Value of: Nathan Mackinnon (THN says he's no longer untouchable)

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

So he could go for a LHD. Could someone give me a list of 5 d-men that would make sense value wise.
(ignoring the other team's needs. just assume that they could clone that player and trade him for all I care)

I think his skill is undeniable, but that doesn't mean that he's gonna get you that home run player.
A lot of Oil fans suggested that Hall would only be traded for an established #1 d-man despite being a winger and then he was traded for Larsson, whom many people thought to be a #3/#4 and despite that he's played like a #1/#2 for Edmonton this year.

I know how bad it sucks to suck. Look at me Oil4Life. That's been me through the thick and the thin.

If I were an Avs fan I would pray to whatever deity I believe in every night for Sakic to get fired and then for Mac (if he's actually getting traded) to be traded to either the Nucks or the Stars for their first rounder plus at least a useful middle six forward/ bottom pairing d-man and maybe another minor asset.

I really don't understand what Avs fans could hope to acquire in a 1 for 1 trade or what people from other fanbases would expect, but I'd really like to know. (Thanks!)

Out of curiosity, why do you believe Sakic needs to be fired? Is it that he took over a team with maybe 5 NHL caliber players (including a pending UFA in Stastny and a severely disgruntled player in ROR) and 0 organizational depth, and hasn't turned them into a contender in 4 years as GM? Or is it simply that the team imploded this year after their coach rage quit in August and 1/2 of the team didn't want to try to win games?

 

[Duffman955]

LOL at MacKinnon being a 55 point player. The guy just needs a change of scenery. I mean look at how he's tearing it up at the Worlds thus far.

He put up 53 points.

What am I supposed to say? Not my fault hes been overhyped disappointment in the league. Its on him.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

He put up 53 points.

What am I supposed to say? Not my fault hes been overhyped disappointment in the league. Its on him.

Last season's play is what makes the label of a hockey player? I hope my GM trades a conditional 7th rounder for Cory Schneider and his .908sv% while his value is low. Wouldn't mind snagging 32 point Dylan Larkin while I'm at it.

 

[57special]

Larkin is another story. Who knows how to value that guy?

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

He put up 53 points.

What am I supposed to say? Not my fault hes been overhyped disappointment in the league. Its on him.

Last season, he outscored 2nd place on the Avs by just under 23%. McDavid led his team by the largest margin in the league, just a few tenths of a percentage above MacKinnon at 23%.

Do you honestly believe that MacKinnon would only score 53 points if he had teammates that could manage to score more than 41 pts?

 

[AvsCOL]

LOL at MacKinnon being a 55 point player. The guy just needs a change of scenery. I mean look at how he's tearing it up at the Worlds thus far.

Typical Leafs fan. Call MacKinnon an established 55-point player, while Morgan Rielly, at 23, still has potential to be a 50-point elite defenseman

 

[John Eichel da GOAT]

The WC and WChamp should be an indication of his ability. Compliment him with talent and/or players to take pressure off him and he will flourish. Fix the Avs system and depth and he'll be at 65 points+ in no time.

The amount of people who watched 2 Avs games this season and now go to NHL.com/stats who all of a sudden think MacKinnon is an 2C at best is impressive.

The Avs will keep him and you lowballing us Armchair GM's will not miraculously get us to agree to Eberle for MacKinnon type trades.

 

[Mr Positive]

That's a double negative. Just say he's very touchable

 

[Adam91]

Sergachev, Galchenyuk, 1st for MacKinnon, B/B+ level prospect

 

[thadd]

Out of curiosity, why do you believe Sakic needs to be fired? Is it that he took over a team with maybe 5 NHL caliber players (including a pending UFA in Stastny and a severely disgruntled player in ROR) and 0 organizational depth, and hasn't turned them into a contender in 4 years as GM? Or is it simply that the team imploded this year after their coach rage quit in August and 1/2 of the team didn't want to try to win games?

Well it turned out that ROR was worth every penny that he wanted and correct me if I remember wrong, the coach (who recently resigned) wanted him off of the island.

I've never been a fan of players being GMs and I'm REALLY impressed with what Stevy has done in Tampa.

 

[MardyBum]

He put up 53 points.

What am I supposed to say? Not my fault hes been overhyped disappointment in the league. Its on him.

Mackinnon has established himself as a 55 point player. Im not even giving up Nylander for him.

He's outscored Nylander's year at ES in 3/4 seasons, and the only one he didnt he missed around 18 games, despite playing on some pretty terrible teams.

22 year olds aren't established as anything. He's a year and a half younger than Connor Brown for christ's sake.

 

[Duffman955]

He's outscored Nylander's year at ES in 3/4 seasons, and the only one he didnt he missed around 18 games, despite playing on some pretty terrible teams.

22 year olds aren't established as anything. He's a year and a half younger than Connor Brown for christ's sake.

Hes had multiple years at 50 points. I dont see any improvement.

Nylander played on the 4th line for a decent amount of time and still outscored Mackinnon

 

[Starat327]

Hes had multiple years at 50 points. I dont see any improvement.

