was producing. Getting paid close to 100,000 dollars per point.

Hmm, lets see. 3 million / 41 = 73170 dollars per point

Pavelski 6 million / 79 = 75949 dollars per point
Marleau 6,667 million / 70 = 95238 dollars per point
Thornton 6,750 million / 76 = 88815 dollars per point
Burns 5,760 million / 48 = 120000 dollars per point

Apart from elc's Sharks forwards seem to be pretty steep for what they are producing. Trade those bums and bring back Seto , he had the best dollars per point ratio!

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

Someone brought up Richards and Carter where you get both ends of the spectrum. Carter is OK and Richards is not. Richards' skills are quickly diminishing. It also has to do with the organizational response to the player. Do they address it and how do they address it? Are they effective in addressing it?

Different orgs handle nightlife differently. Both the Kings and Ducks played their home games in the playoffs like road games in their winning years, checking their guys into hotels even when at home. It tended to curtail the nightlife although there was still entertainment at those hotels, just a little more supervised.

My guess on Seto is that the Sharks tried to modify his behavior and failed repeatedly long before he was traded. Seto is far from unique in having issues in this regard.

I'd take Richards "diminishing" skills, he has what 2 cups and 1 more finals appearance in the last 4 years?

 

[SJeasy]

I'd take Richards "diminishing" skills, he has what 2 cups and 1 more finals appearance in the last 4 years?

And the resting on his laurels is getting extreme. No thanks.

Just because someone is on a winner, doesn't mean that they are contributing their share. See Burish as an extreme example. It pays a GM to discern between guys like Ladd and guys like Burish who were both part of the same winner.

 

[Bizz]

I'd take Richards "diminishing" skills, he has what 2 cups and 1 more finals appearance in the last 4 years?

If you were a GM with that kinda thought process, you'd be fired in an instant.

 

[Juxtaposer]

If you were a GM with that kinda thought process, you'd be fired in an instant.

Yep, that's the same thought process that brought Nik Wallin, Colin White, etc. to the Sharks.

 

[Alwalys]

Hmm, lets see. 3 million / 41 = 73170 dollars per point

Pavelski 6 million / 79 = 75949 dollars per point
Marleau 6,667 million / 70 = 95238 dollars per point
Thornton 6,750 million / 76 = 88815 dollars per point
Burns 5,760 million / 48 = 120000 dollars per point

Apart from elc's Sharks forwards seem to be pretty steep for what they are producing. Trade those bums and bring back Seto , he had the best dollars per point ratio!

Lol thanks for laying that out. It's funny how people can justify anything and literally say the opposite of the truth, and be so sure of it.

 

[Coily]

Yep, that's the same thought process that brought Nik Wallin, Colin White, etc. to the Sharks.

I think Burish was the worst of that category.

 

[DarrylshutzSydor]

Yep, that's the same thought process that brought Nik Wallin, Colin White, etc. to the Sharks.

So you're saying its a coincidence the guy has 2 cups and 3 finals appearances in the past 4 years?

oh AND has been part of 2 come from behind to win 4 games to 3 in the playoffs!

 

[Juxtaposer]

So you're saying its a coincidence the guy has 2 cups and 3 finals appearances in the past 4 years?

oh AND has been part of 2 come from behind to win 4 games to 3 in the playoffs!

Jordan Nolan had also has two Cups and come from behind to win a 3-0 series.

Total coincidence. Replace Richards with any decent player and the Kings still win both Cups.

 

[Episkey]

So you're saying its a coincidence the guy has 2 cups and 3 finals appearances in the past 4 years?

He was on very good teams. His numbers have been declining since his first cup win and he is just terrible now.

 

[OrrNumber4]

So you're saying its a coincidence the guy has 2 cups and 3 finals appearances in the past 4 years?

oh AND has been part of 2 come from behind to win 4 games to 3 in the playoffs!

Its HFboards...everything is coincidence!

That being said...Richards is still a player I would target, but not as a premier forward. He has great intangibles, a big-game player, and can wear many different hats. On his own, he's a 2nd-line player. That is the ideal bottom-6 forward. I'd rather pay him 6 million that pay Adam Burish 2 million.

 

[Bizz]

So you're saying its a coincidence the guy has 2 cups and 3 finals appearances in the past 4 years?

oh AND has been part of 2 come from behind to win 4 games to 3 in the playoffs!

2 Cups? I thought we were talking about Brad Richards. Not Mike Richards.

edit: Mike Richards' skills aren't diminishing, that's what got me confused.

 

[Sleepy]

Jordan Nolan had also has two Cups and come from behind to win a 3-0 series.

Total coincidence. Replace Richards with any decent player and the Kings still win both Cups.

2nd one yes, 1st one he was a pretty good contributor IMO.

 

[Juxtaposer]

2 Cups? I thought we were talking about Brad Richards. Not Mike Richards.

edit: Mike Richards' skills aren't diminishing, that's what got me confused.

Brad Richards is a better player than Mike Richards. If you don't think Mike Richards is declining, you seriously need to watch a game.

2nd one yes, 1st one he was a pretty good contributor IMO.

I think that's pretty fair.


But yeah, the Kings couldn't have won without superclutch fourth line deadweight. Without him, they wouldn't have won. Just like without Burish the Hawks wouldn't have won, am I right ON4?

 

[Bizz]

If you don't think Mike Richards is declining, you seriously need to watch a game.

I think it's all mental with him. He isn't being pressured to perform like he was in Philly. He won his Cups and has a long term deal, what motivation is there for him to give 110% each game?

 

[magic school bus]

How quickly we forget, Seto was a good signing at the time, really good with hometown discount. Burns was just someone you can't turn down.

It wasn't a hometown discount.

 

[Juxtaposer]

I think it's all mental with him. He isn't being pressured to perform like he was in Philly. He won his Cups and has a long term deal, what motivation is there for him to give 110% each game?

His body is breaking down. He's not a big guy but he played a very physical style early in his career and it's catching up with him. I would also guess his lifestyle is taking a toll as well.

And before this year, when he declined hugely, he had only won one Cup.

 

[hohosaregood]

His body is breaking down. He's not a big guy but he played a very physical style early in his career and it's catching up with him. I would also guess his lifestyle is taking a toll as well.

And before this year, when he declined hugely, he had only won one Cup.

I've heard he doesn't give a damn about his conditioning and it's finally catching up to him. Supposing he actually did go through with his conditioning seriously, he could return to form but I wouldn't hold my breath