Player Discussion Philip Broberg - Berries are brewing

[CROTT]

Its become very clear that Hopkins is not a playoff player, that's a luxury no team can afford if they want to win it all.

Last playoffs he had 14 points (six goals) in 16 games, and has 39 points in 49 career playoff games. Yes he was lack luster this playoffs, but he was far from the sole problem with under production at even strength. Nugent-Hopkins has a better playoff PPG pace then Kane and Hyman... So why is he the pick a victim?

Throwing away a quality player that was injured for one sub par playoffs is throwing the baby out with the bath water. People need to take a step back and stop letting the emotions of the loss make them jump to rash conclusions.

 

[Broberg Speed]

While the Oilers didn't play good enough to win, a healthly Hyman, RNH, and Kane would have made the series a lot closer. I don't get this stance that the Oilers were dominated by the Knights, no one would have seen half the top six if not almost all of the top six going cold at even strength for the whole series. The bottom six provided goals at even strength, but the top six was disjointed offensively out side of the power play.

Regular season pp scoring race hockey and physical grinding playoff hockey are two different beasts. Oilers are built for the regular season pp scoring race and the Golden Knights are built for the grind of the playoffs.

I don't get the stance that all our players mysteriously went cold at the same time when it is clear that Vegas dominated us when it counts and shut all those players down by playing an excellent brand of two-way playoff hockey. Vegas has injured players still in the hunt.

 

[CROTT]

Regular season pp scoring race hockey and physical grinding playoff hockey are two different beasts. Oilers are built for the pp scoring race and the Golden Knights are built for the grind of the playoffs.

I don't get the stance that all our players mysteriously went cold at the same time when it is clear that Vegas dominated us when it counts and shut all those players down by playing an excellent brand of two-way playoff hockey. Vegas has injured players still in the hunt.

The Oilers scored more even strength goals vs the more defensive Kings then the Knights, the Oilers are also not a small team. They are at their best when their physical and driving the play, with the high penalty calls to start the Kings series that seamed to die off as the play offs continued. Hard to be physical when every little thing is called against the Oilers, and the Kings and Knights seam to get the let them play treatment or in the case of the Kings embellish everything. Yes reffing calls can dictate how a team plays, and this is a case of that. The Oilers wanted to be physical yes, but also not be killing seven power plays a night.

The Oilers were also 5th in the regular season in even strength goals.

 

[Broberg Speed]

The Oilers scored more even strength goals vs the more defensive Kings then the Knights, the Oilers are also not a small team. They are at their best when their physical and driving the play, with the high penalty calls to start the Kings series that seamed to die off as the play offs continued. Hard to be physical when every little thing is called against the Oilers, and the Kings and Knights seam to get the let them play treatment or in the case of the Kings embellish everything. Yes reffing calls can dictate how a team plays, and this is a case of that. The Oilers wanted to be physical yes, but also not be killing seven power plays a night.

This version of the Golden Knights would have rolled over the defensive Kings in resolute fashion.

Every year it's the same damned arguments yet here we sit. According to some the best team always gets disassembled by an inferior opponent.

Our board is worse than calgarypuck. While they have a bunch of contemptuous assholes we own delusional in spades.

 

[CROTT]

This version of the Golden Knights would have rolled over the defensive Kings in resolute fashion.

Every year it's the same damned arguments yet here we sit. According to some the best team always gets disassembled by an inferior opponent.

Our board is worse than calgarypuck. While they have a bunch of contemptuous assholes we own delusional in spades.

I'm not delusional, just stating the facts. Yes the Oilers lost the series at even strength, but its hard to ignore that a healthy top six could have resulted in a different out come. And like I pointed out the reffing seamed to cause the Oilers to cut back on the edge to their game, and the Holding/holding the stick non call was a big turning point in the series. Yes better teams over come adversity, again the Oilers did not.

 

[Broberg Speed]

I'm not delusional, just stating the facts. Yes the Oilers lost the series at even strength, but its hard to ignore that a healthy top six could have resulted in a different out come. And like I pointed out the reffing seamed to cause the Oilers to cut back on the edge to their game, and the Holding/holding the stick non call was a big turning point in the series. Yes better teams over come adversity, again the Oilers did not.

