Player Discussion: Vesalainen Thread

[DRW204]

How's he looked in the A. Asides from the 2 pts in 11gp

 

[Al Camino]

So to recap...

A bust or not a bust? That is the question.

The Jets record in the first round after 2016 is pretty mediocre. Either they are busts or they don’t draft as well as we are told they do.

 

[snowkiddin]

The Jets record in the first round after 2016 is pretty mediocre. Either they are busts or they don’t draft as well as we are told they do.

Is it that mediocre?

2017: Vesalainen isn’t looking very good.
2018: no pick.
2019: Heinola seems to be progressing well, still too early to tell.
2020: Perfetti seems to be progressing well, still to early to tell.
2021: Lucius, too early to tell.

This is with picks mainly in the back-half of the first round.

 

[Al Camino]

Is it that mediocre?

2017: Vesalainen isn’t looking very good.
2018: no pick.
2019: Heinola seems to be progressing well, still too early to tell.
2020: Perfetti seems to be progressing well, still to early to tell.
2021: Lucius, too early to tell.

This is with picks mainly in the back-half of the first round.

Depending who you talk to Heinola can’t play. Given the opportunity the team has given Stanley over him they don’t seem too enthusiastic about him. Regardless if the Jets think they are going to ‘draft and develop’ their way out of their problems it’s going to be a while.

 

[surixon]

Depending who you talk to Heinola can’t play. Given the opportunity the team has given Stanley over him they don’t seem too enthusiastic about him. Regardless if the Jets think they are going to ‘draft and develop’ their way out of their problems it’s going to be a while.

I don't really agree. We have a group of impact players who are fairly young up front in Dubois, Ehlers, and Conner. Perfetti looks poised to join that group. Depending on what happens with Mark we may not really require much more in the way of Impact forwards for the next few years, especially if a new coaching staff can get this group energized and dialed in. What we have in the system is a couple potential NHL ready depth forwards in Barron and Gus. If these guys can fill depth roles and conribute and we bring in one or two good third line guys our forward core looks a lot better.

On defense we have Samberg who is looking like a second pairing defensive dmen and Heinola who should be ready for the third pairing.

I think if we run this next year we'd be pretty good if coaching has a positive impact.

Perfetti Scheifele Ehlers
Conner Dubois Svech
FA Lowry Appelton
Barron Gus FA

JoMo DeMelo
Samberg Pionk
Heinola Schmidt

 

[Al Camino]

I don't really agree. We have a group of impact players who are fair young up front I Dubois, Ehlers, and Conner. Perfetti looks poised to join that group. Depending on what happens with Mark we may not really require much more in the way of Impact forwards for the next few years, especially if a new coaching staff can get this group energized and dialed in. What we have in the system is a couple potential NHL ready depth forwards in Barron and Gus. If those guys can do a fill depth roles and Co tribute and we bring in one or two good third line guys our forward core looks a lot better.

On defense we have Samberg who is looking like a second pairing defensive dmen and Heinola who should be ready for the third pairing.

I think if we rub this next year we'd be pretty good if coaching has a positive impact.

Perfetti Scheifele Ehlers
Conner Dubois Svech
FA Lowry Appelton
Barron Gus FA

JoMo DeMelo
Samberg Pionk
Heinola Schmidt

I’d be all for this. I’m not a Lowry on the 3rd line fan just because that line just doesn’t finish much but if they can get a legit third line that can add some goals and a coach who knows.

 

[JetsFan815]

How's he looked in the A. Asides from the 2 pts in 11gp

Not gonna embarrass any posters here by naming names but there were people on this board talking about how the Jets are "ruining" him by not playing him on the top 2 lines or playing him on the PP. Curious position to take.

I think he is Liiga bound next season. The Jets will probably still give him a QO to retain his rights though.

 

[surixon]

Not gonna embarrass any posters here by naming names but there were people on this board talking about how the Jets are "ruining" him by not playing him on the top 2 lines or playing him on the PP. Curious position to take.

I think he is Liiga bound next season. The Jets will probably still give him a QO to retain his rights though.

I must admit it looks like I got this one wrong. Thought he'd be able to carve out a middle 6 role for himself but it juat doesn't look to be in the cards. I doubt he's still part of the org next year.

 

[snowkiddin]

I wonder what happened with him for his development to fall off this much? It’s possible he’s just not good enough but he seemed to be progressing somewhat decently but now he’s just hit a wall.

I’m surprised they didn’t send him to the Moose months ago considering he’s waiver exempt.

 

[fmrdh]

I’ve seen plenty of videos of him in Finland wiring one timers top shelf with a crazy shot.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen him take a slap shot the entire time he’s played for the Jets.