Nylander played on the 4th line for a decent amount of time and still outscored Mackinnon

So what you're saying is, he generally faced easier opposition, as opposed to being his teams 1C?

 

[Jonas1235]

Here's a deal, Dallas Stars trade 3rd overall for Mackinnon.

 

[tucker3434]

Here's a deal, Dallas Stars trade 3rd overall for Mackinnon.

Not even close.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Well it turned out that ROR was worth every penny that he wanted and correct me if I remember wrong, the coach (who recently resigned) wanted him off of the island.

I've never been a fan of players being GMs and I'm REALLY impressed with what Stevy has done in Tampa.

The issue was never that ROR wasn't worth the money. The issue was fitting that kind of cap hit into our salary structure. If ROR gets the $8m he reportedly wanted to stay in Colorado, does MacKinnon still sign for $6.3m? Does EJ still sign for $6m? What does Duchene get on his next contract? And does giving him exactly what he wants set a dangerous precedent that holding out repeatedly and having unrealistic demands works in a players favor in Colorado?

Also, looking at the return we got for him, I still think the Avs got better long term by trading him. Zadorov looks like a top pairing LHD, and really helps the D. Compher and Greer will likely both start next season with the Avs in the top 6. It really might be the best example of a win-win trade that we've seen in years, with Buffalo getting the best player, and the Avs improving multiple roster spots.

 

[CBJx614]

As bad as I want MacK, I don't want to pay the price. Just imagine having 3 top 15 players from that draft and another first round talent in Bjorkstrand.

MacK
Wennberg
Dubi

I think he would easily pass 60 with a combination of Saad/Atkinson/Bjorkstrand/Foligno on his wings. And having two capable lines behind him would cause a mismatch nightmare.


Having said that I'll pop my own little fantasy bubble as there's no way in hell it happens.


I don't even know where to begin with a proposal. Werenski and Jones are completely off the table. So that all but kills it.

I'd offer up PLD, Murray and a 1st or a prospect and build on it from there. Maybe even offer next year's first as well to build from

Yes, yes I know. You want Werenski or Jones, but it's not happening.

 

[Savvy]

So what you're saying is, he generally faced easier opposition, as opposed to being his teams 1C?

You're not seriously trying to argue it's easier to put up points in 4th line minutes then it is as a first line player are you?

 

[CBJx614]

You're not seriously trying to argue it's easier to put up points in 4th line minutes then it is as a first line player are you?

... Playing against weaker competition usually equates to easier production. If McDavid faced teams fourth lines you don't think he wouldn't rack up 150+ points?

 

[dahrougem2]

Hes had multiple years at 50 points. I dont see any improvement.

Nylander played on the 4th line for a decent amount of time and still outscored Mackinnon

Yeah, you're right.

Morgan Rielly has had multiple years at 20 points. I don't see any improvement. He's clearly a 20 point defensemen moving forward long term.

Grigorenko + 2nd for Rielly?

 

[EdAVSfan]

Hes had multiple years at 50 points. I dont see any improvement.

Nylander played on the 4th line for a decent amount of time and still outscored Mackinnon

Nylander had 10 games where he played under 14 minutes in a game. And a no point were they ever clustered. The games were spread out throughout the entire year.

He averaged 13.5 ES minutes and 2.5 pp minutes.

Mackinnon averaged 15.5 ES minutes and just a bit over 2.5 pp minutes per game.

Great player.

But he didn't play 4th line minutes consistently at any point this season.

 

[Starat327]

You're not seriously trying to argue it's easier to put up points in 4th line minutes then it is as a first line player are you?

Sam Gagner had no problem putting up 50 points in under 14 mins of ice time this year. So, yes, i think some people can excel under limited pressure roles, and struggle when presented with more minutes against tougher competition.

The key there is the 'against tougher competition' part, not the minutes. It's easier to score against less quality opponents is what i was saying.

Also to note, before someone takes this in a direction it was never meant - No, i do not think Gagner is comparable to Nylander.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

Yeah, you're right.

Morgan Rielly has had multiple years at 20 points. I don't see any improvement. He's clearly a 20 point defensemen moving forward long term.

Grigorenko + 2nd for Rielly?

I'd like Rielly, but not at that cost. Grigorenko scored almost as many points as Rielly and played 8 fewer minutes per game. And that second round pick could end up turning into a player just as good as Rielly.

Am I doing this right?

 

[57special]

That's a double negative. Just say he's very touchable

 

[EdAVSfan]

Sam Gagner had no problem putting up 50 points in under 14 mins of ice time this year. So, yes, i think some people can excel under limited pressure roles, and struggle when presented with more minutes against tougher competition.

The key there is the 'against tougher competition' part, not the minutes. It's easier to score against less quality opponents is what i was saying.

Also to note, before someone takes this in a direction it was never meant - No, i do not think Gagner is comparable to Nylander.

It's a perfect example though. Sam Gagner had comparable numbers to Mackinnon this year.

Illustrates the point perfectly.