The Oilers lost to an all around superior team playing the preferable brand of hockey. The Oil got beat in almost every aspect not just at even strength.

It was hockey men playing against hockey boys and I'm not just talking about the physical aspect of the game.

They have the superior system and they played to win.

The Oilers were fundamentally outcoached in all but a very few categories.

 

[SwedishFire]

You completely missed my point….

Yamamoto gone = 3.1 million, back fill roster spot at atleast .750k is only 2.35 million of cap savings towards the at least 4 million to sign Bouchard. So another player has to go and that roster spot also needs to be filled…

To keep the band together, Yamamoto has to be moved along with one of Foegele or Kulak. I Choose Foegele as Kulak could be replaced by Broberg. But then the Oilers would have to either add another rookie or cheap contract to fill out the pairings. Yes, Ceci could be moved as well but that would have to be money in= money out. As well as find a top 4 RHD for that price, this is the challenge. Word was that he was battling an injury most of this year, and if healthy could return to being the reliable defender that he was his first season here.

Choose Malone and Nemo as their cheap and signed. I would like to see Lavoie get a look, but not as a forth liner/scratched more as an injury top nine fill in. Wouldn't mind Kemp getting a few games either.

An interesting wrinkle is if Ryan and Bjugstad are not brought back or another right shot forward brought in. Hyman will be the only right hand shot forward on the roster.

View attachment 711443

Leaves a little over 700K of cap space, yes there is a lot of estimated contracts but they are reasonable. And 100K here or there will not make too much of a difference, random lines for 7-11 and 22 man roster below.

Kane-McDavid-Hyman
Nugent-Hopkins-Draisaitl-Bjugstad
Holloway-Mcleod-Kostin
Janmark-Ryan
Malone (Scratched)

Nurse-Ceci
Ekholm-Bouchard
Kulak-Desharnais
Broberg
Niemelainen (Scratched)

Skinner/Campbell

Well that looks good.

 

[Game 8]

Last playoffs he had 14 points (six goals) in 16 games, and has 39 points in 49 career playoff games. Yes he was lack luster this playoffs, but he was far from the sole problem with under production at even strength. Nugent-Hopkins has a better playoff PPG pace then Kane and Hyman... So why is he the pick a victim?

Throwing away a quality player that was injured for one sub par playoffs is throwing the baby out with the bath water. People need to take a step back and stop letting the emotions of the loss make them jump to rash conclusions.

Last playoffs he had 14 points (six goals) in 16 games, and has 39 points in 49 career playoff games. Yes he was lack luster this playoffs, but he was far from the sole problem with under production at even strength. Nugent-Hopkins has a better playoff PPG pace then Kane and Hyman... So why is he the pick a victim?

Throwing away a quality player that was injured for one sub par playoffs is throwing the baby out with the bath water. People need to take a step back and stop letting the emotions of the loss make them jump to rash conclusions.

He has been in the league a long time, had many chances to prove himself. When the going gets rough he disappears. Great guy team player etc. however nobody is jumping to any rash conclusions, this is based on a long proven track record.

 

[SwedishFire]

Nothing about the Edmonton Oilers screams championship team so if it takes Broberg plus to even get one more competitive player into the system that can actually play two-way hockey against the elite teams then he should be traded.

Everyone not named McDavid or Draisaitl should be on the table. Trade Broberg but Bouchard is our big trading chip that could actually help correct the team roster in a meaningful way. But that's only part of it. We need a new system. We should be emulating Vegas. I don't care if you hate them. That team gets it.

Even if it isn't Steve Staios we need management reaching out and we need better pro scouting. We need better amature scouting so Bettman's teams stop getting all the good players year after decade. When do we get to draft good NHL players outside of our lottery picks? And even those lotto picks are 50/50.

Most of all we need a team identity and that starts with a new coach.

Trade McLeod. That kid is giving me nightmares. He represents the ineffectiveness of the Edmonton Oilers. Him, Ceci, Yamamoto and Broberg. The list goes on.

Yes, Mcleod is the problem, and it is super easy to find a replacement.

Ok, he is a bottom 6er, but,nIthink, does an Ok job?

