Paul Coffey vs. Erik Karlsson

[MCR74]

Close those poll. It's laughable to even suggest Karlsson could outdo a prime Paul Coffey. The polling numbers are probably just a bunch of 18 year Olds voting Karlsson and everyone else voting one of the greatest offensive machines in NHL history in any position.

I'm waiting for the inevitable "Karlsson v. Bobby Orr" poll. You know it's coming.

 

[Karl Eriksson]

Karlsson, he did it on worse teams

 

[McFlash97]

So, because you have an opinion, no one else can possibly have a different one? And if over 25% disagree, then they must all be idiots. It has nothing to do with being a known massive Oilers homer. Nothing at all.

Not only that, but you're so sensitive that you can't even handle there being a discussion about it - so you ask to close the discussion. The term 'Snowflake' comes to mind on that one.

Got it. Lol

No your right. Close this thread. Coffey wins in a landslide. Thanks for trying OP

 

[MCR74]

The voting is unanimous. This one is done.

 

[Voight]

Wayne and Mario have their hand in this.

Sure it helped that he got to play with those two but as its been stated previously in this thread, he still had great seasons without them. Even when he played with Lemieux, he produced the same if not better when Mario missed games.

 

[Bouboumaster]

Voted for Karlsson

What Karlsson did with top tier SHIT teams like the Sens (they weren't always that bad but reality is that Karlsson was always the best player there) and especially the Sharks is incredible

Meanwhile, Coffey put up a legendary career for sure, but he played with Prime Gretzky and Prime Lemieux, among others

It's not a knock against Coffey, but IMO, Karlsson did almost as good, but with far less

 

[wetcoast]

The voting is unanimous. This one is done.

Closing polls is one thing but then discussion doesn't occur.

Mind you it's been going in circles for a bit...

 

[KevinRedkey]

The voting is unanimous. This one is done.

 

[wetcoast]

View attachment 745626

Oh the irony.....

 

[KevinRedkey]

Oh the irony.....

Dictionary: u·nan·i·mous
(of an opinion, decision, or vote) held or carried by everyone involved.

70-183 is not a unanimous vote. That is a fact, and you don't need to be an English professor to understand it.

Do I also need to educate you on what the word irony means? Because unless you can point out what I did that's ironic related to me correcting a misused word (you won't) - it seems like you're repeating the same mistake your buddy MCR74 just did - which is grossly misusing a word... hence the meme.

But go ahead and enlighten us all. Point out the "irony". lol

On a side note:
It appears I'm trying to have a discussion with people who quite literally don't understand the basic definitions of the words "irony" and "unanimous". I guess I really am the fool for thinking any of this was worth discussing with these types of people anyways. Shame on me.

 

[wetcoast]

Dictionary: u·nan·i·mous
(of an opinion, decision, or vote) held or carried by everyone involved.

70-183 is not a unanimous vote. That is a fact, and you don't need to be an English professor to understand it.

Do I also need to educate you on what the word irony means? Because unless you can point out what I did that's ironic related to me correcting a misused word (you won't) - it seems like you're repeating the same mistake your buddy MCR74 just did - which is grossly misusing a word... hence the meme.

But go ahead and enlighten us all. Point out the "irony". lol

The irony is that you posted this.

Yes - I think last year's version of EK likely would have hit more than 138 points on the Coffey-less Oilers from 1985-86.

If you look at the 7 full seasons EK has played since he broke out, and you apply his point% vs team goals scored, this is what it looks like:

2011-12	32.10%
2013-14	32.31%
2014-15	28.45%
2015-16	35.65%
2016-17	34.47%
2017-18	28.31%
2022-23	43.35%

Now if you adjust that to his team scoring 426 goals like the Oilers did in 1985-86, you get:

2011-12	137 points
2013-14	138 points
2014-15	121 points
2015-16	152 points
2016-17	147 points
2017-18	121 points
2022-23	185 points

The average of the table above is 143 points.

I'm not suggesting he hits 185 or averages 143. I get that he would likely get a lower point% overall, and that being a low-scoring team probably inflates that spacific stat at least a little bit.

What I am suggesting is he would still get more than 138 at the absolute peak of his career on a team with as much firepower as that Oilers team. At his peak, Risto Siltanen was literally a point-per-game defenceman on a similar Oilers team. Gary Suter hit 91 points on a Flames team that had 397 goals. These are not EK/Coffey-level defencemen but they racked up points because their teams simply scored a stupid amount. Combine that with how effective/efficient EK is offensively and I believe he eclipses 138. You can disagree which is fine.

