Speculation: NYR FIRESALE

[5cotland]

Damn man. All you Nash haters really need to re-evaluate your opinion on this guy.

"Nash at 33% for 2nd & 3rd" - Are you serious?

I dont care that the guy is not smashing 40 goals a season but the guy has some serious talent and the offers for him on here are an absolute joke.

The last few seasons he has not played up to his ability but the guy can would be an instant top line/top 6 player on nearly all the teams in the league.

If Ryan Reaves can fetch a 1st rounder, Martin Hanzal returns multiple picks and Brayden Schenn returns Lehtera & 2 possible 1st rounders then Rick Nash would fetch a very high return for NYR.

If we fail to make the play-offs, I see Nash being a top trade target for all teams and 2x first rounders + will definitely be the starting point, especially if NYR retain 50%.

Nash is a game changing player regardless of what team he plays for and what his salary is. Im not saying he is on the level of Crosby or Ovi but he is a massive talent in the league and dont feel he deserves some of the sh!t that is thrown his way.

Even in his last 3 years he has still been hitting 0.70 PPG. His play off performances has even vastly improved over the last 3 years as well.

 

[Ori]

If Nash was that we would have 2 pts last night. Nash has been off since 2015.

 

[5cotland]

Nash done everything but score last night. Played a great game.

McDonagh and some bad luck was the reason we lost last night.

 

[One Winged Angel]

The reason they lost last night is the fact that they can't hold a one goal lead late and a boneheaded decision from McDonagh.

Nash has nothing to do with any of that. With all of that being said, he won't be here next year.

 

[Ori]

Nash need to score on that pass from Zucc last game - he had almost open net and was past Murray. If he scored - we would get 2 pts no matter what Sid did in the last minute.

 

[bernmeister]

Why did NY trade Stepan and Raanta to AZ again?

B'c they needed to get younger, faster, cheaper.
B'c Stepan was always a good, productive player but ordinary not extraordinary who would never go past his current production plateau, and was now getting top $ for that. Was always worth more to us in trade, and should have been moved LONG ago, when he and Staal and Girardi [both mobile and worth something then] would have returned Taylor Hall.
All that, plus he would have earned a virtual NMC, which had to be defeated by trade.
No rant on Raanta, just selling high.

Nash at 33% retained for a 2nd and a 3rd.

A little too much outside the ballpark. NY needs only one buyer, and the market will pay more.

Nash + Grabner + Puempel + NYR 2018 2nd for Puljujarvi + EDM 2018 1st + cap dump Fayne +
Edmonton demoted Jesse Puljujarvi, with nice size and skating, but is he ready? Was he worth a 4OA? Nash 23 + Grabner 27 potted 50 last year, and it is not a stretch to see Nash at 30+ if he plays w/Draisatil + McDavid on PP. Both have size and speed and Grabner is a threat on the PK. Solidifies W talent level; Puempel may crack bottom 6, also solid depth add. Expedites removal of Fayne. JP may or may not turn into a great player, but he will certainly not do THAT this year. Loss of 1st partially offset by Ranger 2nd. Win now move but flip side is roster flexibility going forward with the acquisitions.
Rangers add youth and a pick.

 

[Ori]

That was a surprisingly good trade offer @bernmeister - so we keep Zucc next year?

 

[cwgatti]

NYR are in complete disarray. They need to make a trade that will just balance the lineup and letthem settle in.
I would 1000% trade Kreider+ for a legit NHL Center. Maybe Hayes & Kreider+ for Duchene?
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO THEY TRADE JT MILLER!!!!

 

[Ori]

We can`t do that @cwgatti - we barely have top 9 wingers so Miller play out of position in a wing role. Hayes we can move for sure, but then Chytil need to be called up and AHL is best for him right now. And we can`t recall Lias A. his schedule has been insane this year since he was first drafted this summer - back and forth to Sweden and NA.

Besides we can`t afford Duchene contract in 2019 so not a good solution - when Nash is gone after this 2017/18 season - we need that salary for our young talents and Miller`s next contract + a two year contract for Zucc if we have any plans to get Lias A. going next year and feed him good passes so he can finish play.

 

[bernmeister]

NYR are in complete disarray. They need to make a trade that will just balance the lineup and letthem settle in.
I would 1000% trade Kreider+ for a legit NHL Center. Maybe Hayes & Kreider+ for Duchene?
UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO THEY TRADE JT MILLER!!!!