 

[Broberg Speed]

I like Broberg's fundamentals and his positioning but his instincts are off, maybe it's 100% confidence.

And despite adding the weight he plays so weak. He's always one shift away from getting blown up or physically dominated on a hockey play. Hopefully it's just youth.

If this player was physically stronger and had some tenacity and poise he'd rightfully be a second pairing defenceman.

Yes, Mcleod is the problem, and it is super easy to find a replacement.

Ok, he is a bottom 6er, but,nIthink, does an Ok job?

I don't like this player. I can see the upside with Broberg but I don't see it with Mcleod. While Broberg has the fundamentals down and his positioning is good for his position, Mcleod has none of that. Mcleod is nothing but speed.

I believe Mcleod has good trade value. Broberg, even better trade value. Bouchard, unreal trade value.

 

[CROTT]

He has been in the league a long time, had many chances to prove himself. When the going gets rough he disappears. Great guy team player etc. however nobody is jumping to any rash conclusions, this is based on a long proven track record.

39 points in 49 playoff games is nothing to complain about...

And looking at the last four playoff season's he has 35 points in 36 games all most a PPG pace, what's your problem here? What track record? By these standards of yours every player should be at McDavid or Draisaitl levels...

 

[Broberg Speed]

I think I'd like to see Ekholm playing on his off side paired with Nurse.

Then play Broberg with Bouchard on the third pairing.

Bouchard can still play the first unit pp and as Broberg and Bouchard improve they can receive increased ice time.

Then you have Kulak and Ceci as your second pairing and Desharnais as our number 7.

Ekholm and Nurse can log huge minutes.

 

[Soundwave]

The Oilers lost to an all around superior team playing the preferable brand of hockey. The Oil got beat in almost every aspect not just at even strength.

It was hockey men playing against hockey boys and I'm not just talking about the physical aspect of the game.

They have the superior system and they played to win.

The Oilers were fundamentally outcoached in all but a very few categories.

I mean sorta yes/no. The Oilers outchanced the Knights 5 on 5 actually. We just didn't finish our chances, Hyman/Kane being hurt and Yamamoto/RNH being playoff wusses hurt us badly, McDavid needed to shoot more too (nursing an injury there perhaps?).

The Avs of 2022, that team was a juggernaut that was clearly on a different level (and would be way over the salary cap today), but Vegas no disrespect to them I didn't really have the same feeling of "we can't beat these guys".

I felt like we beat ourselves as much as they beat us.

 

[Dazed and Confused]

I think I'd like to see Ekholm playing on his off side paired with Nurse.

Then play Broberg with Bouchard on the third pairing.

Bouchard can still play the first unit pp and as Broberg and Bouchard improve they can receive increased ice time.

Then you have Kulak and Ceci as your second pairing and Desharnais as our number 7.

Ekholm and Nurse can log huge minutes.

I've been championing this one. Sadly I though I think this past season would have been the time to try. Unless we get a big jump to the cap, I don't see a straightforward way to keep Kulak and Ceci.

But yeah, in an alternate timeline: Ekholm gives Nurse's even strength play a bump, similar to what he did for Bouchard; Ceci looks better drawing secondary match ups with Kulak, and Broberg-Bouchard contiunue to grow on their solid January/February results together. Also at the end of the season, Bouchard (playing a more limited, but still favourable role) is probably looking at a Barrie-like contract instead of something that starts with a 5 or 6.

I don't like this player. I can see the upside with Broberg but I don't see it with Mcleod. While Broberg has the fundamentals down and his positioning is good for his position, Mcleod has none of that. Mcleod is nothing but speed.

I believe Mcleod has good trade value. Broberg, even better trade value. Bouchard, unreal trade value.

This one I don't quite agree with, McLeod has his fundamentals, they're just limited but also incredibly useful.

He's almost McDavid-like in his ability to headman the puck from the defensive zone and have clean entries into the offensive zone. He's also not a puck hog and does a good job making safe passes to his linemates when there. Problem is he doesn't have a ton of creativity with the puck, nor does he attack/float into soft area's in coverage (though to be fair to him, he's often playing as the defensive presence/3rd man high, and his usual linemates aren't known for their playmaking skills.)

