Well That Was Fun...

ChiHawk21

Registered User
Jan 15, 2011
7,310
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The only really funny is the fact that you tried to claim coaching was not the issue. It is is like you have no idea what you are talking about....

Outdated offensive, defensive, and special teams systems will get you what we saw this season. If you don't understand the systems just do a quick search and you will find out what each is based on and why they are outdated. This is not complicated stuff at this point.
thinking quenneville and the coaching staff forgot how to coach overnight at the same time as losing a lot of talented players while the best players declined is a HELLL of a coincidence. I also said there isnt anyone out there that i would rather have right now while qs under contract. Would you rather pay 6 mil to q and pay another coach like vigneault? It doesnt make any sense for the organization. Quenneville is not the problem. The hawks losing talent and filling it with subpar players is the problem. Coaching may be a issue but it is not the issue and right now isnt the time to gamble away the 2nd best coach in the history of hockey because fans think hes lost the room because of one season.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,084
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Chicago 'Burbs
thinking quenneville and the coaching staff forgot how to coach overnight at the same time as losing a lot of talented players while the best players declined is a HELLL of a coincidence. I also said there isnt anyone out there that i would rather have right now while qs under contract. Would you rather pay 6 mil to q and pay another coach like vigneault? It doesnt make any sense for the organization. Quenneville is not the problem. The hawks losing talent and filling it with subpar players is the problem. Coaching may be a issue but it is not the issue and right now isnt the time to gamble away the 2nd best coach in the history of hockey because fans think hes lost the room because of one season.

This is why no one can take you serious. You keep repeating this over and over. Not one person is saying they forgot how to coach. They're saying the NHL has adapted to their systems, and the Hawks coaches have not adapted their systems to counter that... That's not forgetting how to coach, that's being stubborn, and refusing to understand that what used to work with far more talented/younger guys, will no longer work with those same guys pushing 30 years old. :shakehead
 

ChiHawk21

Registered User
Jan 15, 2011
7,310
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u keep saying the nhl adapted. when did this happen? They won the west last year they were 2nd best odds to win the cup last year.

The same offseason/season that we lost 4 all star players and 2 HOF players regressed terribly.

but its the coaches fault :huh:
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
thinking quenneville and the coaching staff forgot how to coach overnight at the same time as losing a lot of talented players while the best players declined is a HELLL of a coincidence. I also said there isnt anyone out there that i would rather have right now while qs under contract. Would you rather pay 6 mil to q and pay another coach like vigneault? It doesnt make any sense for the organization. Quenneville is not the problem. The hawks losing talent and filling it with subpar players is the problem. Coaching may be a issue but it is not the issue and right now isnt the time to gamble away the 2nd best coach in the history of hockey because fans think hes lost the room because of one season.

How are you not getting this? It is not that they forgot how to coach. Their systems are outdated and there is a book on how to attack/defend them. Anyone with eyes that work should be able to see this. Coaching was the biggest issue with this team. How can you properly evaluate talent when the coaching staff is not putting them in the position to succeed? HINT: You can't.

Issues with the Hawks this season:
1. Coaching
2. Crow getting hurt.
3. Defensive depth
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
u keep saying the nhl adapted. when did this happen? They won the west last year they were 2nd best odds to win the cup last year.

This started happening in 2016 and has progressively become much worse.

They won the west but the GM openly stated they were not as good as their record and the team was completely unprepared for the playoffs (this is on the coach) and then Q failed to make obvious changes.

Odds mean jack shit.
 

coolhand

Registered User
Jan 20, 2016
2,624
1,937
Streamwood, IL
This started happening in 2016 and has progressively become much worse.

They won the west but the GM openly stated they were not as good as their record and the team was completely unprepared for the playoffs (this is on the coach) and then Q failed to make obvious changes.

Odds mean jack ****.

Hawks got GREAT goaltending last season. Darling was outstanding when Crow went out. They were good until the last 2 weeks of the season and something happened. They just seemed to give up as a team. Then ran into a hot team in Nashville, even though they dominated Game 1 they couldn't score. I put that on Q. He never did adjust our game to match the Preds.
 
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ChiHawk21

Registered User
Jan 15, 2011
7,310
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How are you not getting this? It is not that they forgot how to coach. Their systems are outdated and there is a book on how to attack/defend them. Anyone with eyes that work should be able to see this. Coaching was the biggest issue with this team. How can you properly evaluate talent when the coaching staff is not putting them in the position to succeed? HINT: You can't.