 

[voyageur]

I don't really agree. We have a group of impact players who are fairly young up front in Dubois, Ehlers, and Conner. Perfetti looks poised to join that group. Depending on what happens with Mark we may not really require much more in the way of Impact forwards for the next few years, especially if a new coaching staff can get this group energized and dialed in. What we have in the system is a couple potential NHL ready depth forwards in Barron and Gus. If these guys can fill depth roles and conribute and we bring in one or two good third line guys our forward core looks a lot better.

On defense we have Samberg who is looking like a second pairing defensive dmen and Heinola who should be ready for the third pairing.

I think if we run this next year we'd be pretty good if coaching has a positive impact.

Perfetti Scheifele Ehlers
Conner Dubois Svech
FA Lowry Appelton
Barron Gus FA

JoMo DeMelo
Samberg Pionk
Heinola Schmidt

I don't see how taking Wheeler and Stastny out of the lineup to replace them with the 6 goals and 18 points and 2 goals and 7 points that Svetchnikov and Perfetti have produced makes the team better. Especially if one of them goes down, who steps up? Svetchnikov has the same amount of points as Lowry so putting him on the 4th line, and getting him to be a top 6 replacement is what a good depth team like St. Louis would do. Perfetti probably goes into camp with Barron competing for one spot, to ensure some depth, in case of injury. I don't think the Jets have to subtract, but I think some changes in coaching can get more out of this team. A Hellebuyck rebound season should make this a playoff team. Though I think if we lose Stastny without an adqeuate replacement, this team is bottom 3 in the Central. I'll also be surprised if Blake Wheeler isn't the captain next year.

Edit: damn this is the Vesalainen thread, my bad. I don't think Vesalainen comes back. However it's possible he improves his quickness with offseason training, but I'm still not sold he will pan out.

 

[surixon]

I don't see how taking Wheeler and Stastny out of the lineup to replace them with the 6 goals and 18 points and 2 goals and 7 points that Svetchnikov and Perfetti have produced makes the team better. Especially if one of them goes down, who steps up? Svetchnikov has the same amount of points as Lowry so putting him on the 4th line, and getting him to be a top 6 replacement is what a good depth team like St. Louis would do. Perfetti probably goes into camp with Barron competing for one spot, to ensure some depth, in case of injury. I don't think the Jets have to subtract, but I think some changes in coaching can get more out of this team. A Hellebuyck rebound season should make this a playoff team. Though I think if we lose Stastny without an adqeuate replacement, this team is bottom 3 in the Central. I'll also be surprised if Blake Wheeler isn't the captain next year.

I'm not concerned with replacing Blake's points as he once again is the worst forward among the Jets in terms of GAR. This is now two years in a row that he's awful there. I think the team from a net benefit is better without him at his age. Also think we need a leadership shake up and he is an impediment to that.

Also you must of missed when I talked about bringing in two other forwards. One of them can most certainly be Stastny if he's willing to stay but from what Murat has heard he's likely signing elsewhere.

 

[voyageur]

I'm not concerned with replacing Blake's points as he once again is the worst forward among the Jets in terms of GAR. This is now two years in a row that he's awful there. I think the team from a bet benefit is better without him at his age.

Also you must of missed when I talked about bringing in two other forwards. One of then can most certainly be Stastny if he's wing to stay but from what Murat has heard he's likely signing elsewhere.

Sounds fishy to me...That's still 44 goals and 130 collective points in Wheeler, Copp and Stastny that would be lost from a non playoff team. That needs replacing.

I have no idea how Chevy does that, but I am not the driver of the bus.

 

[Jets4Life]

Is it that mediocre?

2017: Vesalainen isn’t looking very good.
2018: no pick.
2019: Heinola seems to be progressing well, still too early to tell.
2020: Perfetti seems to be progressing well, still to early to tell.
2021: Lucius, too early to tell.

This is with picks mainly in the back-half of the first round.

If we look at the pics after Vesalainen in the first round of the 2017 draft, there is no an abundance of talent that has progressed well immediately below him. Maybe Henri Jokiharju at #29?

 

[10Ducky10]

This lineup costs about 81m...

Perfetti Scheifele Ehlers 14m
Conner Dubois Konecny 20.5m
Svech Stastny Wheeler 11.5m
Gus Lowry Apples 5.25m
Hark/KV 2m


JoMo DeMelo 9.25m
Samberg Pionk 6.25m
Heinola Kovs 2m
Stanley 1m

Helle Comrie 7m

 

[Adam da bomb]

Sounds fishy to me...That's still 44 goals and 130 collective points in Wheeler, Copp and Stastny that would be lost from a non playoff team. That needs replacing.