I remember a chart floating around after the Kings series, it was a total of chances created, divided between chances set up and own shots. McLeod was the only forward without a dangerous shot vs. LA, but his passing still had him among the team leaders in chances created.


I feel like there were more comparables a little over a decade (or two...) ago vs. now: Marco Sturm, Mason Raymond, David Legwand, Pascal Dupuis, or even Cogliano, Radek Dvorak, and Jason Chimera, who all had stops here. Guys with solid hands and shot (if a little unspectacular), who did a lot of the little things right, but limited offensive IQ made it so their sole way to generate offence was by skating fast. But because they were often the fastest on the ice, they got away with it.

He's not someone that should be playing a feature role, offensively or defensively. But as a (highly versatile) supporting piece? I've got a ton of time for him.

 

[Broberg Speed]

I've been championing this one. Sadly I though I think this past season would have been the time to try. Unless we get a big jump to the cap, I don't see a straightforward way to keep Kulak and Ceci.

But yeah, in an alternate timeline: Ekholm gives Nurse's even strength play a bump, similar to what he did for Bouchard; Ceci looks better drawing secondary match ups with Kulak, and Broberg-Bouchard contiunue to grow on their solid January/February results together. Also at the end of the season, Bouchard (playing a more limited, but still favourable role) is probably looking at a Barrie-like contract instead of something that starts with a 5 or 6.



This one I don't quite agree with, McLeod has his fundamentals, they're just limited but also incredibly useful.

He's almost McDavid-like in his ability to headman the puck from the defensive zone and have clean entries into the offensive zone. He's also not a puck hog and does a good job making safe passes to his linemates when there. Problem is he doesn't have a ton of creativity with the puck, nor does he attack/float into soft area's in coverage (though to be fair to him, he's often playing as the defensive presence/3rd man high, and his usual linemates aren't known for their playmaking skills.)

I remember a chart floating around after the Kings series, it was a total of chances created, divided between chances set up and own shots. McLeod was the only forward without a dangerous shot vs. LA, but his passing still had him among the team leaders in chances created.


I feel like there were more comparables a little over a decade (or two...) ago vs. now: Marco Sturm, Mason Raymond, David Legwand, Pascal Dupuis, or even Cogliano, Radek Dvorak, and Jason Chimera, who all had stops here. Guys with solid hands and shot (if a little unspectacular), who did a lot of the little things right, but limited offensive IQ made it so their sole way to generate offence was by skating fast. But because they were often the fastest on the ice, they got away with it.

He's not someone that should be playing a feature role, offensively or defensively. But as a (highly versatile) supporting piece? I've got a ton of time for him.

Coulda shoulda woulda with the first part referring to an Ekholm Nurse pairing. And keeping Bouchard's minutes down while keeping his contract ask to a reasonable number. And by reasonable I mean paying the player what he is actually worth to the team. I said as much at the trade deadline. If Bouchard wants more than Barrie's last contract he should be moved.

I see a fantastic opportunity in trading Bouchard. We won't have to pay him an inflated salary and if traded this allows his new team to negotiate the terms of the player's contract.

I think the Oilers could get an tremendous return for Bouchard and in that deal we could get our trading partner to take a less desirable contract off our hands in addition to Bouchard.

This could open up ample cap space to re-sign all our free agents and sign an interesting UFA. This on top of the actual return we would receive for Bouchard, and that return could play for the team.

If it's picks included in a Bouchard trade we could turn those picks into an acquisition/acquisitions at the deadline. And I think you could get a haul of picks included in a transaction for Bouchard.

Bouchard's value may be the equivalent to three first round draft picks in the 10-15 range. Or maybe a first, a 2nd and a top prospect. Trade the picks and develop the prospect. It would be a bold move and it could pay off and set us up to win it all next year and far beyond next year if this activeness becomes the catalyst for McDavid and Draisaitl extensions.

As long as McLeod makes around 1M he has positive value. If his contract is 1.5M I believe he would have negative value.

Those are some interesting comparables. But I don't see a Marco Sturm in McLeod. Maybe Dvorak if he continues to improve. Chimera had a physical aspect to his game that I don't see in McLeod. I can see a Kostin compared to Chimera. Pure energy and fun to watch.

