Possible trade and roster fixes for the Wings, Part II

[The Zetterberg Era]

Its less about value and more about who Vancouver covets. Tough to say what they want. But the Wings are finally in a position to move a young prospect for a real return. Losing a guy like Jurco hurts, but with Nyquist, Tatar, Sheahan all still around, it's doable. Then Mantha in the wings.

Player that would kill me to lose now would be Sheahan. Love his game the most of all our young guys.

I still would move Tatar before the guys listed, I know I am the worst.

Would much rather offer

Andersson (NHL 3rd/4th line tweener) Vancouver actually has decent speed on the third line so his necessary protection is in place and Torts will like him)
Kindl (NHL, former 1st rounder, 3rd pairing, slides in on the left in Vancouver and their second PP unit)
Pulkkinen ( Top 6 potential)
1st (Barring a huge run somewhere between what 13 to 22)
Cap dump (Sammy) has a good history with their team, as healthy as he has been since his first year in Vancouver

To Us

Edler
One of their AHL guys they have given up on with a deal expiring either this off-season or next. We will probably need to take at least one contract in this scenario.

That is a meaty offer for a struggling Edler that looks like an ill fit under a coach they are likely going to give three years at least to with that team. I understand Vancouver fans not liking it, but that is a bunch of younger/ish assets for a guy that isn't a fit for them and certainly has not meshed at all with their new system and coach.

Would feel bad for Kindl, I actually think his play would improve almost anywhere else, the only real exception in my mind might be Vancouver, but who knows maybe he will actually enjoy Torts though he seems like an even worse version of Babcock for Kindl.

 

[Bench]

Your offer is perfect for the Wings. None of those assets would be missed. Hope the Nucks agree!

 

[Hammettf2b]

I still would move Tatar before the guys listed, I know I am the worst.

Would much rather offer

Andersson (NHL 3rd/4th line tweener) Vancouver actually has decent speed on the third line so his necessary protection is in place and Torts will like him)
Kindl (NHL, former 1st rounder, 3rd pairing, slides in on the left in Vancouver and their second PP unit)
Pulkkinen ( Top 6 potential)
1st (Barring a huge run somewhere between what 13 to 22)
Cap dump (Sammy) has a good history with their team, as healthy as he has been since his first year in Vancouver

To Us

Edler
One of their AHL guys they have given up on with a deal expiring either this off-season or next. We will probably need to take at least one contract in this scenario.

That is a meaty offer for a struggling Edler that looks like an ill fit under a coach they are likely going to give three years at least to with that team. I understand Vancouver fans not liking it, but that is a bunch of younger/ish assets for a guy that isn't a fit for them and certainly has not meshed at all with their new system and coach.

Would feel bad for Kindl, I actually think his play would improve almost anywhere else, the only real exception in my mind might be Vancouver, but who knows maybe he will actually enjoy Torts though he seems like an even worse version of Babcock for Kindl.

I would much rather offer that deal too, just not sure its the package that gets it done. Who knows, we've seen much less value in other trades in real life so i wont count out a deal like this from happening.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Your offer is perfect for the Wings. None of those assets would be missed. Hope the Nucks agree!

I don't think their fans will agree, but I think this is closer to happening than a lot of what they are throwing out. I could see the value here to Gillis, he gains a lot of assets, gets two NHL controlled players on cheap contracts.

Holland didn't want to move that many pieces at the draft, but they were bigger pieces too in my mind at least. Maybe he does this because it is the right pieces. For me I don't like the 2014 draft so this is a year I have no issue whatsoever in moving that pick.

Pulkkinen isn't quite those other guys, but don't forget this is a guy that almost broke Teemu Selanne's 18 year old scoring record in Finland, he was ranked third entering his draft year by The Hockey News and has been very good in the AHL. Their fans rightly want one of our young guys that has played in the NHL, but those aren't usually the NHL players moved and for me Edler is not close to Vanek or Hossa/Kovy the kind of guys that get young guys have great years as the first piece. Even after that Vancouver fans are asking more than the other add ons from us than those players even produced so trying to talk to them is like having a conversation with a brick wall in terms of value. Honestly cannot believe some of the comments even their mods are allowed to make, but it is what it is.

The real question is if this is enough for GMMG, do we take two dog contracts and throw them Almqvist as well, I don't know, but you can do this without giving up some of the guys everyone is high on. In large part that is because Edler looks God awful under Torts, if they don't like it sit around until they do like it, in my opinion that is coming. The price has already dropped from what we were trying to hammer out at the draft in my opinion.

 

[JohanFranzenstein]

Would the Red Wings immediately benefit from adding Edler and would it be worth giving up assets like Jurco/Shehan/Mantha/Sproul?

