Rumor: Rumours & Proposals - (Chia discussion will be met with a threadban at minimum)

[Tom Poti]

Say whatever you like about Chia, but I personally don't see him throwing away Klefbom with as low as his value is, my guess is they hang on to him. When it comes time to add another d-man I would assume one of Russell/Sekera would be moved, following next year and the one after, their movement clauses are altered significantly. Russell has had a respectable year, and one would hope Sekera gets back to normal following that injury he sustained in the playoffs. young d-men take time, and Klefbom is still evolving as a player. what would we be saying if we cut loose nurse after last year and seeing his progression? boy would that be fun.

 

[Jet Walters]

Yeah Connor McDavid is a helluva drug. Covers up a lot of warts.

So in your mind Connor McDavid can take credit for our GA dropping that much? Same old crap. Go to the default "because McDavid" argument when the numbers don't support your narrative while pretending McDavid and Hall were never on the team at the same time. I'm done talking about the past with you. If you have any ideas about the future that don't involve cowering in a corner waiting for the next trade to break, I'm all ears.

 

[belair]

Underperforming? Most of the forwards are doing about as well if not better than last year:

McDavid: (23G, 55GP this year, 30G, 82GP last year)
Draisatl: (16G, 51 GP this year, 29G, 82GP last year)
RNH (16G, 46GP this year, 18G, 82GP last year)
Lucic: (9G, 55 GP this year, 23G, 82GP last year)
Maroon: (14G, 53GP this year, 27G, 81GP last year)
Drake: (8G, 42GP this year7G, 60 GP last year)
Slepyshev: (3G, 25 GP this year, 4 G, 41GP last year)
Khaira: (8G, 42 GP this year 1G, 10GP last year)
JP: (9G, 38GP this year, 1G, 28GP last year)
Pakarien: (1G, 24GP this year, 2G, 24GP last year)
Letestu: (8G, 54GP this year, 16G, 78GP last year)
Kassian: (6G, 54 GP this year, 7G, 79GP last year)

Maroon, and especially Letestu/Lucic have fallen back this year. It was expected of the first two, but only Lucic has really spiraled.

I've said my piece about Eberle in countless other places. I'll just re-iterate that it was him and all the other players let go that really hurt the team. They've dropped about 45 goals and added not even half of that in the offseason. There are no goal scoring threats on the wings besides Maroon.

How's the execution been though? Offense is one thing, but it's quite obviously not the only thing. Our special teams have been the league's worst. Our team defense has taken a huge step back. As a result, so has the goaltending. Trading away struggling players doesn't necessarily address those issues. Whether it's a change in the coaching or a bigger commitment to the execution, they need to improve those issues to achieve a better result next season.

 

[FlameChampion]

Say whatever you like about Chia, but I personally don't see him throwing away Klefbom with as low as his value is, my guess is they hang on to him. When it comes time to add another d-man I would assume one of Russell/Sekera would be moved, following next year and the one after, their movement clauses are altered significantly. Russell has had a respectable year, and one would hope Sekera gets back to normal following that injury he sustained in the playoffs. young d-men take time, and Klefbom is still evolving as a player. what would we be saying if we cut loose nurse after last year and seeing his progression? boy would that be fun.

I would be very surprised if he moves a well known roster player. I cant seem him trading Nurse, Klefbom, etc. RNH who knows. But I dont think he will move one unless he thinks hes getting back more than what hes giving. Maybe he will trade a draft pick after he knows where we fall in the lottery.

I think its better to be patient in this situation. He should be trying to make his team better but should avoid any type of panic trades. From what I hear, it sounds like hes not panicing. I think it depends on how much pressure Katz puts on. Panic trade could be a result of owner who wants to win now.

I dont really see how this team can make sweeping changes anyway. They dont really have a lot of assets. Like I said I cant see them moving Nurse, Klefbom, RNH, JP, Larsson, etc. They have very few prospects. I guess they could start trading draft picks but with a farm system that is as weak as it is, I think this is mistake.

