Player Discussion Philip Broberg - Berries are brewing

bobbythebrain

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Jul 30, 2016
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And what magical plays is Bouchard making from his own end that Kulak , Broberg and even Desharnais aren't.
He is great offensively sure but far from a reliable Dman defensively.

Like McLeod, Skinner, Broberg etc, Bouchard also has much to improve upon. I am sure he will get better and his controller disconnects and brain farts will be much reduced as he gains experience.

If you believe that Bro, DD and Kulak are in the same vicinity in generating clean and controlled zone exits as Bouchard, then i would have to truly challenge that you even watch Oilers games.

The 3 you mentioned generally get the puck off their sticks by using the boards and forcing the winger to make a play, or flipping it out.
 
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LTIR

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If you believe that Bro, DD and Kulak are in the same vicinity in generating clean and controlled zone exits as Bouchard, then i would have to truly challenge that you even watch Oilers games.

The 3 you mentioned generally get the puck off their sticks by using the boards and forcing the winger to make a play, or flipping it out.
Sure, explains why Bocuhard had more giveaways than any Oiler not named Draisaitl the last couple seasons.

There is a lot more to playing defense than making higher risk outlet passes.
 

bobbythebrain

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Jul 30, 2016
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Sure, explains why Bocuhard had more giveaways than any Oiler not named Draisaitl the last couple seasons.

There is a lot more to playing defense than making higher risk outlet passes.

What's that saying? The best players have the most giveaways?

Anyway, he doesn't have the most giveaways among dmen . I'd argue Nurse and Ceci do. I could care less how these stats are measured. They're wrong..

When players like Nurse or Ceci consistently defualt to the boards regardless of situation...it often ends in a giveaway. When a winger being blanketed by a pinching dman fails to turn and get it out, or outlet a pass to the middle, it's the dmans fault for making that play in the first place half the time.
When players like Nurse ice the puck or flip it out for no reason.... GIVEAWAY
When Ceci crosses center while ignoring 2 passes he could have made earlier, then dumps it so weakly it doesn't rim around the net.....GIVEAWAY.

So technically and stupidly Bouchard may be credited with more giveaways, he definitely doesn't. Compared to any other dman on the team, he makes a play 70% more times to put it on a players stick who is able to skate or has time.

So while you and BS focus on the bad giveaways (drastically reduced since Ekholm), you fail to recognize the 20x or more a game he makes or generates clean exits.

There's more to playing defense than just getting rid of the puck so you don't take the negative stat
 
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Broberg Speed

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What's that saying? The best players have the most giveaways?

Anyway, he doesn't have the most giveaways among dmen . I'd argue Nurse and Ceci do. I could care less how these stats are measured. They're wrong..

When players like Nurse or Ceci consistently defualt to the boards regardless of situation...it often ends in a giveaway. When a winger being blanketed by a pinching dman fails to turn and get it out, or outlet a pass to the middle, it's the dmans fault for making that play in the first place half the time.
When players like Nurse ice the puck or flip it out for no reason.... GIVEAWAY
When Ceci crosses center while ignoring 2 passes he could have made earlier, then dumps it so weakly it doesn't rim around the net.....GIVEAWAY.

So technically and stupidly Bouchard may be credited with more giveaways, he definitely doesn't. Compared to any other dman on the team, he makes a play 70% more times to put it on a players stick who is able to skate or has time.

So while you and BS focus on the bad giveaways (drastically reduced since Ekholm), you fail to recognize the 20x or more a game he makes or generates clean exits.

There's more to playing defense than just getting rid of the puck so you don't take the negative stat
If Bouchard was put in Nurse's position partnered with Ceci (RD & RD, it doesn't matter for hypothetical purposes), with all the same matchups, the team would have to score 5 or more goals a game to even have a chance at winning.
 

Broberg Speed

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Puck moving D-men give away the puck more than stay at home D-men. More at 11.

It does matter how many times a game a puck moving defenceman is turning over the puck, and it's relative.

What players are out on the ice that he's passing too, a puck moving defenseman can rack up points like Barrie when he led all defenseman in scoring because of quality of players he's passing to. And what players are on the ice that can read the play and pick off those passes.

Many categories of wins and loses that in the end add up to wins and loses in "playoffs games and playoff series" when everyone is playing for keeps and one mistake can be very costly.