 

[drw02]

Would the Red Wings immediately benefit from adding Edler and would it be worth giving up assets like Jurco/Shehan/Mantha/Sproul?

Just could not disagree more. The best players on the team are old and have already started to break down the past two seasons. The players you listed are this teams future and should not be sacrificed for a struggling (though talented) PMD that we don't really even need. This team was one goal away from going to the WCF last year with the same defense. They are good enough to contend for a cup once again.

 

[ArGarBarGar]

Just could not disagree more. The best players on the team are old and have already started to break down the past two seasons. The players you listed are this teams future and should not be sacrificed for a struggling (though talented) PMD that we don't really even need. This team was one goal away from going to the WCF last year with the same defense. They are good enough to contend for a cup once again.

One could assume it was a flukey series, and that with competent defense they might have been able to finish the Blackhawks off in 6 or fewer games.

Any team that does not win the Stanley Cup can and should improve. Hell, even if you win the Stanley Cup your team could find ways to improve.

 

[Detroit Sports*]

I still would move Tatar before the guys listed, I know I am the worst.

Would much rather offer

Andersson (NHL 3rd/4th line tweener) Vancouver actually has decent speed on the third line so his necessary protection is in place and Torts will like him)
Kindl (NHL, former 1st rounder, 3rd pairing, slides in on the left in Vancouver and their second PP unit)
Pulkkinen ( Top 6 potential)
1st (Barring a huge run somewhere between what 13 to 22)
Cap dump (Sammy) has a good history with their team, as healthy as he has been since his first year in Vancouver

To Us

Edler
One of their AHL guys they have given up on with a deal expiring either this off-season or next. We will probably need to take at least one contract in this scenario.

That is a meaty offer for a struggling Edler that looks like an ill fit under a coach they are likely going to give three years at least to with that team. I understand Vancouver fans not liking it, but that is a bunch of younger/ish assets for a guy that isn't a fit for them and certainly has not meshed at all with their new system and coach.

Would feel bad for Kindl, I actually think his play would improve almost anywhere else, the only real exception in my mind might be Vancouver, but who knows maybe he will actually enjoy Torts though he seems like an even worse version of Babcock for Kindl.

I think thats overpayment for Edler. I would do it for E. Kane though

 

[Bench]

Would the Red Wings immediately benefit from adding Edler and would it be worth giving up assets like Jurco/Shehan/Mantha/Sproul?

Edler is basically another Kronwall level defender. So ask yourself, would the Wings benefit from having a younger Kronwall? Yes. Yes they would.

If you can't get that elite defender, get two top pairing defenders. Now you've got 2 reliable guys who can all help you score goals and control the pace of the game.

Edler was a big part of the Vancouver teams that were Cup contenders. It will be interesting to see how he does with all the Wings in Sochi.

 

[LeighDx59]

This team almost went to the WCF last year with this same defense. Took the eventual cup winners to game 7 OT. The Wings struggles are pretty much entirely due to the fact our entire top 6 has missed significant time. We don't need to make a big splash and lose a bunch of great assets (who have been integral in keeping this team afloat). A small deal like a Derek Morris, Henrik Tallinder, etc to solidify the bottom pair is all this team needs.

Would love to have Morris here, I think he would fit in well.

I still would move Tatar before the guys listed, I know I am the worst.

Would much rather offer

Andersson (NHL 3rd/4th line tweener) Vancouver actually has decent speed on the third line so his necessary protection is in place and Torts will like him)
Kindl (NHL, former 1st rounder, 3rd pairing, slides in on the left in Vancouver and their second PP unit)
Pulkkinen ( Top 6 potential)
1st (Barring a huge run somewhere between what 13 to 22)
Cap dump (Sammy) has a good history with their team, as healthy as he has been since his first year in Vancouver

To Us

Edler
One of their AHL guys they have given up on with a deal expiring either this off-season or next. We will probably need to take at least one contract in this scenario.

That is a meaty offer for a struggling Edler that looks like an ill fit under a coach they are likely going to give three years at least to with that team. I understand Vancouver fans not liking it, but that is a bunch of younger/ish assets for a guy that isn't a fit for them and certainly has not meshed at all with their new system and coach.

Would feel bad for Kindl, I actually think his play would improve almost anywhere else, the only real exception in my mind might be Vancouver, but who knows maybe he will actually enjoy Torts though he seems like an even worse version of Babcock for Kindl.

I would do this deal for sure. I like Pulkkinen but he is the best prospect we have that I would be okay with trading. Guys like Tatar/Nyquist/Mantha/Jurco/Sheahan I think we should hold onto. Thats our potential top six years from now

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

Edler is basically another Kronwall level defender. So ask yourself, would the Wings benefit from having a younger Kronwall? Yes. Yes they would.