Will be an interesting offseason. I dont think we need to blow it up. But there needs to be some smart decisions on all 3 phases: goaltending, offense and defense.

 

[Little Fury]

So in your mind Connor McDavid can take credit for our GA dropping that much? Same old crap.

McDavid is definitely driving the GF side. As for the GA, it's back where it was during the depths of the DoD. Worse, even. Last year sure looks like a blip on the radar.

Go to the default "because McDavid" argument when the numbers don't support your narrative while pretending McDavid and Hall were never on the team at the same time.

They do, though.

If you have any ideas about the future that don't involve cowering in a corner waiting for the next trade to break, I'm all ears.

Fire the GM, fire the coach and start retooling the roster and be prepared for another couple years of pain.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

How's the execution been though? Offense is one thing, but it's quite obviously not the only thing. Our special teams have been the league's worst. Our team defense has taken a huge step back. The team as a whole needs to execute better next season. It's not necessarily a personnel issue.

Yes the execution isn't there defensively for sure. But a lot of these forwards are what they are. We dropped a lot of experience from last year's team in favour of unknown youth and it hasn't paid off in the slightest.

Talbot and McDavid having MVP seasons covered up a lot of problems the team had. If one of them faltered the team was in for a world of hurt. Sure enough.... And I'm not just blaming the goalie, but the defense was never good enough, nor were the forwards outside of a few. This team needed to get better and certain individuals opted for the reverse for some bizarre reason.

The main problem is that there's virtually no room to substantially upgrade without giving up something of worth. If the Oilers bring anyone in, Klefbom or RNH seem like the most likely candidates to be traded. If there's a viable solution to this team's woes (outside of a full front office firing), I'm not seeing it. There's no help on the way in the pipeline, and very unlikely to be much via trade or free agency.

The team has to pray not only for a bounceback season for Klefbom, Lucic, Talbot, Larsson, and Sekera, but for complete team health too.

 

[MoneyGuy]

You might want to head for another thread with that. Lol.

Oops, lol.

 

[belair]

McDavid is definitely driving the GF side. As for the GA, it's back where it was during the depths of the DoD. Worse, even. Last year sure looks like a blip on the radar.



They do, though.



Fire the GM, fire the coach and start retooling the roster and be prepared for another couple years of pain.

Sure does. But when you consider none of the personnel from that era made it to this team, I'd say the results of the previous season, which are all of the current defensive personnel, are valid. Saying the 2016/17 season was an anomaly is being extremely disingenuous.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Sure does. But when you consider none of the personnel from that era made it to this team, I'd say the results of the previous season, which are all of the current defensive personnel, are valid. Saying the 2016/17 season was an anomaly is being extremely disingenuous.

Is it really though? The Oilers had a lot go right for them. Complete team health, a goalie playing above his level, a pretty lax schedule, a few teams falling off (Dallas, LA), and some career numbers (Maroon, Letestu, Klefbom). A few people (including the GM) predicted some regression, maybe not to this extent but still.

 

[Digger12]

Is it really though? The Oilers had a lot go right for them. Complete team health, a goalie playing above his level, a pretty lax schedule, a few teams falling off (Dallas, LA), and some career numbers (Maroon, Letestu, Klefbom). A few people (including the GM) predicted some regression, maybe not to this extent but still.

True, but to be fair quite a few pundits outside the org, not just the local fartcatchers within city limits, were predicting this team to at least reach the 2nd round, and likely go further. I can't find a single person who predicted a bottom 5 finish, not even among the Eastern media who've hated this team for years.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

True, but to be fair quite a few pundits outside the org, not just the local fartcatchers within city limits, were predicting this team to at least reach the 2nd round, and likely go further. I can't find a single person who predicted a bottom 5 finish, not even among the Eastern media who've hated this team for years.

Oh I absolutely agree. Even the biggest haters figured this team was a playoff lock, but alas sometimes the leopard just doesn't change his spots so quickly. The real issue isn't even this year though, it's the upcoming years where we are pressed for cap space.

Being bad in those other years was one thing, but this is probably one of the worst things that could've possibly happened to the Oilers.

