Well That Was Fun...

ChiHawk21

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Jan 15, 2011
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The fact that he continually goes back to this "They had the best record in the West last year" narrative is proof in and of itself that he doesn't understand. :shakehead

just because you say its outdated doesnt make it fact. The proof is right in front of you the system was good enough to win with that team. It happened thats the reality of the situation.
 

ChiHawk21

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ChiHawks10

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just because you say its outdated doesnt make it fact. The proof is right in front of you the system was good enough to win with that team. It happened thats the reality of the situation.

You're aware that Crawford was playing at something like a .940 save percentage and 2.10 GAA before he got hurt, right? It was unsustainable. And a huge reason why the Hawks were able to do what they did. Combine that with Scott Darling playing out of his mind. Elite goaltending can mask a ton of issues. And it did.

I'm not saying that other players being gone doesn't hurt. Hossa gone hurts. Crawford being injured hurts. Not having a dependable backup hurts. Panarin being gone hurts. But this team had issues last year, and it was obvious to everyone. Go back and find some GDTs from last season and read through them. There were issues all over, and the Hawks overachieved throughout the entire season.

The Preds exposed the hell out of the Hawks in that playoff series. They exposed the hell out of Q's systems that are no longer working. Every NHL team wrote a book on it and used it this season to neutralize them also.

No one is f***ing saying that there weren't other factors this year. But he has been coaching the Hawks for 10 years and does things the exact same way he did them 10 years ago with far less talent or aging/regressing talent. It doesn't work. It won't work anymore. So he has to change things up, or move on.

As far as me saying it doesn't make it fact... no, but I'd venture that the person who has 95% of the board agreeing with him about Q is closer to fact than the person who has 3-4 people on his side.
 
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ChiHawks10

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man you must not read these articles that you post.

WTF are you talking about? They're a testament to the Hawks having a tough system for D to learn and adapt to. A system that is no longer working.

Guys saying "There's a lot of stuff here that I'm not used to." etc. has nothing to do with the systems Q uses, right? The systems that no.longer.work.

Quenneville continually tries to fit square pegs in round holes. And round pegs in square holes. He doesn't adapt the system to his talent/players, he tries to adapt the players to the system. THAT NEVER WORKS.
 
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RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
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That's me in the corner
almost none of this post has any merit. Do you still want to die on the hill that 13th place is not a middling team? thats fine ill concide 13th place is not 15th place. Everything else is complete spinzone nonsence.

Im belittling colliton because i said the teams record was middling but this whole thread is not belittling Q. you dont even believe that nonsense.

you didnt need to add theo epstein into a bill walsh quote and i just read his book not to long ago where he says he regrets that decision to retire then. tough look on that one.

Not sure why that's a tough look. Coaching beyond 10 years with the same team is not easy, regardless of previous success.

Nobody is taking anything away from Q in what he previously achieved, and if they were, I'd agree that people were belittling him.
 

coolhand

Registered User
Jan 20, 2016
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Streamwood, IL
Interesting that Teuvo had 23 goals and 41 assists for the Canes this year. I thought the Hawks dumped him too early. He was in a package deal with Bickell, another huge contract mistake by Bowman. We could have used Teuvo's offense this year.
 
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Esq

in terrorem
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Feb 5, 2009
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You didn't answer a single question and tried to play the victim...nice. Last time I checked Q decided lineups (they were awful), decided the team systems (they were awful, outdated, and predictable), and was in charge of making sure the team was ready to play (they never were). If you think otherwise you seriously didn't watch the Hawks this season and know very little about the game.

Next on the list: trying to insult someone's knowledge about hockey! Great job again. Too bad I've been watching the game for over 30 years and my family had season tickets at the old stadium.

If this is how you act in life (and not behind the safety of a message board), I assume you are failing at everything.
 
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Panzerspitze

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Mar 4, 2010
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Interesting that Teuvo had 23 goals and 41 assists for the Canes this year. I thought the Hawks dumped him too early. He was in a package deal with Bickell, another huge contract mistake by Bowman. We could have used Teuvo's offense this year.

He'd make a perfect PK duo with DeBrincat in Quenneville's "system". :sarcasm:
 

BK

"Goalie Apologist"
Feb 8, 2011
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Minneapolis, MN
Next on the list: trying to insult someone's knowledge about hockey! Great job again. Too bad I've been watching the game for over 30 years and my family had season tickets at the old stadium.

