Value of: Nathan Mackinnon (THN says he's no longer untouchable)

[Leafidelity]

MacKinnon for Reilly and Marner

Or MacKinnon for Reilly, Nylander and a 2nd in 2018

Nah, we're ok over here.

 

[IWantSakicAsMyGM]

I dont think you are that special if you need all these things to be a great player.

Great players are great players.

That's the bottom line.

Ovechkin plays a lot better with Backstrom than without him.

Seguin and Benn play well together.

Stamkos played better with St Louis

There is a long list of great players who had a partner of a similar caliber.

 

[Tripod]

MacKinnon isn't the standard playmaking center that can carry a line on his back and elevate the play of both of this wingers. I wouldn't call Stastny special but back in the day he turned players like Wolski, Galiardi, Porter, Stewart and more into legitimate top 6 wingers. MacKinnon pushes the play and expects his linemates to keep pace, there's a reason speedy players or playmakers mesh with him so well. Avs haven't done a good job on pairing MacKinnon up with complementary players since Stastny left until Rantanen just now. So is he a Tavares that will put up 100 points with Moulson and Parenteau? Not likely, but I don't see anything stopping him from being like Seguin and tearing it up alongside Benn.

That being said, I'd personally move him in the right deal where the Avs took in a huge haul of futures with one standout blue chipper. I don't see a future where the Avs are a competitive team and MacKinnon is leading them to the promise land.

Well Duchene and Landeskog are supposed to be good. What's wrong with them?

 

[PAZ]

Well Duchene and Landeskog are supposed to be good. What's wrong with them?

None of them compliment Mackinnon well. Duchene plays the best by being the driver of his line, and Landeskog isn't the playmaker that Mackinnon needs.

Every year we see Mack tear it up after the season because he has a good playmaker like Gaudreau, Drouin, Giroux, etc. that can keep up, or know where to be as the trailer.

 

[Hunter368]

MacKinnon for Reilly and Marner

Or MacKinnon for Reilly, Nylander and a 2nd in 2018

I don't even like the Leafs and I acknowledge that's an absolutely horrible trade for the Leafs. Might be the most lopsided offers I've seen on this forum ever.........and that's saying something. Leafs laugh for hours at those two offers before hanging up and blocking the Avs number.

 

[Lonewolfe2015]

Well Duchene and Landeskog are supposed to be good. What's wrong with them?

Honestly, nothing is wrong with Duchy-MacK, other than they don't consistently play together and neither likes to be on the wing. When they do play together and get a rhythm established they can be pretty dominant together. There's a bit of fighting over who carries the puck though. Landy is a good 3rd wheel on that line, but he's never had chemistry with MacK in my opinion.

Rantanen and MacK looked like they were starting to figure it out, Rants has that uncanny vision you look for in a playmaking winger. The question remains to be seen how they'll develop together since Rantanen also has a solid shot and I'd hate to see him pass up on scoring opportunities just because he's on a line with MacKinnon.

 

[Patagonia]

Leaf fans always over-value their players under valuing players they want.

Hockey is a team game, it's not necessarily just the wingers, it's also the Coaching, Defence and Goalies. Mackinnon has been handicapped with horrible Wingers and terrible Defence while playing in the toughest division in hockey. International tournaments, he is surrounded with much better players allowing him to focus on pushing the play, instead of constantly chasing the puck in his own end or waiting for his wingers to catch up.

Avs are more than happy in keeping their budding star, if the Leafs want a player of this ability, expect to prepare a big offer.

 

[Duffman955]

Mackinnon has established himself as a 55 point player. Im not even giving up Nylander for him.

 

[Brock Radunske]

The thing I don't like about Mac is that he puts up all these points in international tournaments but it's almost always against bottom-feeder competition.
I just don't get why he doesn't produce like this against better teams. He has all the tools, so he should be able to.
I've followed him since the Moose and I full expect him to put it all together, I'm just frustrated that he hasn't yet, other than these glimpses.

 

[SoulDynasty]

I don't even like the Leafs and I acknowledge that's an absolutely horrible trade for the Leafs. Might be the most lopsided offers I've seen on this forum ever.........and that's saying something. Leafs laugh for hours at those two offers before hanging up and blocking the Avs number.