If you can't get that elite defender, get two top pairing defenders. Now you've got 2 reliable guys who can all help you score goals and control the pace of the game.

Edler was a big part of the Vancouver teams that were Cup contenders. It will be interesting to see how he does with all the Wings in Sochi.

I don't think he is as good as Kronwall, certainly not defensively, there is a pretty big gap between them.

 

[Bench]

I don't think he is as good as Kronwall, certainly not defensively, there is a pretty big gap between them.

I don't think it's a huge difference. Edler has always played significant PK time, so we're not talking about a Yandle here. This is a guy who has drawn top minutes for a top team and come out on top more often than not over his career.

But admittedly I've always been a fan of Edler, so I never bought into his criticisms all that much. But with Edler, I like that we know what we're getting. He's got over 400 games under his belt along with nearly 60 playoff games. I don't buy he's suddenly dropped off for no particularly reason at age 27, even with his back issues.

I do buy that Torts is a jerk and maybe those two aren't exactly buddy buddy at the moment and certain players always wane with him as coach.

 

[Winger98]

I don't think it's a huge difference. Edler has always played significant PK time, so we're not talking about a Yandle here. This is a guy who has drawn top minutes for a top team and come out on top more often than not over his career.

But admittedly I've always been a fan of Edler, so I never bought into his criticisms all that much. But with Edler, I like that we know what we're getting. He's got over 400 games under his belt along with nearly 60 playoff games. I don't buy he's suddenly dropped off for no particularly reason at age 27, even with his back issues.

I do buy that Torts is a jerk and maybe those two aren't exactly buddy buddy at the moment and certain players always wane with him as coach.

The Sedins are putting up their lowest numbers in ten years under Torts. Maybe part of Vancouver's scoring problem is not utilizing the Sedins well enough. They are usually putting up a lot more points.

 

[InjuredChoker]

He's not worth the price Vancouver is reportedly asking. If they would do something like Kindl and a 1st I'd be ok with it but when you start talking about us throwing in one or even two young forwards it becomes a bad deal for us. Too much uncertainty with Edler to give away that many assets.

i agree he's not worth what canucks fans are asking for.

one of wings young forwards, 1st rounder and another piece, like kindl or b level prospect.

and not now, as it would be step forward and step back.

if it looks like guys like girardi, morris, boyle are re-signed, they need to look at other options to improve the D. if they want to win. yeah, they got hawks to 7 games last year but big part of the reason they lost games 5-7 was that D and how it couldn't handle them.

i don't think wings top 9 can handle it this year if they go for edler and i would prefer to keep jurco and mantha. franzen, dats, zeta, helm, sheahan, tatar/nyquist, weiss/abdelkader. that's 7 top 9 Fs for next year. and that's assuming abby is on fourth line or weiss doesn't bounce back and jurco starts in AHL. re-sign alfie, and/or get moulson, seto or kulemin etc. needs 2 of them.

if they don't think they can get 2 top 9 F's from UFA, i can understand if one wouldn't pull the trigger, there's a big risk it's sideways move. i'd only go for edler if it makes wings cup contenders, if not, i'd keep the kids and pick(s).

we know more at the end of the season, seeing how weiss plays, can sheahan keep it up etc.

The Sedins are putting up their lowest numbers in ten years under Torts. Maybe part of Vancouver's scoring problem is not utilizing the Sedins well enough. They are usually putting up a lot more points.

they are old. slowest i've ever seen them.

defenders also seem to know what they do, they've been scouted pretty well over the years.

 

[InjuredChoker]

Mike Harrington @BNHarrington
Scout registry tonight in BUF: EDM, CHI, PHL, COL, BOS, NSH, WPG, STL, DAL, TOR, VAN, SJS, FLA, DET, OTT, TBL. The 2 DET is unusual.

 

[Winger98]

they are old. slowest i've ever seen them.

defenders also seem to know what they do, they've been scouted pretty well over the years.

The Sedins' production has slipped. Edler's production has slipped. Burrow's production has fallen through the floor. Hamhuis's production is down. These are guys who have been scouted for years, team's already knew what they like to do, and not all of them have lost a step (or three) over the summer.

There were some doubting Torts as Vancouver's hire (I wasn't one of them, I thought he would possibly work out very well), but I think there is a real possibility that he's not using the pieces he has as well as he needs to.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

I wonder if New Jersey would be interested in a Quincey for Volchenkov swap. We take Volchenkov's contract off their hands in exchange for clearing a roster spot on Defense for the Devils next year.