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Is it bad insight to suggest the 1st pk on the road and 31st at home is a finger pointing directly at talbot.?

 

[belair]

Is it really though? The Oilers had a lot go right for them. Complete team health, a goalie playing above his level, a pretty lax schedule, a few teams falling off (Dallas, LA), and some career numbers (Maroon, Letestu, Klefbom). A few people (including the GM) predicted some regression, maybe not to this extent but still.

It is. You don't assess a roster based on the likelihood someone important gets injured. That defense and goaltender played significantly well over a large period of time--almost 100 games. No doubt our depth at all positions needs to be addressed, which likely happens in the coming years, but the roster as we see it today is capable of performing at that level. We've seen it more than we haven't.

 

[CupofOil]

Underperforming? Most of the forwards are doing about as well if not better than last year:

McDavid: (23G, 55GP this year, 30G, 82GP last year)
Draisatl: (16G, 51 GP this year, 29G, 82GP last year)
RNH (16G, 46GP this year, 18G, 82GP last year)
Lucic: (9G, 55 GP this year, 23G, 82GP last year)
Maroon: (14G, 53GP this year, 27G, 81GP last year)
Drake: (8G, 42GP this year7G, 60 GP last year)
Slepyshev: (3G, 25 GP this year, 4 G, 41GP last year)
Khaira: (8G, 42 GP this year 1G, 10GP last year)
JP: (9G, 38GP this year, 1G, 28GP last year)
Pakarien: (1G, 24GP this year, 2G, 24GP last year)
Letestu: (8G, 54GP this year, 16G, 78GP last year)
Kassian: (6G, 54 GP this year, 7G, 79GP last year)

Maroon, and especially Letestu/Lucic have fallen back this year. It was expected of the first two, but only Lucic has really spiraled.

I've said my piece about Eberle in countless other places. I'll just re-iterate that it was him and all the other players let go that really hurt the team. They've dropped about 45 goals and added not even half of that in the offseason. There are no goal scoring threats on the wings besides Maroon.

They dropped 45 goals?

They lost from the entire season - Eberle 20 goals, Pouliot 8 goals, Hendricks 4 goals and DD 2 goals. That's 34 from last season out.
They gained in this season thus far (their replacements) - Puljujarvi - 8 goals so far (1 last season to 9), Khaira - 7 goals, Strome - 7 goals and Cammalleri - 2 goals.
That's 24 added so 10 goals dropped based on offseason transactions.
Actually, I forgot Pitlick so that's 19 goals dropped.

So while the Eberle trade (a dumb trade obviously) and the others being out is a small factor, it didn't REALLY hurt the team. As has been mentioned numerous times, their top 3 Dmen from last season and Talbot taking a huge step back are the main culprits. The top unit PP being far worse (mainly Letestu being a dud) has also hurt. The players that were sent out would have had little impact in those areas. If the Special Teams were even average, this season would look a lot different.

 

[belair]

Is it bad insight to suggest the 1st pk on the road and 31st at home is a finger pointing directly at talbot.?

Gonna say yes. Our forwards on the PK are extremely passive. The execution of that PK is worrisome. I'd argue that the performance on the road is the larger anomaly than the performance at home.

 

[McFlash97]

LHD- Nurse/Sekera/Russell/Klefbom/Davidson/Auvitu. RHD- Larsson/Benning

We are extremely deep on the left side. I don't see how trading from an area of depth to fill an area of need is a bad idea, and yes Klefbom still holds a lot of trade value.

We only need to Keep Nurse, Larsson and Russell.

The rest need to be jettisoned off to Mars. Free up some cap space , bring in guys like Faulk, Voynov if possible etc

and get a legit backup who will push Talbot for the starting position. Talbot needs to know his job is not safe. Terrible year.

as for forwards, we need to buy low, its called asset management.

Max Domi
Mike Hoffman
Andreas Athanasiou

can be had with a proper offer.

How does a GM in the NHL not understand this concept ?

