Value of: Nathan Mackinnon (THN says he's no longer untouchable)

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

How do you expect Crosby to produce when he's dragging around Chris Kunitz?

Good players are good players no matter who they play with.

So, because MacKinnon isn't as good as Crosby, he sucks? Is that what you're saying?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Not moving the goalposts at all. He has a mediocre shot and blaming that on Rene Bourque is stupid.

Can we blame it on the fact that he often ends up in the offensive zone without a shred of support, which leads to him throwing the puck towards the net from low percentage areas?

 

[Starat327]

Can we blame it on the fact that he often ends up in the offensive zone without a shred of support, which leads to him throwing the puck towards the net from low percentage areas?

Im gonna wager no, because you cant see that on a stat sheet.

 

[JohnnyJacket13]

The Avs are in a position where they need to focus on acquiring young guys with high end talent, so you think they should trade their 21 year old best player?

Never said I think they should trade him. Just said what I would offer if he were actually available for trade. Pretty distinct difference.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Never said I think they should trade him. Just said what I would offer if he were actually available for trade. Pretty distinct difference.

So, you don't think they should trade him, but if he were available, you'd offer a package that doesn't get anywhere close to what the Avs would want for him? Glad we cleared that up.

 

[Viqsi]

It may be crazy, but I think it's the only way to get Colorado to listen without including one of Jones/Werenski - which is obviously a no go

You misunderstand. It's insanity because it's not a way at all. It would not get Colorado to listen. They have particular needs they're looking for in a MacKinnon trade and that doesn't address them.

Honestly. We went through this same crap with Johansen. No need to foist it on others.

 

[Crede777]

There are 2 reasons why MacKinnon, a highly touted and highly talented cost controlled asset would be traded from a rebuilding team. I'm not saying these reasons exist, or that Colorado is considering trading him, but there are scenarios where it would make sense.

The first is an attitude issue. That has nothing to do with on ice play but instead is about jettisoning a player who is either in direct conflict with management or who is not working hard and is potentially trending towards bottoming out. See - Tyler Seguin

The second situation is a change in team philosophy. If a team starts to believe that the proper way to build a team is by assembling a top end defense and goaltending combo and building from the backend out, trading the highest value forward for a similarly high value defenseman makes sense. See - Ryan Johansen

I mean, it's either one of those or Sakic loses his mind.

 

[tucker3434]

Not moving the goalposts at all. He has a mediocre shot and blaming that on Rene Bourque is stupid.

He doesn't. He shoots from the perimeter way too much which we've known about since his rookie year (http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/nhl/mackinnon-needs-to-choose-his-shots-better/). Very few have good shooting percentages from out there but those that do tend to have a very hard and accurate slap shot. Mack relies on his wrister. It's like trying to compare a guy shooting layups to a guy shooting 3's. It's why shooting percentages alone arent enough.

I've been trying to find a high danger shooting percentage stat somewhere to see how he stacks up but I'm not sure it exists.

 

[danielpalfredsson]

There are 2 reasons why MacKinnon, a highly touted and highly talented cost controlled asset would be traded from a rebuilding team. I'm not saying these reasons exist, or that Colorado is considering trading him, but there are scenarios where it would make sense.

The first is an attitude issue. That has nothing to do with on ice play but instead is about jettisoning a player who is either in direct conflict with management or who is not working hard and is potentially trending towards bottoming out. See - Tyler Seguin

The second situation is a change in team philosophy. If a team starts to believe that the proper way to build a team is by assembling a top end defense and goaltending combo and building from the backend out, trading the highest value forward for a similarly high value defenseman makes sense. See - Ryan Johansen

I mean, it's either one of those or Sakic loses his mind.

You're missing one, which is if the Avalanche feel what they can get back in a trade for him is worth more than the player he is/will become.

This isn't me saying I think Nathan MacKinnon has peaked. But he has played 300 NHL games, so it is entirely possible a management team could look at him and think he is what he is now, will never get that much better, so if they can trade him to another team who wrongly thinks he can reach his ceiling they'd do it.

I can't really see trading MacKinnon making that much sense. Duchene has 2 more seasons until he is a UFA, and although some might disagree I don't think it is realistic to expect a player who has been shopped around for years on an under-performing team to be eager to sign an extension. Trading MacKinnon without another center coming back sets up Colorado to lose both of their top centers (aware they are used on the wing, but who else would play C?) in a two year span. If they won the lottery, I guess someone might be able to counter with them bringing in Patrick, and Jost potentially becoming a top 6 center. But they lost the lottery.

 

[bernmeister]

McDonagh and Stephan for Nate...Enough?

Added to this and an AVs fansaid it was too much.
But if NY wants to retain its young core -- and it must, keeping Skjei, Miller, Kreider, Zib and Hayes is worth more than a single talented add --- then even more overpayment restricted to such currency is only option.

Disgusting. Wouldn't trade McDonagh alone for that.

He is worth top top dollar, esp on his contract - not cheap, but not overpriced given what he produces and his upside locked up long term.

People can quibble about MacK's shot, scoring, lack of support, does he or does he not make other teammates better, etc.

What is not controvertible is his speed.
And that is why, up to a point, if it is currency acceptable to me, I will overpay heavy for MacK.

Kreider and MacK with the right C would be beyond awesome and truly unstoppable.

Of course, we would need to ditch coach AV so we would not have him screwing this up with a gazillion line changes...

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

You're assuming linear progression. Except MacKinnon has not produced linearly so far, so why would it start now?