Take into consideration how many lost battles and missed assignments a defenceman has in their own zone. Does that defenseman recognise his assignment? It doesn't matter if we have other prominent defensemen that also cannot and I'd argue much comes down to the defensive system being coached! Does the defenseman show urgency when that's all that will prevent a goal against? How does that defenseman stand up at the blue line to prevent zone entries, prevent odd man rushes, and not give clear real estate to the slot to giving up high probability scoring chances? Can they prevent the opposition from finding the seams? And most importantly, the most unrecognized aspect of defensive hockey for a defenseman, are the plays they make repeatable? Because if that puck moving defenseman does one thing on one given shift and another thing the next shift, "the team will be garbage". "Any goaltender playing in front of unpredictable defensive structure will look like garbage."

Evey great goaltender, no matter how talented the team in front of him is, has players that play a level of defence that is 99.9% predictable to that goaltender; to the extent he doesn't even have to think about the unfolding play, because he's just making save after save. The definition of routine.

Nobody is attacking Bouchard. He's a good player with beautiful passing ability and great on the pp, when he keeps his feet moving; posters are rightfully pointing out Bouchard has "many holes in his game" and while he will continue to improve and iron out some of the wrinkles, he's never going to be an elite defenseman. He's going to be in the mold of other offensive defensemen who have notable deficiencies to their games. And you can't overpay a defenseman like that.

Bouchard's contract has to be reasonable, team friendly in amount and term. If not it should be recognized that Bouchard's value is at an all time high when the Edmonton Oilers find themselves in a bit of a cap crunch.

As I said before it shouldn't be out of the question that many of the team's shortcomings could be corrected with trading Bouchard and juggling the assets received in that trade with other assets, parts and pieces to make the Oilers an unstoppable force.
 

bobbythebrain

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Somebody doesn't realize that transitioning the puck IS a current problem for the Oilers.
Seems somebody doesn't understand hockey enough to recall the games in which Vegas dominated us came as a result of long bouts of sustained pressure b/c far too many dmen on the team were using the boards and their dmen were pinching the puck or the wingers off with ease.

Saying that the Oilers should trade away our most consistent puck transitioning dman to better the team makes zero sense
 

Broberg Speed

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Somebody doesn't realize that transitioning the puck IS a current problem for the Oilers.
Seems somebody doesn't understand hockey enough to recall the games in which Vegas dominated us came as a result of long bouts of sustained pressure b/c far too many dmen on the team were using the boards and their dmen were pinching the puck or the wingers off with ease.

Saying that the Oilers should trade away our most consistent puck transitioning dman to better the team makes zero sense
I don't deny Bouchard's breakout efficiency, not once have I, but you fail to recognize Bouchard shit the bed against Vegas.

And it's extremely difficult to win a championship in this league with players that shit the bed no matter the skill set they possess.
 

ChaoticOrange

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Jun 29, 2008
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I don't deny Bouchard's breakout efficiency, not once have I, but you fail to recognize Bouchard shit the bed against Vegas.

And it's extremely difficult to win a championship in this league with players that shit the bed no matter the skill set they possess.
Ah yes, I definitely expect reasoned arguments about Broberg from a guy called Broberg Speed.

Bouchard isn’t even in the top ten reasons of why we lost to Vegas my man
 

Broberg Speed

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Ah yes, I definitely expect reasoned arguments about Broberg from a guy called Broberg Speed.

Bouchard isn’t even in the top ten reasons of why we lost to Vegas my man
What the hell are you talking about? I'm fully willing to move on from Broberg being a member of the Edmonton Oilers as long as there is a decent return for the player. How many times do I have to specify this?

If Broberg is included in a package to get a player or players that would bring the Oilers one step closer to a Stanley Cup I would not hesitate in moving him.

And if you want Holland to hand out another meteoric horrocity of a contract out to a talented but extremely flawed player like Bouchard keep on pumping his tires.
 
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ChaoticOrange

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What the hell are you talking about? I'm fully willing to move on from Broberg being a member of the Edmonton Oilers as long as there is a decent return for the player. How many times do I have to specify this?

If Broberg is included in a package to get a player or players that would bring the Oilers one step closer to a Stanley Cup I would not hesitate in moving him.

And if you want Holland to hand out another meteoric horrocity of a contract out to a talented but extremely flawed player like Bouchard keep on pumping his tires.
If Bouchard is talented but extremely flawed, what in the hell do you think Broberg is? At least Bouchard is good at SOME things.
 