 

[BoldNewLettuce]

Gonna say yes. Our forwards on the PK are extremely passive. The execution of that PK is worrisome. I'd argue that the performance on the road is the larger anomaly than the performance at home.

Yeah mqybe dadbot iw malfunctioning preparation wise at home

 

[Raab]

Who would trade for Andrej Sekera? A number of teams, more than likely. Especially ones who might have a player with a similar unwanted contract playing a position that may help us more than they help their current team.

I dont really see any teams Sekera would waive his NMC clause for with bad contracts needing a dman. Especially the way that Sekera is playing.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

They dropped 45 goals?

They lost from the entire season - Eberle 20 goals, Pouliot 8 goals, Hendricks 4 goals and DD 2 goals. That's 34 from last season out.
They gained in this season thus far (their replacements) - Puljujarvi - 8 goals so far (1 last season to 9), Khaira - 7 goals, Strome - 7 goals and Cammalleri - 2 goals.
That's 24 added.

So while the Eberle trade (a dumb trade obviously) and the others being out is a small factor, it didn't REALLY hurt the team. As has been mentioned numerous times, their top 3 Dmen from last season and Talbot taking a huge step back are the main culprits. The top unit PP being far worse (mainly Letestu being a dud) has also hurt. The players that were sent out would have had little impact in those areas.

So far the players subtracted from last year's roster have scored roughly 45 goals (Eberle, Pouliot, Hendricks, DD, Pitlick, Oesterle), whereas the players we actually added (as in obtained from outside the org) have scored 12 (Strome, Auvitu, Jokinen/Cammalleri) or so. It's nice that JP and Khaira have produced but neither have lit the lamp much since Christmas and shouldn't be counted on for offense so early in their careers. This is the org's biggest failing. Relying on young players to play critical roles once again as opposed to vets. It wasn't necessary nor wise to do this and now we run the risk of ruining those players after they showed a little promise. We could send them down but there's nothing to replace them with.

It is. You don't assess a roster based on the likelihood someone important gets injured. That defense and goaltender played significantly well over a large period of time--almost 100 games. No doubt our depth at all positions needs to be addressed, which likely happens in the coming years, but the roster as we see it today is capable of performing at that level. We've seen it more than we haven't.

You add to a roster and improve it. Depth is important in today's NHL. The Lightning have seven players in double digits with goals, and 4 with at least 20. The Oilers have 4 and 1 respectively.

And I don't think the roster is all that good. It benefitted from a lot going right last year and nothing was done to correct the possibility of some fallback (something the GM actually mentioned, mind you). Seriously, we have the worst crop of wingers in the league and a very average defense even when healthy. I at least thought we were a playoff team but not a contender, turns out we need a bit more. The GM (whoever it may be) has a ton of work to do this offseason and not a lot of room to do it.

 

[Raab]

We only need to Keep Nurse, Larsson and Russell.

The rest need to be jettisoned off to Mars. Free up some cap space , bring in guys like Faulk, Voynov if possible etc

and get a legit backup who will push Talbot for the starting position. Talbot needs to know his job is not safe. Terrible year.

as for forwards, we need to buy low, its called asset management.

Max Domi
Mike Hoffman
Andreas Athanasiou

can be had with a proper offer.

How does a GM in the NHL not understand this concept ?

Add whatever dman we draft this summer. I mean they can't be crazy enough to pass on a dman AGAIN this year.

 

[ChaoticOrange]

Friedman's 31 thoughts cliff's notes (Oilers version)

- all three Atlantic teams have made overtures RE:Maroon. However Toronto doesn't make sense unless there are other moves and he may have been out to lunch on Boston. Mentioned John Cooper / Tampa connection again.

- With Lucic/Cammalleri/Strome all riding massive scoring droughts and Slepyshev playing well despite being benched and offered around the league, maybe the Oilers are better off giving Slepy a run in a bigger role for the rest of the year - internal improvement is always preferable.

- Not sure what's wrong with Klefbom but he hasn't looked like himself all season. Wonder if we see him shut down soon to get ready for next year. *rememeber, Friedman loves Klefbom. Had him as a darkhorse Norris candidate last year*

 

[ChaoticOrange]

also if Domi can be gotten for a fair offer jump all over that.