If this is how you act in life (and not behind the safety of a message board), I assume you are failing at everything.

Haha such a victim.

Again you answered not a single question. Let’s see some of those 30 years knowledge and answer a question.

Nothing better than the hiding behind a keyboard comment.
 
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RememberTheRoar

“I’m not as worried about the 5-on-5 scoring.”
Oct 21, 2015
23,119
21,154
That's me in the corner
Interesting that Teuvo had 23 goals and 41 assists for the Canes this year. I thought the Hawks dumped him too early. He was in a package deal with Bickell, another huge contract mistake by Bowman. We could have used Teuvo's offense this year.

Nobody liked seeing Teuvo go. Everybody knew that deal would be painful the moment it was announced. What’s your point?
 

Pez68

Registered User
Mar 18, 2010
18,288
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Chicago, IL
they dont have enough talent to be good right now. thats my position. they won for 9 years with quennevilles system and lineup decisions. they may win some more games if they packed it in a played an old new jersey or wild system but they wont win the cup and the goal, with this group, is to win the cup. They need to let the young guys mature, bring in some fresh bodies, hit on the draft, have there veterans bounce back and have the goaltending come back to life.

bringing in an interm coach from a coaching staff that you dont like, that has a say in special teams that you dont like, that has a say in buildings lines that you dont like.... All this so you can pay queneville to not coach your team for a year only then to bring in an ahl coach with a middle of the road record after his first year. Thats your answer??

i think your blaming the coach for the losses instead of lack of talent,regression, age, and injury problems.

You are defending a coach and the systems he employs, and you can't even describe those systems, let alone understand how they work. Good job?
 

ChiHawk21

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Jan 15, 2011
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You are defending a coach and the systems he employs, and you can't even describe those systems, let alone understand how they work. Good job?
what do you need broken down for you? The forcheck? the defensive zone coverage? the power play? the penalty kill? protecting a lead late game? any of there numerous breakouts? u say systems like there is one system that joel plays throughout a game and the season. Im not sure what your looking for, do you want Xs and Os of the 2-1-2? Im defending the second most winning coach in hockey history who has had 9/10 winning hockey seasons for the blackhawks while you preach that his "system is outdated and the book is out" the second he has lost half the talent on the team.
 
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coolhand

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Jan 20, 2016
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Streamwood, IL
Nobody liked seeing Teuvo go. Everybody knew that deal would be painful the moment it was announced. What’s your point?

I guess it was the horrendous deal to Bickell by Bowman, where in order to unload his contract we had to offer Teuvo with him. That was a big price to pay. And just another example of bad decisions by Stan.
 

ChiHawks10

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Jul 7, 2009
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I guess it was the horrendous deal to Bickell by Bowman, where in order to unload his contract we had to offer Teuvo with him. That was a big price to pay. And just another example of bad decisions by Stan.

Yeah, but this is partly revisionist history. If Bickell doesn't have MS, then that deal is not nearly as bad as it was, and is movable without having to give up someone like TT. You can probably package a 4th line type of player to move him, or a tweener prospect. His deal was probably about a 1m overpayment with a healthy, productive Bickell on the ice.
 

Blackhawks

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Jul 25, 2007
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WTF are you talking about? They're a testament to the Hawks having a tough system for D to learn and adapt to. A system that is no longer working.

Guys saying "There's a lot of stuff here that I'm not used to." etc. has nothing to do with the systems Q uses, right? The systems that no.longer.work.

Quenneville continually tries to fit square pegs in round holes. And round pegs in square holes. He doesn't adapt the system to his talent/players, he tries to adapt the players to the system. THAT NEVER WORKS.

True it’s tough for the D but not because it’s outdated but rather this team has 5 bottom pairing D and Keith which was playing like a 1st pairing D but no where near what he used to be. When your D is filled with Pylons no shiznit they ain’t gonna be able to deliver on a system that has been proven to win cups, they need some entry level system from the minors instead lol. Hawjs fans need to get this through their thick heads, this team is just not that good no matter the system, the players are not as skilled as some make them out to be, just stop deluding yourself, stop it please...
 

Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
31,475
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London, Ont.
Daley trying to pick up Blackhawks system 'as quick as possible'

Blackhawks system starting to become more 'natural' to new defensemen

I mean, it's pretty common knowledge that Q's system is different than pretty much every other team in the NHL, and takes a long time for D to adapt to... So not sure what you're trying to accomplish here.
I'm trying to find where any Dman said his system is unusual. And I still haven't seen anyone say it's unusual, just different than what they are used to coming from shitty teams. (Daley, Murphy, Franson)
 

ChiHawks10

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Jul 7, 2009
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I'm trying to find where any Dman said his system is unusual. And I still haven't seen anyone say it's unusual, just different than what they are used to coming from ****ty teams. (Daley, Murphy, Franson)

The reporter said the system is unusual. Which it is. And you know that, and I know that, and everyone who watches the Hawks knows that. It's not a typical system used by the vast majority of NHL teams. The D consistently talk about it being a hard adjustment to make... and how it's not "typical". I mean... is it that hard to put two and two together? This seems like one of those times where you're simply arguing to argue or ignoring how these two things correlate.(an unusual system + D having a hard time adjusting)
 

ChiHawk21

Registered User
Jan 15, 2011
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1,552
The reporter said the system is unusual. Which it is. And you know that, and I know that, and everyone who watches the Hawks knows that. It's not a typical system used by the vast majority of NHL teams. The D consistently talk about it being a hard adjustment to make... and how it's not "typical". I mean... is it that hard to put two and two together? This seems like one of those times where you're simply arguing to argue or ignoring how these two things correlate.(an unusual system + D having a hard time adjusting)



Its really not unusual. plenty of teams use the same defensive scheme. Oduya Campbell TVR Leddy all came from other systems and were able to adjust because they are talented enough.
 
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ChiHawks10

Registered User
Jul 7, 2009
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Chicago 'Burbs


Its really not unusual. plenty of teams use the same defensive scheme. Oduya Campbell TVR Leddy all came from other systems and were able to adjust because they are talented enough.


This isn't exactly how the Hawks play their system. They use a low-zone collapse type of system, but it's modified. D don't play the man in front, ever. They play the lanes, shooting lanes, and passing lanes. Opposing players are allowed to stand in front unimpeded. I don't think the wings collapse down as much. If you watch, much of the time they're up high looking for a stretch pass to breakout for an odd-man rush the other way.

I think they don't have the personnel to run the zone system anymore. Which is why I keep saying Q's systems are not working anymore. In all honesty, their current personnel might be better suited to the neutral zone trap, as boring as that may seem.
 
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Hawkaholic

Registered User
Dec 19, 2006
31,475
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London, Ont.
The reporter said the system is unusual. Which it is. And you know that, and I know that, and everyone who watches the Hawks knows that. It's not a typical system used by the vast majority of NHL teams. The D consistently talk about it being a hard adjustment to make... and how it's not "typical". I mean... is it that hard to put two and two together? This seems like one of those times where you're simply arguing to argue or ignoring how these two things correlate.(an unusual system + D having a hard time adjusting)
Where has any Dman said that no other team uses this system, or that it is rare? It's different then they are used to, which is completely different than saying it's unusual. Unusual would be something they have rarely ever seen, but none of them are saying that.
 

ChiHawks10

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Jul 7, 2009
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Where has any Dman said that no other team uses this system, or that it is rare? It's different then they are used to, which is completely different than saying it's unusual. Unusual would be something they have rarely ever seen, but none of them are saying that.

Where have I said that it's rare, or no other team uses it? I've said it's unusual, and not typical of most NHL teams, meaning it's not what most teams use. Even teams who use a zone system don't use it the same way the Hawks and Q use it... It's a modified low-zone collapse.

un·u·su·al
ˌənˈyo͞oZH(o͞o)əl/
adjective
  1. not habitually or commonly occurring or done
Again, you're arguing just to argue, and over stupid shit on top of it. Which is par for the course with you it seems. Arguing over word usage, and even worse, words that I never even used. :laugh:

There are articles where D who come here describe having a hard time adjusting to the system, and it taking a long time. The system is not typical of NHL systems. Numerous instances of D coming here and saying that a lot of it is different from what they're used to. And you're going to argue with me over the word "unusual". :shakehead
 

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