 

[MessierII]

I think I'd like to see Ekholm playing on his off side paired with Nurse.

Then play Broberg with Bouchard on the third pairing.

Bouchard can still play the first unit pp and as Broberg and Bouchard improve they can receive increased ice time.

Then you have Kulak and Ceci as your second pairing and Desharnais as our number 7.

Ekholm and Nurse can log huge minutes.

That’s a terrible idea. Bouchard has consistently played at a high level with vets. Both Keith and Ekholm brought out the best in him. Anyone else and he’s struggled.

 

[Broberg Speed]

That’s a terrible idea. Bouchard has consistently played at a high level with vets. Both Keith and Ekholm brought out the best in him. Anyone else and he’s struggled.

Bouchard has played at a high level with vets, more or less, and not consistently.

He plays particularly well on the pp when he's moving his feet like Tyson Barrie and releasing the bouchbombs. That's the reason we could get a great return, cap relief and win a Stanley Cup in the bargain if we parlay the return.

Then we can re-sign McDavid and Draisaitl to max-term extensions

 

[CycloneSweep]

I think I'd like to see Ekholm playing on his off side paired with Nurse.

Then play Broberg with Bouchard on the third pairing.

Bouchard can still play the first unit pp and as Broberg and Bouchard improve they can receive increased ice time.

Then you have Kulak and Ceci as your second pairing and Desharnais as our number 7.

Ekholm and Nurse can log huge minutes.

Ekholm objectively has played much worse on his off side.
This plan is baffling and would just lead to further setback in both Bouchard and Broberg and probably just have a worse dcore overall.

Bouchard has played at a high level with vets, more or less, and not consistently.

He plays particularly well on the pp when he's moving his feet like Tyson Barrie and releasing the bouchbombs. That's the reason we could get a great return, cap relief and win a Stanley Cup in the bargain if we parlay the return.

Then we can re-sign McDavid and Draisaitl to max-term extensions

Ahh yes. Let’s move out our only good young defender cause reasons.

 

[Broberg Speed]

Ekholm objectively has played much worse on his off side.
This plan is baffling and would just lead to further setback in both Bouchard and Broberg and probably just have a worse dcore overall.


Ahh yes. Let’s move out our only good young defender cause reasons.

You don't know how a Nurse Ekholm pairing would look. It just may be elite in this league. Maybe we should give it a try. Nothing wrong with having an elite NHL defensive pairing. Everything wrong if you are pigheaded enough to not even try it. And no, Ekholm Bouchard are not an elite NHL pairing.

You are consistent in your overeating the importance of Bouchard to the Edmonton Oilers and Bouchard in general. He's good on the powerplay when he emulates Barrie and McDavid reminds him to keep his feet moving. At the defending part of the game Bouchard is not that good. Troublesome when you consider his shortcomings are consistent back to his days in major junior. And he's likely looking for a contract he will not live up to.

 

[CycloneSweep]

You don't know how a Nurse Ekholm pairing would look. It just may be elite in this league. Maybe we should give it a try. Nothing wrong with having an elite NHL defensive pairing. Everything wrong if you are pigheaded enough to not even try it. And no, Ekholm Bouchard are not an elite NHL pairing.

You are consistent in your overeating the importance of Bouchard to the Edmonton Oilers and Bouchard in general. He's good on the powerplay when he emulates Barrie and McDavid reminds him to keep his feet moving. At the defending part of the game Bouchard is not that good. Troublesome when you consider his shortcomings are consistent back to his days in major junior. And he's likely looking for a contract he will not live up to.

And you are underrating his impact on the team and the fact he is the only right shot d in the org that’s really worth anything.
If you want to move a young defender, you move Broberg. Team is good left d wise.

As for pairing wise, sure, you could try Nurse with Kulak as the top pairing, could be elite, who knows. The point is, Ekholm is a great defender on his left side and only good on his left. A ton of how he plays would be hampered on his off side and wouldn’t be an elite pairing.

