Possible trade and roster fixes for the Wings, Part II
- Thread starter SoupNazi
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The wings top 7 forwards are among the league's best. The problem is that even though they are clearly better than their other forwards some of them don't get as much time as lesser forwards. Unfortunately only one of them has size and Babcock insists on having size on his top 2 lines and preferably on all of them. And there is merit to having size on your lines when most of the goals scored are in tight, rebounds, or deflections. Just not as much net for the shooters to shoot at these days. Being bigger gives you an advantage in tight as you are more of an obstacle for the goalie, most likely harder(but necessarily) to move for the d-men and have more reach for rebounds and deflections although smaller guys like Ciccarelli and Verbeek have excelled at it, (even Hudler did a good job at it). I think Tatar would relish the role given the opportunity. He seems to have the mentality.
If you only have 1 player amongst your 7 best who is big and the others are significantly better than anybody on the team that is as well you shouldn't force the issue by playing someone just because of their size. The Wings would be most successful employing their best players. They would be more productive and thus more attractive for a trade to get the right player.
Andy MacDonald???
The Wings don't need any forwards who aren't big, physical and can score (or have the potential to).
If you only have 1 player amongst your 7 best who is big and the others are significantly better than anybody on the team that is as well you shouldn't force the issue by playing someone just because of their size. The Wings would be most successful employing their best players. They would be more productive and thus more attractive for a trade to get the right player.
Andy MacDonald???
The Wings don't need any forwards who aren't big, physical and can score (or have the potential to).
InjuredChoker
Registered User
i'm actually more fine with babs usage of late.
i'm ok with tatar and/or nyquist on third line. esp. as one of the top 7 is out. bc otherwise the bottom 6 can't score at all or generate puck possession.
holland should know by now how babcock uses his players. it's on holland, not babs.
babs has had some issues this year but this is not one of them imo.
and i meant andy (andrew) macdonald, the isles defenseman. blues one, former duck retired.
i'm ok with tatar and/or nyquist on third line. esp. as one of the top 7 is out. bc otherwise the bottom 6 can't score at all or generate puck possession.
holland should know by now how babcock uses his players. it's on holland, not babs.
babs has had some issues this year but this is not one of them imo.
and i meant andy (andrew) macdonald, the isles defenseman. blues one, former duck retired.
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Tootoo to the Flames for...
With trader Burkie at the helm, he's likely going to make a deal before his new GM arrives. Only because he can't help it. How about we move Sammy, Toots and a prospect to get Hudler back. Burkie will never keep Hudler and Cammalleri on that team. Whoever he hires will do exactly as he says. Thoughts?
With trader Burkie at the helm, he's likely going to make a deal before his new GM arrives. Only because he can't help it. How about we move Sammy, Toots and a prospect to get Hudler back. Burkie will never keep Hudler and Cammalleri on that team. Whoever he hires will do exactly as he says. Thoughts?
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
That won't get you either of their might-mouse scorers.
Calgary might be a landing spot for Tootoo if we take some of his cap hit for a conditional 7th.
Probably should just go in our Trades thread anyway.
Not very realistic in my opinion.
Calgary might be a landing spot for Tootoo if we take some of his cap hit for a conditional 7th.
Probably should just go in our Trades thread anyway.
Not very realistic in my opinion.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
If Andy McDonald (there is no A anyway) had not retired and still was having concussion issues we should be interested. That guy was severely underrated, one of the better PP guys in the league for the last decade when healthy. Should have played smaller, might not have had the problems he does have, but you have to be joking if you don't want the potential of Andy McDonald on the team, either that or you don't know what kind of player he was.
I like Andrew MacDonald, surprised he has not re-signed though, wonder exactly what he is asking for. Also that will continue a logjam, he is a guy that if we dealt for he would likely cost the kind of assets we would then immediately lock him up.
Don't think he is worlds different than Ouellet is today anyway. Also Marchenko is probably worth a look and would provide some right-handed balance.
Guess we should send Lashoff and a mid-round pick for Andrew MacDonald, guessing they want more and I worry about what signing him would do long-term for our prospect pileup on D.
I like Andrew MacDonald, surprised he has not re-signed though, wonder exactly what he is asking for. Also that will continue a logjam, he is a guy that if we dealt for he would likely cost the kind of assets we would then immediately lock him up.
Don't think he is worlds different than Ouellet is today anyway. Also Marchenko is probably worth a look and would provide some right-handed balance.
Guess we should send Lashoff and a mid-round pick for Andrew MacDonald, guessing they want more and I worry about what signing him would do long-term for our prospect pileup on D.