 

[CupofOil]

So far the players subtracted from last year's roster have scored roughly 45 goals (Eberle, Pouliot, Hendricks, DD, Pitlick, Oesterle), whereas the players we actually added (as in obtained from outside the org) have scored 12 (Strome, Auvitu, Jokinen/Cammalleri) or so. It's nice that JP and Khaira have produced but neither have lit the lamp much since Christmas and shouldn't be counted on for offense so early in their careers. This is the org's biggest failing. Relying on young players to play critical roles once again as opposed to vets. It wasn't necessary nor wise to do this and now we run the risk of ruining those players after they showed a little promise. We could send them down but there's nothing to replace them with.

That's not how it works Keith. We're talking about production last year vs. production this year as Oilers. What Eberle does alongside Barzal and the others in their different roles with different linemates is irrelevant.

Also, every team relies on young players to some extent. Don't see how Puljujarvi was ruined by getting top 6 opportunity. If anything, he's being ruined by playing with lesser skilled players and being jerked around the lineup. Khaira only got a bigger opportunity when Nuge went down.
On defense, Benning is another story. Most of us saw him getting the Sekera minutes as a mistake going into the season.

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

That's not how it works Keith. We're talking about production last year vs. production this year as Oilers. What Eberle does alongside Barzal and the others in their different roles with different linemates is irrelevant.

Why is it irrelevant? Eberle's just doing what he's always done, produce points. He did it on some of the worst teams the NHL has ever seen and he's doing it again. But alright, let's have it your way then.

Eberle: 20 goals
Pouliot: 8 goals
Hendricks: 4 goals
Pitlick: 8 goals
DD: 2 goals

That's still 42 goals subtracted. And replaced with (using last year's numbers):
Cammalleri/Jokinen (21 goals between the two of them)
Strome: 13 goals
Auvitu: 2 goals

That's maybe 25 goals? So we net subtracted 17 goals (and I don't think Cammalleri or Strome are going to hit last year's totals)

JP was always going to post better numbers than last year, and quite frankly they're still not that impressive this year. Khaira was a surprise for a bit before he fell off again.

My question is why are we relying on young players again to play critical offensive roles? Why can't we let them develop normally until they're punching through the glass ceiling at the AHL level? Time and time again we're gifting players spots and they tend to perform at a mediocre level. It's especially painful because down the road Thachuk is on an absolute tear lately and has already hit 20 goals.

The real point is the Oilers let go too many players and didn't replace them adequately. Yes you can point to Khaira/JP replacing some of that but it's still not enough, especially since the latter is a key prospect that the Oilers have mishandled from day one.

We've seen this dumb strategy before and it failed then, hilariously so. Why is it going to work this time?

 

[Jet Walters]

That's not how it works Keith. We're talking about production last year vs. production this year as Oilers. What Eberle does alongside Barzal and the others in their different roles with different linemates is irrelevant.

Also, every team relies on young players to some extent. Don't see how Puljujarvi was ruined by getting top 6 opportunity. If anything, he's being ruined by playing with lesser skilled players and being jerked around the lineup. Khaira only got a bigger opportunity when Nuge went down.
On defense, Benning is another story. Most of us saw him getting the Sekera minutes as a mistake going into the season.

He doesn't understand the concept that a players point totals would change depending on what team they played on and what role they filled.

We don't need to be adding players point totals on other teams and subtracting who we think is their replacements totals, or anything silly like that. I look at it this way. Last year we averaged 2.96 goals per game as a team. This year we are currently at 2.83. That's .13 goals less per game, or what would equate to 7.15 less goals over the 55 games we are currently at. It's not that bad considering our 30th ranked PP. If our PP, which was 5th in the entire league last year, was even 15th overall at this point we'd be scoring at exactly the same rate as last year. So it's really just a bunch of huffing and puffing about something completely insignificant when posters bitch and moan about our lack of offense this year.