Issues with the Hawks this season:
1. Coaching
2. Crow getting hurt.
3. Defensive depth

crazy timing for the book to come out. Ill take quenneville you take forsberg berube and glass SMH
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,084
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Chicago 'Burbs
u keep saying the nhl adapted. when did this happen? They won the west last year they were 2nd best odds to win the cup last year.

The same offseason/season that we lost 4 all star players and 2 HOF players regressed terribly.

but its the coaches fault :huh:

It has been happening the past couple years going back to 2016. The game has gone to the idea of D skating the puck out of the zone(highly mobile, PMDs quarterbacking the rush), and a high offensive tempo(more wide open style), of which Q refuses to adjust to. Evidenced by his misuse of just about every Dman Bowman has brought in the past year or two. He still tries to use the stretch pass way too much. All the opposition has to do is clog the neutral zone by playing man to man in it, only one forechecker deep on the D, and the stretch pass is eliminated as an option.

They won the West last year on the backs of numerous comeback wins, elite(Vezina caliber) goaltending from Crow, and amazing backup goaltending from Darling, and luck.

As for the loss of players... Hammer was worse than Murphy this year. If you watched him play the last third of the season last year, and any this year, it's obvious he has fallen off a cliff. Panarin hurts, no arguing there, especially with Saad having a terrible(career worst) season this year. Toews was bad. Keith had a bad year also. I don't expect Saad or Keith to play that poorly next year. They'll progress back up to their mean. Toews is a question mark at this point. But we've seen a few older guys revitalize their careers this season, maybe Toews can do it too.

The systems employed by Q exposed the hell out of the D. If the D were allowed to use their best assets(their speed/ability to skate the puck out) then this year probably would have gone quite a bit different, even with Crow out.

I, and others have tried to explain all this, but you just keep screaming about how we think the "coaches forgot how to coach."
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
Hawks got GREAT goaltending last season. Darling was outstanding when Crow went out. They were good until the last 2 weeks of the season and something happened. They just seemed to give up as a team. Then ran into a hot team in Nashville, even though they dominated Game 1 they couldn't score. I put that on Q. He never did adjust our game to match the Preds.

AA getting hurt killed the team last season.
 

ChiHawk21

Registered User
Jan 15, 2011
7,310
1,552
It has been happening the past couple years going back to 2016. The game has gone to the idea of D skating the puck out of the zone(highly mobile, PMDs quarterbacking the rush), and a high offensive tempo(more wide open style), of which Q refuses to adjust to. Evidenced by his misuse of just about every Dman Bowman has brought in the past year or two. He still tries to use the stretch pass way too much. All the opposition has to do is clog the neutral zone by playing man to man in it, only one forechecker deep on the D, and the stretch pass is eliminated as an option.

They won the West last year on the backs of numerous comeback wins, elite(Vezina caliber) goaltending from Crow, and amazing backup goaltending from Darling, and luck.

As for the loss of players... Hammer was worse than Murphy this year. If you watched him play the last third of the season last year, and any this year, it's obvious he has fallen off a cliff. Panarin hurts, no arguing there, especially with Saad having a terrible(career worst) season this year. Toews was bad. Keith had a bad year also. I don't expect Saad or Keith to play that poorly next year. They'll progress back up to their mean. Toews is a question mark at this point. But we've seen a few older guys revitalize their careers this season, maybe Toews can do it too.

The systems employed by Q exposed the hell out of the D. If the D were allowed to use their best assets(their speed/ability to skate the puck out) then this year probably would have gone quite a bit different, even with Crow out.

I, and others have tried to explain all this, but you just keep screaming about how we think the "coaches forgot how to coach."

i only said this one time lol and u keep repeating it.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,084
21,410
Chicago 'Burbs
i only said this one time lol and u keep repeating it.

Really? You need me to go back and point it out for you? Funny how you ignore the entirety of the rest of the post, though.

I meant you repeatedly talking about Quenneville not being able to coach anymore, btw. Something you've mentioned in this thread no less than 5 times. Not repeating the exact same words over and over.
 
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Panzerspitze

Registered User
Mar 4, 2010
4,958
998
The other teams also got a lot better in talent. The Preds are no longer running the likes of Martin Erat out there on the PP (thinking back to the Kane shortie on Hossa's 5-min major and the subsequent GWG that Nashville had Quenneville's superiorly talented squad on the ropes up to that sequence).
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
coaching being a bigger problem then crawford getting hurt. please follow along.