No on general grounds of most deals are not for sake of making a deal or coke for pepsi complementary switch of = ish talent [LD for RD, for example], but instead is for purposes of profit [talent upgrade, either immediate or long term]. Duchene is a bad investment at anything not a cheap price. He holds all the cards, you have to overpay to get him, and in 2 years he can walk.

Your prop, respectfully reduces our overall talent and depth. Plus, Hayes, Vesey were UFA college guys who did not have to come here. You can't be too quick to trade them and dis their right to choose a home. [Vets are different, they have already gotten fair treatment, typically thru the draft. College UFA guys typically reject their draft selection to gain independence, and cannot be betrayed.] In case of Hayes, who continues to improve every year, only 25 yrs old, big guy w/long reach needed in pivot, the smart play is NOT to trade. Create max cap space, sign long term, reduce annual cap hit. reasonable NTC, no NMC. IF IF IF IF and only IF necessary, THEN trade Hayes who would have approved terms of potentially being deal on his extension, which will have been long enough to be fair and does not turn off any potential college UFA.

 

[cwgatti]

I love Zucc, but he is tradable as well.

 

[bernmeister]

That was a surprisingly good trade offer @bernmeister - so we keep Zucc next year?

Thanks for the big like, Ori.
I like Zuc a lot, McDonagh even more. But I think the smart play is to follow what the Yankees did with Chapman. Get a boatload of assets; then maybe welcome the player(s) back if $ and everything else is a fit.

IMO, as you may have seen at our roster building thread, I have a multiple trade scenario for NYR. Therein, in addition to this deal, I suggested first moving McD ++ including Staal for Liljegren, Leafs 1st +++.

I then prop'ed the following which I put in the next post for space reasons....

 

[cwgatti]

Great point Bern, but I still look to move Kreider for max return. His stock is dropping like a rock. (A very FAST rock).
If I interpret your reply accurately, you would suggest that the NYR should have stuck with Chytil and move Andersen up when ready?
That I agree with, but would mean canning the coach....which I have no problem with really.

 

[bernmeister]

.....
Smith + Zuc, both at half + Ranger 2nd 2021 [when Zuc expires] + Liljegren
for
Heiskanen + Gurianov + Pitlick + Dallas 2018 1st

Why Dallas: Key here is Liljegren a mid 1st selection replacing Stars pick who was 3OA. On paper so far that is a major downgrade. However, at half, Smith + Zuc bolster roster, Stars stronger everywhere except net. [Zuc takes Pitlick’s roster space; Smith is top 4 on competition, Stars probably carry an extra backliner, but is a good build move to replace expiring LD Hamhuis, age 34. Zuc may not start over Benn or Radulov, and instead go to 2nd line, but he is good insurance vs injury to either.] Also, while Stars have added to already impressive firepower, there is thought Seguin may want a megacontract which Dallas cannot afford. While not a pivot, having productive scorer would help if Seguin is moved, especially if for futures. And at half price that is huge, because it creates 6 total years of roster flexibility (4 for Smith, 2 for Zucarello) which helps both as to roster, but also adding and development of youth. Gurianov is a former 1st, and he is expendable as Stars’ mix includes a handful of young forwards. Ditto signee Pitlick, also bottom 6 on a deep Dallas roster. NY 2nd is delayed, but somewhat offsets surrender of this year’s 1st. Unless there is agreement on cap dumps to NY, the extra 2ish m in net cap dif on this deal is manageable, esp since that temporary condition yields to the cap relief of 2 vets at half.

Why NY: The key here is Heiskanen. If he is all that and a bag of chips, this works out well as he is elc off roster this year, joining Skjei here next. IF he is the next Neidermayer, then this was worth it. As to the balance, Gurianov would look good w/Buchnevich, Pitlick will be upgrade over Desharnais. Rangers upgrade on swap of D prospects and future draft picks.

 

[Ori]

Ryan Mc. has an awful start of the season.
The main problem with that - we need players with good vision and creativity - I don`t see anyone who can replace Zucc at the moment until we draft winger maybe as early in 2018 draft. But I doubt the prospect is NHL ready in his first draft year.