Now let me ask you this...
Karlsson got 101 points on a team that scored 234 goals. Do you think it's unreasonable to suggest he may have gotten an extra 38 points if his team had scored an extra 192 goals (426 total)? Or rather than aswering that - how many points do you think he'd have gotten? Clearly less than 138 - but what's your number exactly? What seems "realistic' to you?

Sure the poll isn't unanimous but it's more telling and "realistic: than your table was.

 

[KevinRedkey]

The irony is that you posted this.


Sure the poll isn't unanimous but it's more telling and "realistic: than your table was.

Yeah - that's not what irony means, man.

In fact... since we're on HF, i'll leave you with:
AINEC

 

[wetcoast]

Yeah - that's not what irony means, man.

In fact... since we're on HF, i'll leave you with:
AINEC

I'll repeat it was ironic that you posted this when you're a little imaginative with the word realistic.

Either way most people have Coffey ahead and it's unlikely to change much if at all.

 

[Raccoon Jesus]

It's more than a little silly to 'aha gotcha' over semantics when the crux of your argument is literally made up numbers.

 

[Run the Gauntlet]

To my eyes Karlsson looks more talented than Coffey.
But he has only achieved a fraction of what Coffey achieved.
He is already 33 and the chances of winning a championship are dwindling, maybe he'll do it with the Penguins?
His best numbers are the adjusted numbers.
His "real" numbers look very good but not great.
His playoff numbers are below average except for OT points

 

[Bouboumaster]

Oh the irony.....

He's right tho

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Dictionary: u·nan·i·mous
(of an opinion, decision, or vote) held or carried by everyone involved.

70-183 is not a unanimous vote. That is a fact, and you don't need to be an English professor to understand it.

Do I also need to educate you on what the word irony means? Because unless you can point out what I did that's ironic related to me correcting a misused word (you won't) - it seems like you're repeating the same mistake your buddy MCR74 just did - which is grossly misusing a word... hence the meme.

But go ahead and enlighten us all. Point out the "irony". lol

On a side note:
It appears I'm trying to have a discussion with people who quite literally don't understand the basic definitions of the words "irony" and "unanimous". I guess I really am the fool for thinking any of this was worth discussing with these types of people anyways. Shame on me.

If not unanimous, extremely heavily lopsided.

 

[KevinRedkey]

If not unanimous, extremely heavily lopsided.

Debatable but at least not factually incorrect.

It's more than a little silly to 'aha gotcha' over semantics when the crux of your argument is literally made up numbers.

Who made up numbers?

 

[norrisnick]

Who made up numbers?

This guy.

Post in thread 'Paul Coffey vs. Erik Karlsson' Paul Coffey vs. Erik Karlsson

 

[Pukboy5kroner]

Glad Coffey is being appreciated more with time.

 

[KevinRedkey]

This guy.

Post in thread 'Paul Coffey vs. Erik Karlsson' Paul Coffey vs. Erik Karlsson

Need I reply with the Princess Bride meme again?

Just because you don't understand simple data extrapolation, doesn't mean it's 'literally made up'. Unless you're a child - you should know the difference.

Then again - this is the thread with people who don't know what "irony" or "unanimous" mean...

 

[GreatGonzo]

Need I reply with the Princess Bride meme again?

Just because you don't understand simple data extrapolation, doesn't mean it's 'literally made up'. Unless you're a child - you should know the difference.

Then again - this is the thread with people who don't know what "irony" or "unanimous" mean...

Didn’t you call a poster a douchebag
because he pointed out how flawed your argument was?

 

[wetcoast]

He's right tho

He isn't right about the made up numbers and faulty projections conclusions from them...glass houses eh?

 

[wetcoast]

Need I reply with the Princess Bride meme again?

Just because you don't understand simple data extrapolation, doesn't mean it's 'literally made up'. Unless you're a child - you should know the difference.

Then again - this is the thread with people who don't know what "irony" or "unanimous" mean...

The thing is that your extrapolation is based on flawed assumptions and heck it was "proven wrong" when he joined a team that scored more goals in San Jose 18-19 than Ottawa did in 17-18.

It was beyond bad faulty logic and will be proven again this upcoming year where Karlsson team will score more goals than San Jose last year but his points will go down..

 

[KevinRedkey]

The thing is that your extrapolation is based on flawed assumptions and heck it was "proven wrong" when he joined a team that scored more goals in San Jose 18-19 than Ottawa did in 17-18.

It was beyond bad faulty logic and will be proven again this upcoming year where Karlsson team will score more goals than San Jose last year but his points will go down..

Taking lesser performances in injury riddled seasons is irrelevant to a conversation about peak and/or hypothetical peak performance given different eras.

You seem to be arguing just for the sake of arguing at this point.