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Broberg Speed

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If Bouchard is talented but extremely flawed, what in the hell do you think Broberg is? At least Bouchard is good at SOME things.
Trade bait that will get you very little vs trade bait that will return the equivalent of three mid-first-round draft picks... that could be parlayed into building a Stanley Cup winning team next year.

Then re-signing Draisaitl and McDavid so we can win some more Stanley Cups.
 

ChaoticOrange

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Jun 29, 2008
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Trade bait that will get you very little vs trade bait that will return the equivalent of three mid-first-round draft picks... that could be parlayed into building a Stanley Cup winning team next year.

Then re-signing Draisaitl and McDavid so we can win some more Stanley Cups.
What use does a team like Edmonton have for mid first round picks? :laugh: how much do you like a right side of Ceci and Desharnais??
 
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Broberg Speed

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What use does a team like Edmonton have for mid first round picks? :laugh: how much do you like a right side of Ceci and Desharnais??
Trade those picks and other assets to get a defenceman that is better than Bouchard and buying cap space so the Edmonton Oilers can get out from under cap hell.

And other stuff to dramatically improve the club so we don't have to rely on Ceci and Desharnais... so we don't have to depend on Evan Bouchard and the bumbling defensive plays to take us on a Stanley Cup winning ride!
 

bobbythebrain

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Can anyone OTHER than BS point out how many goals were Bouchards fault directly? Hell, I can think of 3 goals between McD/Drai that were their fault also. Why is someone holding Bouchard..a player with less than 200 games, to a higher standard?

I mean Bouch definately made some mistakes...but to credit him as a major factor in losing that series...how confused do you have to be
 

Lacaar

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Jan 25, 2012
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46 games played. 2 penalty minutes.

That's fine if you're anticipating plays and beating opponents to pucks, a breakout machine with some offensive gumption. but I've seen little of that from him. The game doesn't seem to come naturally to him so he's going to have to learn it and we don't have the time to babysit him for 300 NHL games.

I'd describe Broberg as a fantastic skater with average hockey sense. Stuck in a boys body, getting boys injuries and is super easy to play against.
 
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2for1PizzaPastuh

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Jan 13, 2023
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when's bro going to turn into a real top 4 cup caliber D? when we drafted him, talk was that he'd be ready by 21-22, and, if we had to really push it, 22-23.

well, 22-23 has just passed. he doesn't seem like he's going to be a difference maker in 23-24, and there isn't much to suggest that he'll be a needle mover in 24-25 either....
 

Broberg Speed

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Can anyone OTHER than BS point out how many goals were Bouchards fault directly? Hell, I can think of 3 goals between McD/Drai that were their fault also. Why is someone holding Bouchard..a player with less than 200 games, to a higher standard?

I mean Bouch definately made some mistakes...but to credit him as a major factor in losing that series...how confused do you have to be
There you go, baby steps... Bouchard definitely makes really bad defensive mistakes.
 

bucks_oil

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Aug 25, 2005
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We went into the season this year with

Nurse
Kulak
?

As our left side. He had all the opportunity in the world

You may not recall, but we could not keep him up to start the season due to cap issues.

Then he came up and played pretty decent for 11 games before getting a concussion, which took him a while to recover from.

He didn't blow the doors off, but he took a big step forward from last year. If we see another step this year (in assertiveness) he will pass Kulak just based on his skating alone (and Kulak is no slouch in that department).
 

Broberg Speed

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We all hoped Broberg's progression would be a lot further along than it currently is. Didn't he play through training camp with an injury? Because it's clear to me Kesselring should have been ahead of Broberg on the depth chart coming out of camp. And Kesselring is a RD.

So is Broberg's value a third-line center rental or is Holland too stubborn to even deal him?
 

MessierII

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You may not recall, but we could not keep him up to start the season due to cap issues.

Then he came up and played pretty decent for 11 games before getting a concussion, which took him a while to recover from.

He didn't blow the doors off, but he took a big step forward from last year. If we see another step this year (in assertiveness) he will pass Kulak just based on his skating alone (and Kulak is no slouch in that department).
I recall broberg having a really bad camp and not looking deserving at all.
 

Bryanbryoil

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Sep 13, 2004
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Ekholm, Nurse and Kulak are signed for the next 3ish years at least. I would absolutely trade Broberg to a team that could retain cap on an upgrade for Ceci that can afford to wait on Broberg's development.
 
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