 

[bert]

B'c they needed to get younger, faster, cheaper.
B'c Stepan was always a good, productive player but ordinary not extraordinary who would never go past his current production plateau, and was now getting top $ for that. Was always worth more to us in trade, and should have been moved LONG ago, when he and Staal and Girardi [both mobile and worth something then] would have returned Taylor Hall.
All that, plus he would have earned a virtual NMC, which had to be defeated by trade.
No rant on Raanta, just selling high.



A little too much outside the ballpark. NY needs only one buyer, and the market will pay more.

Nash + Grabner + Puempel + NYR 2018 2nd for Puljujarvi + EDM 2018 1st + cap dump Fayne +
Edmonton demoted Jesse Puljujarvi, with nice size and skating, but is he ready? Was he worth a 4OA? Nash 23 + Grabner 27 potted 50 last year, and it is not a stretch to see Nash at 30+ if he plays w/Draisatil + McDavid on PP. Both have size and speed and Grabner is a threat on the PK. Solidifies W talent level; Puempel may crack bottom 6, also solid depth add. Expedites removal of Fayne. JP may or may not turn into a great player, but he will certainly not do THAT this year. Loss of 1st partially offset by Ranger 2nd. Win now move but flip side is roster flexibility going forward with the acquisitions.
Rangers add youth and a pick.

Ya know there is a salary cap and that trades also awful.

 

[bernmeister]

Great point Bern, but I still look to move Kreider for max return. His stock is dropping like a rock. (A very FAST rock).
If I interpret your reply accurately, you would suggest that the NYR should have stuck with Chytil and move Andersen up when ready?
That I agree with, but would mean canning the coach....which I have no problem with really.

CW, thanks, but I disagree w/your assessment on CK.
In terms of actual production SO FAR THIS YEAR, he has been positive support for the breakout by Zib. Definitely part of the solution, not part of the problem. Ergo, if anyone wants him, and this is not a package one can typically replace as to raw ability, I want massive overpayment.

You claim his stock (perception) is falling, but if he were put on the market, the whole league would be lining up the door (reality).

A further note.
Kreider famously took over the last playoff game, when coach AV was at last made to bend, buckle and break, his stupidity finally being forced to try anything to win, and he let Kreider be Kreider. Almost overcame entire effort of a strong Sens team, largely single handed.

You can't play every shift of every game like that. Linemates and others on roster have to play as cohesive units excelling - not one guy take over.

Plus, that is like what Yankees once stupidly did with Dave Winfield. Yelled at him for now running our infield grounders hard enough. High risk, low reward, Wini pulled a hammy busting down the line, effed up his season.

Big picture. I want Kreider more or less doing what he is doing, improving continuously, and being an impact player long term into his mid 30s at min. Don't want him or anyone else burned out.
One small modification: he gets too beat up in front of the net because nobody else goes there and everybody else apparently can be moved. Keeping him in front of net CONSTANTLY is
predictable
recipe for getting banged up too much
deprives him of using his speed game for those minutes.

He should cover the net a proportionate amount of time, there's gotta be others we can groom/acquire to share that load.

 

[njdevil26]

I'll take Zucc on the Devils!

Hall-Hischier-Stafford
Johansson-Henrique-Palmieri
Zacha-Zajac-Zuccarello
Bratt-Coleman-Wood

 

[Trapper]

.....
Smith + Zuc, both at half + Ranger 2nd 2021 [when Zuc expires] + Liljegren
for
Heiskanen + Gurianov + Pitlick + Dallas 2018 1st

Why Dallas: Key here is Liljegren a mid 1st selection replacing Stars pick who was 3OA. On paper so far that is a major downgrade. However, at half, Smith + Zuc bolster roster, Stars stronger everywhere except net. [Zuc takes Pitlick’s roster space; Smith is top 4 on competition, Stars probably carry an extra backliner, but is a good build move to replace expiring LD Hamhuis, age 34. Zuc may not start over Benn or Radulov, and instead go to 2nd line, but he is good insurance vs injury to either.] Also, while Stars have added to already impressive firepower, there is thought Seguin may want a megacontract which Dallas cannot afford. While not a pivot, having productive scorer would help if Seguin is moved, especially if for futures. And at half price that is huge, because it creates 6 total years of roster flexibility (4 for Smith, 2 for Zucarello) which helps both as to roster, but also adding and development of youth. Gurianov is a former 1st, and he is expendable as Stars’ mix includes a handful of young forwards. Ditto signee Pitlick, also bottom 6 on a deep Dallas roster. NY 2nd is delayed, but somewhat offsets surrender of this year’s 1st. Unless there is agreement on cap dumps to NY, the extra 2ish m in net cap dif on this deal is manageable, esp since that temporary condition yields to the cap relief of 2 vets at half.