The Zetterberg Era
Ball Hockey Sucks
Real question I have is do we go after Vanek, jump the queue and lock him up before free agency? We should have the cap space. If we talk about potential trades with NYI, I want to know what his price is.
DatsyukToZetterberg
Alligator!
I think we won't see Vanek moved until the TD unless someone blows Snow's socks off. They're still able to make up ground in their division so I can't see him throwing in the towel only a month or so after he got Vanek.
As for the price I think you're looking at your typical tier 2 star return. A 1st+Top prospect/young top 9 player + Mid level prospect.
Vanek is a younger, more expensive and less physical Franzen who has produced more in the past because he wasn't required to be as responsible defensively, got more ice-time and always played with his teams most skilled players.
Henkka
Registered User
I'll take that 40 goals with Dats/Z any day without any defence. We have enough defensive skill in this team and we will add defensive skill promoting Sheahan and Ferraro. Let's bolster a net-front scorer.
Henkka
Registered User
Babcock WOULD LOVE 6'2, right-handed, net-front specialist. (don't tell anybody that he is also fast skater, nice passer and great scorer)
That's exactly what Franzen is except he actually hits once in a while. Babcock would require him to play within the system rather than free lance offensive specialist.
Refer to Stephen Weiss to see what happens to career top liners on ****** teams who get moved to a good team that requires them to play within a defensive system.
Comparing Franzen and Vanek is analogous to comparing Fil to Weiss before the season started.
Opinion around here was almost unanimous.
Grass is always greener on the other side.
vladdy16
Registered User
- Aug 2, 2005
- 2,551
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I agree that Burke is unlikely to factor Hudler into his plans for the future. Hudler does have a lot of value to Calgary still though, as he's been the key factor that's allowing Calgary to get some young forwards productive experience. Still I'd be surprised to see Hudler in Calgary to start next year, unless Calgary has a way of getting some plus players in Hudler's age range.
I wonder how close Ferraro would get us to getting Hudler back. Babcock has been talking Hudler up since he left, it'd be funny to see what'd happen if he came back for round 3. Certainly would be a big step up from the Red Wings current cup odds.
InjuredChoker
Registered User
lol vanek fast skater?
maybe compared to holmström.
he can make a highlight reel behind between the legs pass every once in a while but passing isn't one of his strengths.
Henkka
Registered User
I strongly disagree. Vanek has scored two 40 goal seasons with 16-17min icetime. Franzen has scored +30 goals once.
He's the best free agent there at next summer. Let's not try to sign the best player when we have a lot cap space?
Vanek compliments with our needs. Adds handness and size (when somebody pointed out that only one of our TOP7 forwards are over 5'11 sized). Then we would have two bigger guys at TOP6 WITH skill. Mule and Vanek.
We have to get those bigger quality guys from somewhere. You rather extend Bertuzzi and say no to Vanek?
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i think our biggest need is a proper #1 ppqb and a good puck moving/transition dman who can get the puck up and out in a hurry accurately
our game has lagged because of the loss of lidstrom and raflaksi more then any other dimension
InjuredChoker
Registered User
i'd very much like to sign vanek.
but i don't see why he would come here.
money (and term) is maybe one thing but i'm not sure if i'd want to go there and kenny probably won't.
but i don't see why he would come here.
money (and term) is maybe one thing but i'm not sure if i'd want to go there and kenny probably won't.
Vanek doesn't use his size. I would rather try Mantha or Jurco or try and make a move for a forward with size who IS physical like Chris Stewart.
wings need good scoring physical players like curtis glencross and they need another top six forward for help dats and zett ... matt moulson ,mike cammalleri and maybe a third or fourth defenseman for replace the turnover machine kyle quincey ...maybe ryan whitney or tom gilbert
InjuredChoker
Registered User
vanek uses his size in front of the net. he doesn't go out hitting people on forecheck or anything but neither does mantha or jurco.
hitting and skating is the only area where stewart is better than vanek.
Frk It
Mo Seider Less Problems
- Jul 27, 2010
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Whenever Stewart has had more than 16 mins of ice-time per game and more than 2 mins of PP time he has produced at 30+ goal pace.
Hitchcock and Stewart don't like each other.
I think Stewart would be as productive (if not more) with the Wings would be a lot more affordable against the cap and brings some much needed toughness.
Vanek is a younger, more expensive and less physical Franzen who has scored more than Franzen (or Stewart for that matter)in the past because he wasn't required to be as responsible defensively, got more ice-time and ALWAYS plays with his best teammates.
The Wings don't need any forwards who aren't big, physical and can score.
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