I am not going to follow along stupidity. Do you know the systems the Hawks play? If so, explain how they are currently up to date and put the players in the position to succeed?

I am telling you right now if Crow stays healthy this team is still not in the playoffs because our systems were so easy to defend and attack.
 

ChiHawk21

Registered User
Jan 15, 2011
7,310
1,552
Really? You need me to go back and point it out for you? Funny how you ignore the entirety of the rest of the post, though.
yes please point it out. i just went back and looked. because your post contradicts your argument. we dont have the same goaltending and are getting a different result. why are not looking at the variables that have changed instead of looking at the one consistent one.

your points-last year we won from comeback wins, goaltending, and luck. cmon
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
yes please point it out. i just went back and looked. because your post contradicts your argument. we dont have the same goaltending and are getting a different result. why are not looking at the variables that have changed instead of looking at the one consistent one.

your points-last year we won from comeback wins, goaltending, and luck. cmon

We had the same goaltending this season and were out of the playoffs when Crow went down. This team is far to easy to defend and attack. This is a systems based issue.
 
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ChiHawk21

Registered User
Jan 15, 2011
7,310
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We had the same goaltending this season and were out of the playoffs when Crow went down. This team is far to easy to defend and attack. This is a systems based issue.
thats not true...all while losing 3 of the best players on the team while saad toews and keith played like crap on top of it.
 

ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
28,084
21,410
Chicago 'Burbs
yes please point it out. i just went back and looked. because your post contradicts your argument. we dont have the same goaltending and are getting a different result. why are not looking at the variables that have changed instead of looking at the one consistent one.

your points-last year we won from comeback wins, goaltending, and luck. cmon

This is accurate. Pretty sure they had the most come-from-behind wins in the NHL last year(which involves skill, but also a lot of luck). They had elite goaltending from both starter and backup, and more stolen games by goaltending than normal. To the point Crow was probably a Vezina finalist before getting hurt. Luck, yes, it's a real thing, and played a huge role also.

Here's an article for you, as well. Read it. Educate yourself. Q isn't putting guys in a position to succeed, ever. He's not adapting his system for the players he has, he's trying to adapt the players to the system, instead... That rarely works... And is a big reason our D looks like a f***ing dumpster fire every night.

New defensemen learning Blackhawks' unusual system as they go
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
33,636
16,483
Minneapolis, MN
thats not true...all while losing 3 of the best players on the team while saad toews and keith played like crap on top of it.

Forsberg had a .909 save percentage when Crow went down. So at that point he was fine. The team actually struggle to provide him goal support up until that point.
 

ChiHawk21

Registered User
Jan 15, 2011
7,310
1,552
Forsberg had a .909 save percentage when Crow went down. So at that point he was fine. The team actually struggle to provide him goal support up until that point.
yes when he was backing up crawford and they were in the wild card spot. Then crawford went down...
 

coolhand

Registered User
Jan 20, 2016
2,624
1,937
Streamwood, IL
thats not true...all while losing 3 of the best players on the team while saad toews and keith played like crap on top of it.

I meant the 16-17 season. Darling was superb when Crow was out for about 3 weeks. This year the goalies gave up some soft goals, but they also had very little support from the skaters. Too many unchallenged shots, tips and rebounds with no one challenging in front of our net. It was hard to watch.
 

coolhand

Registered User
Jan 20, 2016
2,624
1,937
Streamwood, IL
This is accurate. Pretty sure they had the most come-from-behind wins in the NHL last year(which involves skill, but also a lot of luck). They had elite goaltending from both starter and backup, and more stolen games by goaltending than normal. To the point Crow was probably a Vezina finalist before getting hurt. Luck, yes, it's a real thing, and played a huge role also.

Here's an article for you, as well. Read it. Educate yourself. Q isn't putting guys in a position to succeed, ever. He's not adapting his system for the players he has, he's trying to adapt the players to the system, instead... That rarely works... And is a big reason our D looks like a ****ing dumpster fire every night.

New defensemen learning Blackhawks' unusual system as they go

His system of pack the middle and let them ring the boards is insane. They will eventually get an open shot. No one challenges the point or tries to block a shot and the dmen won't tie up a guy in the crease. The system is built on the goalie making the save and we clear the rebound. The Preds clearly showed last season in the playoffs that challenging the shooters and blocking shots gives you a much better chance for success.
 
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