Why NY: The key here is Heiskanen. If he is all that and a bag of chips, this works out well as he is elc off roster this year, joining Skjei here next. IF he is the next Neidermayer, then this was worth it. As to the balance, Gurianov would look good w/Buchnevich, Pitlick will be upgrade over Desharnais. Rangers upgrade on swap of D prospects and future draft picks.

How did the Rangers acquire Liljegren? Seems like a bad deal for Toronto.

 

[bernmeister]

How did the Rangers acquire Liljegren? Seems like a bad deal for Toronto.

Gotta run for now, but let me extend courtesy reply w/follow up comment to any reply you have later.

McDonagh + Staal + NYR 2019 + 2020 2nds
for
Liljegren + Leafs 2018 1st + JVR expiring + cap dump Lupul + Marincin

Why Toronto: Hungry to get the show on the road. Expiring JVR not believed returning, his cap enables Staal who they can cut next year. However, unlike NY, Leafs can actually use Staal at 3LD if limited to 10mins/nite and paired with speedy RD partner. Dump Lupul even if only LTIR expiring, and Marincin, for whom buyers remorse. Delayed 1 yr, but 2 2nds are nice. Obviously, McD is key, delivering now and next year at cut rate. Might walk, but they have inside track for 2 years to extend him if mutually acceptable deal can get done. Already pushing cap, but team can juggle a few bodies and stay under.
Why NY: gets value while reducing glut at LD

 

[Trapper]

Gotta run for now, but let me extend courtesy reply w/follow up comment to any reply you have later.

McDonagh + Staal + NYR 2019 + 2020 2nds
for
Liljegren + Leafs 2018 1st + JVR expiring + cap dump Lupul + Marincin

Why Toronto: Hungry to get the show on the road. Expiring JVR not believed returning, his cap enables Staal who they can cut next year. However, unlike NY, Leafs can actually use Staal at 3LD if limited to 10mins/nite and paired with speedy RD partner. Dump Lupul even if only LTIR expiring, and Marincin, for whom buyers remorse. Delayed 1 yr, but 2 2nds are nice. Obviously, McD is key, delivering now and next year at cut rate. Might walk, but they have inside track for 2 years to extend him if mutually acceptable deal can get done. Already pushing cap, but team can juggle a few bodies and stay under.
Why NY: gets value while reducing glut at LD

1. Leafs show is on the road.

2. I like McD but I'm not interested in trading Lily and a 1st in 18 for McD who has 1 year left on his contract and then big dollars. We have to sign our players first before we see what fits. We need a solid RHD and Lily is a RHD. What he becomes remains to be seen, but I'd like to see. Dermott + Lily = ELC moving forward at present. Leaf fans are very excited for these 2. 18 is a very strong draft year and we can get another solid player.

3. If anything, I'd like to move JVR for an additional 1st (but unlikely). If not, he has expressed heavy interest in remaining. If he walks, so be it.

4. No need to dump Lupul. He is LTIR and this is his last year. Contract done forever.

5. Marincin can stay in the AHL. Zero concern.

 

[Rebels57]

I'll take Zucc on the Devils!

Hall-Hischier-Stafford
Johansson-Henrique-Palmieri
Zacha-Zajac-Zuccarello
Bratt-Coleman-Wood

I'm assuming you'd be giving up futures?

Why would a rebuilding team trade for Zuccarello?

 

[Savant]

your fix is terrible. price and galchenyuk arent bringing back lundqvist, mcdonaugh and kreider.

You forgot Lehkonen.

 

[Savant]

Are you serious? That's a great package. At least google the pieces before you comment

It’s not enough. It’s a decent package, but I think there would be better out there.

 

[Savant]

That's a lot more than what got Hamonic. I don't think you understand who Brown and Dermott are.

Maybe, but I think the Rangers can do better.