 

[kuick]

I wonder if New Jersey would be interested in a Quincey for Volchenkov swap. We take Volchenkov's contract off their hands in exchange for clearing a roster spot on Defense for the Devils next year.

Rather clear the spot on our own blue line and let Q walk. Let the kids play. AA could handle a spot. XO is ready. Marchenko isn't too far off.

 

[Mister Ed]

Random thought : Andersson and Quincey for Ott and McBain. Detroit gets tougher and a much needed right-shooting D and Buffalo gets a good 3rd C and a defenceman that needs a change of scenery.

Nothing exciting, which makes me thinks it's an ideal Holland-type deal.

 

[ElysiumAB]

I would HATE to see Ott in a Wings sweater.

 

[JmanWingsFan]

Random thought : Andersson and Quincey for Ott and McBain. Detroit gets tougher and a much needed right-shooting D and Buffalo gets a good 3rd C and a defenceman that needs a change of scenery.

Nothing exciting, which makes me thinks it's an ideal Holland-type deal.

Ott is a heaping pile of hot garbage. Hockey needs to get rid of this myth that you need 'toughness.' The object of the game is to score more goals than your opponent. You want guys who can hold on to the puck and can skate well enough to draw penalties. You don't need to hit people all the time. If you are hitting, you and your team are not holding on to the puck. Steve Ott is horrible at puck possession (one of the worst in the league).

 

[The Zermanator]

Ott is a heaping pile of hot garbage. Hockey needs to get rid of this myth that you need 'toughness.' The object of the game is to score more goals than your opponent. You want guys who can hold on to the puck and can skate well enough to draw penalties. You don't need to hit people all the time. If you are hitting, you and your team are not holding on to the puck. Steve Ott is horrible at puck possession (one of the worst in the league).

I agree. Toughness is only really an asset if it's combined with skill, like the Bruins.

 

[detredWINgs]

Random thought : Andersson and Quincey for Ott and McBain. Detroit gets tougher and a much needed right-shooting D and Buffalo gets a good 3rd C and a defenceman that needs a change of scenery.

Nothing exciting, which makes me thinks it's an ideal Holland-type deal.

Andersson and Quincey won't get us Ott and McBain. Ott is exactly the type of guy that contending teams covet at the deadline. There was speculation at one point that Ott could land as much as a 1st. While I'm not sure he'll get that, a 2nd round pick and a decent prospect is feasible.

On the other hand, you seem spot on about McBain. I don't know much about him, but he's still pretty young, has put up points before, and perhaps most importantly in Kenny's eyes - is a right handed shot.

I'd modify the proposal a bit though by trading Kindl and Andersson for McBain because I think that's what Buffalo would want. Considering Buffalo is going to be a basement team for a few seasons, they'd probably covet younger guys who are locked up for a few years so they can't jump ship when Buffalo loses game after game. McBain - at least statistically - seems a touch better than Kindl, but he'll need a new contract so Detroit would probaly have to throw in something more. We know that Ott is most certainly going to be leaving Buffalo, so Andersson makes sense to help fill the PKing/defensively responsible center hole that Ott will leave when he's shipped off.

In terms of salary, that's a $1.2M net gain for the Wings. Which (let's be honest) is really the only reason Holland is probably looking to make a trade in the first place.

 

[Mister Ed]

On the other hand, you seem spot on about McBain. I don't know much about him, but he's still pretty young, has put up points before, and perhaps most importantly in Kenny's eyes - is a right handed shot.

I'd modify the proposal a bit though by trading Kindl and Andersson for McBain because I think that's what Buffalo would want. Considering Buffalo is going to be a basement team for a few seasons, they'd probably covet younger guys who are locked up for a few years so they can't jump ship when Buffalo loses game after game. McBain - at least statistically - seems a touch better than Kindl, but he'll need a new contract so Detroit would probaly have to throw in something more. We know that Ott is most certainly going to be leaving Buffalo, so Andersson makes sense to help fill the PKing/defensively responsible center hole that Ott will leave when he's shipped off.

In terms of salary, that's a $1.2M net gain for the Wings. Which (let's be honest) is really the only reason Holland is probably looking to make a trade in the first place.

I would in favour of a Andersson and Quincey/Kindl trade for McBain. He's a bruising RHD defenseman and is also a RFA, and with only Myers, Erhoff and Weber signed through the summer plus Ristolainen, Zadorov and Pysyk chomping at the bit, they might want to test the FA market for a bottom-pairing D and skip the RFA stuff altogether.

Andersson has lost his place (IMO) to Sheahan / Helm in the rotation when everyone is healthy.

 

[Big Poppa Puck]

We don't need a forward (Unless we can swing a deal for a game change like Vanek). What we need is a 2nd pairing defenseman. Think Brad Stuart in 2008.