I have no idea how Chevy does that, but I am not the driver of the bus.

That’s how many they put up this season but Wheeler and stas will be a year older a year slower next year.

 

[DRW204]

If we look at the pics after Vesalainen in the first round of the 2017 draft, there is no an abundance of talent that has progressed well immediately below him. Maybe Henri Jokiharju at #29?

Robertson, Texier, Formenton, Comtois went not even a full round later too. Robertson is dynamite. The other three aren't anything great yet although still superior production to Vesalainen.

 

[Jimmyjets]

I don't really agree. We have a group of impact players who are fairly young up front in Dubois, Ehlers, and Conner. Perfetti looks poised to join that group. Depending on what happens with Mark we may not really require much more in the way of Impact forwards for the next few years, especially if a new coaching staff can get this group energized and dialed in. What we have in the system is a couple potential NHL ready depth forwards in Barron and Gus. If these guys can fill depth roles and conribute and we bring in one or two good third line guys our forward core looks a lot better.

On defense we have Samberg who is looking like a second pairing defensive dmen and Heinola who should be ready for the third pairing.

I think if we run this next year we'd be pretty good if coaching has a positive impact.

Perfetti Scheifele Ehlers
Conner Dubois Svech
FA Lowry Appelton
Barron Gus FA

JoMo DeMelo
Samberg Pionk
Heinola Schmidt

I like these lines and frankly I can't see Wheeler going anywhere but if they played him on the 3rd line pushing Apples down to the 4th with Reichel in the AHL I don't mind that.

Trade Dillon/Stanley for the 3LW.

I find it so disappointing that this team didn't do better. On paper we should be good.

 

[LowLefty]

Not gonna embarrass any posters here by naming names but there were people on this board talking about how the Jets are "ruining" him by not playing him on the top 2 lines or playing him on the PP. Curious position to take.

I think he is Liiga bound next season. The Jets will probably still give him a QO to retain his rights though.

Many of our top draft prospects are destined to be top 6 / 4 players by the fan base - that what fans do.
Too bad for Ves as he looked like he had the tools (but lacked the drive) to become all that he could be.

 

[surixon]

Many of our top draft prospects are destined to be top 6 / 4 players by the fan base - that what fans do.
Too bad for Ves as he looked like he had the tools (but lacked the drive) to become all that he could be.

I'm not sure if it was drive or just smarts. He doesn't seem to think the game quick enough for NHL speed.

 

[Al Camino]

Many of our top draft prospects are destined to be top 6 / 4 players by the fan base - that what fans do.
Too bad for Ves as he looked like he had the tools (but lacked the drive) to become all that he could be.

Fans gonna fan! Part of the process I guess. We are also told by various media that the Jets win the draft every year and Chevy and crew are the smartest guys in the room despite plenty of evidence otherwise.

Fans can also make that argument because the front office and coaching staff has had three changes in since 2011. That been Claude Noel, Perry Pearn and Maurice. Nothing has changed much in 10 years.

The amateur scouts draft smaller skilled guys that seem to produce at the AHL but when called up they are forced to play on a 3rd and 4th lines that either have no skill or get 5-7 minutes of ice time and sometimes both. Then the pro scouts bring in the Nate Thomsons, Derek Forberts and Matt Hendrixs' of the world. Maybe it's my own bias but other than Svechnikov has any of those types of signings ever produced anyone good?

Sorry kind off topic.

 

[LowLefty]

I'm not sure if it was drive or just smarts. He doesn't seem to think the game quick enough for NHL speed.

Probably some of that too -
But I saw a player that gave up on the play - especially in the ozone where he rarely had the puck and was unwilling to put in the effort needed to get it - very Laine like

 

[Romang67]

I'm not sure if it was drive or just smarts. He doesn't seem to think the game quick enough for NHL speed.

I have it down to smarts. The issue isn't his tools. He just have no idea how to get open on the ice, which makes his (at least before the draft) most dangerous weapon - his shot - relatively useless.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

If we look at the pics after Vesalainen in the first round of the 2017 draft, there is no an abundance of talent that has progressed well immediately below him. Maybe Henri Jokiharju at #29?

Of the next 10 picks all except Bowers and Timmons, who can't stay healthy, have outperformed him this year by pretty good margins. There are plenty of others further down who are also outperforming him, some by very wide margins.

 

[surixon]

Of the next 10 picks all except Bowers and Timmons, who can't stay healthy, have outperformed him this year by pretty good margins. There are plenty of others further down who are also outperforming him, some by very wide margins.

Well we were bound to have a first round bust at some point.