62, 38 (in 64), 52 (in 72), and 53, with a mediocre shot (especially for a forward - career s% of 8.1 and a three-year average well below that). There is nothing here that screams "player about to break out". Also - while saying his point totals were low because of his team...

His on ice shot% was not even that low. In fact, it was right in line with his career average (his PDO is low because of an abysmal on ice save percentage). What stats exist to show that he is a guy that's just snakebit right now and will turn the corner? Maybe he is what he has shown - a ~60 point player.

Just curious if you've watched the World Champs at all? MacKinnon packed his sniper rifle and scope to show off his mediocre shot...

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Just curious if you've watched the World Champs at all? MacKinnon packed his sniper rifle and scope to show off his mediocre shot...

That guys says Mackinnon has a muffin for a shot and that Tyson Barrie is trash. I wouldn't put a lot of stock on him ever watching much Avalanche hockey because those opinions are kinda odd.

 

[AvsCOL]

That guys says Mackinnon has a muffin for a shot and that Tyson Barrie is trash. I wouldn't put a lot of stock on him ever watching much Avalanche hockey because those opinions are kinda odd.

I love when guys try to provide a scouting report on someone they don't even watch. Cringe worthy at best.


Quick hockeydb search is all he did there.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Mackinnon hasnt quite taken the next step that most expected him to by now and I wholeheartedly agree he shouldnt be "untouchable" right now because there are a lot of issues that Colorado needs to address and mackinnon by himself is not going to lift the Avs out of the hole.

that being said, unless Sakic gets 100% the return he wants, this would be the Seguin trade 2.0

 

[AvsCOL]

Mackinnon hasnt quite taken the next step that most expected him to by now and I wholeheartedly agree he shouldnt be "untouchable" right now because there are a lot of issues that Colorado needs to address and mackinnon by himself is not going to lift the Avs out of the hole.

that being said, unless Sakic gets 100% the return he wants, this would be the Seguin trade 2.0

Sakic has literally said he's untouchable. Not sure why this thread is even open.

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

It is refreshing to see Barrie, Landeskog, Rantanen and MacKinnon lighting up the worlds so far. We will see how they do against strong teams there, but I like to believe the core is not the problem for the Avs.

 

[Freudian]

The only legs this rumor has is wild speculation from an Edmonton journalist. Meanwhile Sakic has said he won't trade MacKinnon.

There are certainly some flaws to MacKinnon's game but the upside is still very high. Once Avs purge useless veterans and low effort players from the roster, he'll bounce back in a big way.

 

[cgf]

The only legs this rumor has is wild speculation from an Edmonton journalist. Meanwhile Sakic has said he won't trade MacKinnon.

There are certainly some flaws to MacKinnon's game but the upside is still very high. Once Avs purge useless veterans and low effort players from the roster, he'll bounce back in a big way.

Especially with the avs starting to accumulate the smart playmaking wingers he does best with now that Rantanen, Jost and Compher are on the team. Even Andrighetto was looking like a legit NHLer next to MacK & Mikko

 

[CodeE]

MacK with a passive aggressive jab at the Avs, saying "it feels good to play on a really good team" in reference to Team Canada. Yikes.

http://www.tsn.ca/hockey-canada/video/mackinnon-it-feels-good-to-play-on-a-really-good-team~1117888

 

[Bordeleau Of Blood]

MacK with a passive aggressive jab at the Avs, saying "it feels good to play on a really good team" in reference to Team Canada. Yikes.

http://www.tsn.ca/hockey-canada/video/mackinnon-it-feels-good-to-play-on-a-really-good-team~1117888

He just played a full season on a team that didn't crack 50 points. I'm glad to see the kid get a chance to smile and have fun playing the game again.

On the topic of this thread, he's not being traded.

 

[tucker3434]

MacK with a passive aggressive jab at the Avs, saying "it feels good to play on a really good team" in reference to Team Canada. Yikes.

http://www.tsn.ca/hockey-canada/video/mackinnon-it-feels-good-to-play-on-a-really-good-team~1117888

He's in year one of a seven year deal. We aren't too worried about him hating the franchise.

 

[Cassano]

It is refreshing to see Barrie, Landeskog, Rantanen and MacKinnon lighting up the worlds so far. We will see how they do against strong teams there, but I like to believe the core is not the problem for the Avs.

Eberle and Hall did this for years at the World's. Not an indicator of play in the NHL.

 

[HawkeyTalkMan]

Eberle and Hall did this for years at the World's. Not an indicator of play in the NHL.

Yea, tearing up a bunch of second rate hockey players from lesser leagues around the world on euro ice isnt saying much. The players with speed always flourish in these open ice, low checking games while the NHL playoffs are still continuing with the star players and most of the ones just getting recently knocked out of the playoffs skipping the tournament

 

[Maximus74]

I'm not sure either side does this, but one for one, Nylander for MacKinnon...

MacKinnon and Marner have looked great together.
Nylander has been dominating World's as well and can play with Landeskog.

Matthews, MacK, Kadri, Boyle down the middle... hella sweet....

 

[cgf]

I'm not sure either side does this, but one for one, Nylander for MacKinnon...

MacKinnon and Marner have looked great together.
Nylander has been dominating World's as well and can play with Landeskog.

Matthews, MacK, Kadri, Boyle down the middle... hella sweet....

Did you forget to add a Bigras-Rielly swap as well as a pick heading colorado's way? Because why else would Colorado consider this?