We need to find a right d to play with Nurse and not just have a top pair and 2 third pairs. None of Broberg, Ceci or Kulak are guys who you should be running in your top 4 for a ton of time. Ceci can as a second pair with a good partner. The other guys are simply a good 3rd pairing d and then Broberg who is a 7/8 d

 

[Broberg Speed]

And you are underrating his impact on the team and the fact he is the only right shot d in the org that’s really worth anything.
If you want to move a young defender, you move Broberg. Team is good left d wise.

As for pairing wise, sure, you could try Nurse with Kulak as the top pairing, could be elite, who knows. The point is, Ekholm is a great defender on his left side and only good on his left. A ton of how he plays would be hampered on his off side and wouldn’t be an elite pairing.

We need to find a right d to play with Nurse and not just have a top pair and 2 third pairs. None of Broberg, Ceci or Kulak are guys who you should be running in your top 4 for a ton of time. Ceci can as a second pair with a good partner. The other guys are simply a good 3rd pairing d and then Broberg who is a 7/8 d

The return for Broberg probably wouldn't be all that significant but if you insist on repeating this ad nausea trying to get a rise, fine trade Broberg. If it will improve the team.

Now you can stop calling me his uncle, his dad and all the other nonsense you seem to get away with. It was all very funny, CS. haha

At what price point does Bouchard become a boat anchor?

At what return does it make sense to trade Bouchard?

Bouchard's value in a trade is never going to be higher than it is before the draft and before he signs his next contract.

Once he signs that next contract he may find himself the most ridiculed player on the Edmonton Oilers.

 

[Whyme]

I know it's past and only time will be the final judge but... Right now Zegras and Wallstedt would have more trading value if the team is/was after an elite forward and a goalie. Just wanted to mention this as some over here took it quite badly when other fans didn't agree with the picks at the time. Again, things can always change in the future, but I think Zegras (or what he'd be traded for) would be a good piece in the top 6 and trading Wallstedt as the main piece would be just about the only way to have a chance at getting an elite goalie if they didn't want to wait for him to potentially grow into one.

 

[FlameChampion]

I think I'd like to see Ekholm playing on his off side paired with Nurse.

Then play Broberg with Bouchard on the third pairing.

Bouchard can still play the first unit pp and as Broberg and Bouchard improve they can receive increased ice time.

Then you have Kulak and Ceci as your second pairing and Desharnais as our number 7.

Ekholm and Nurse can log huge minutes.

Playing Ekholm and Nurse together is an interesting theory. I dont think this is something that can be done in the regular season though because I dont think either guy logging huge minutes should be the recipe. Oilers need to figure out a way to balance the ice time better (especially the forwards).

The thing with the d-core is that they never even attempted to try different scenerios in the regular season or playoffs. Nurse-Ceci was pretty much set from Day 1 and it never got changed (even though the pairing struggled). We still dont really know what we have in Broberg.

Meanwhile with the forwards, it seemed like it was always a blender with guys playing all over the place. Some of it was 11-7 related but seemed like the forward lines were never established ever during the year. And while it was never established, guys like Kostin, Bjugstad etc barely or never even got a whiff of the top 6.

 

[Louis Cypher]

The Oilers lost to an all around superior team playing the preferable brand of hockey. The Oil got beat in almost every aspect not just at even strength.

It was hockey men playing against hockey boys and I'm not just talking about the physical aspect of the game.

They have the superior system and they played to win.

The Oilers were fundamentally outcoached in all but a very few categories.

Exaggerate much?
In the 2 games we won we dominated. We play like that we win the cup.

Inconsistent play, weak goaltending and lack of secondary scoring sewered us in the other games.

We need small tweaks and some internal growth is all.

Woody not sure. He's good and the players like him so moving him could be more detrimental than a 10 game coaching bumb. We all know any coach will have a "Fire" thread within a few months around here.

 

[Lacaar]

I think the biggest thing holding Broberg back is he's really easy to play against.

He obviously skates well and is in position. But that's about all you can say about him.
The rare.. too rare.. nice play once in awhile.

He doesn't have to turn into a destroyer of wingers by any means. But his game needs to change from passive to assertive in all areas of the ice.

Sometimes you got to take the ice time away from other players. He hasn't demonstrated the ability to do this.