So be it. Mack is not for sale, so if you want him, prove it and pay up. We're not looking for whatever you want to call "fair value" for him because we absolutely don't want to trade him. Those are the offers I will accept for him and that's it.

Think about what you guys would accept for Matthews and that's where us Avs fans are sitting right now. that's not to say I consider them equal, but to us, Mack is the only guy on our team who can define our franchise.

 

[tucker3434]

It's pretty simple. When he's on a team that can possess a puck in the offensive zone, he can make things happen. When he isn't, he has a tougher time as would just about anyone. Yes, he's picking on weaker competition, but he's doing a better job than pretty much anyone else on team Canada (or in the whole tournament). It's not nothing.

 

[hockeyheadlines]

It's pretty simple. When he's on a team that can possess a puck in the offensive zone, he can make things happen. When he isn't, he has a tougher time as would just about anyone. Yes, he's picking on weaker competition, but he's doing a better job than pretty much anyone else on team Canada (or in the whole tournament). It's not nothing.

Being good on team Canada is fine but being good in the NHL is the goal. Get a decent coach in Colorado and you'll see his true potential.

 

[Avs71]

Mackinnon has established himself as a 55 point player. Im not even giving up Nylander for him.

That's okay, Avs would ask for Reilly, but in the end say no. He's established himself only as a 30 point defenceman. Avs already had one of those in Nick Holden, but they traded him for a 4th round pick.

 

[SoundwaveIsCharisma]

I like how Nylander is being talked about like he is a fresh-faced 17 year old that just blew the doors off the NHL after getting special exemption to play in the NHL as an underager. People do realize that he was drafted the year after MacKinnon right? The Avs bad season has made these trade proposals absolutely horrendous. I thought it was bad when the Leafs fans were targeting Stastny and O'Reilly, it looks to be infinitely worse now that they are targeting the likes of MacKinnon.

 

[Cousin Eddie]

I like how Nylander is being talked about like he is a fresh-faced 17 year old that just blew the doors off the NHL after getting special exemption to play in the NHL as an underager. People do realize that he was drafted the year after MacKinnon right? The Avs bad season has made these trade proposals absolutely horrendous. I thought it was bad when the Leafs fans were targeting Stastny and O'Reilly, it looks to be infinitely worse now that they are targeting the likes of MacKinnon.

Yup. People have a hard time understanding how young Nathan Mackinnon is. The talk of the young stars in the NHL is McDavid(20), Draisaitl (21) Eichel(20), Matthews(19), Laine(19), Marner (20) and Nylander (21). Do people realize Nathan Mackinnon is only 21 years old? Seems like he's been around forever but he's 21 years old. Same age as Draisaitl and Nylander.

 

[Howboutthempanthers]

Being good on team Canada is fine but being good in the NHL is the goal. Get a decent coach in Colorado and you'll see his true potential.

Well there it is. Simple yet very tough to get apparently. If you get the right coach, I think he would be just fine. But a bigger priority than the coach IMO, would be a new management team. They need to start there and then let them bring in the right coach.

 

[Muffin]

Apparently Marner is a rising star with loads of potential at 20 but MacKinnon is a washed up old fart at 21

 

[CamelToews]

I like how Nylander is being talked about like he is a fresh-faced 17 year old that just blew the doors off the NHL after getting special exemption to play in the NHL as an underager. People do realize that he was drafted the year after MacKinnon right? The Avs bad season has made these trade proposals absolutely horrendous. I thought it was bad when the Leafs fans were targeting Stastny and O'Reilly, it looks to be infinitely worse now that they are targeting the likes of MacKinnon.

Leaf fans targeting Mackinnon don't know what they're talking about. We need help in other areas than at center.

 

[NotOpie]

Apparently Marner is a rising star with loads of potential at 20 but MacKinnon is a washed up old fart at 21

The Hurricanes would begrudgingly take that "old fart" off of your hands....

 

[Cousin Eddie]

Leaf fans targeting Mackinnon don't know what they're talking about. We need help in other areas than at center.

Definitely true. But, could you imagine having a 1-2 of Matthews-Mackinnon down the middle for the next decade.

 

[thadd]

So he could go for a LHD. Could someone give me a list of 5 d-men that would make sense value wise.
(ignoring the other team's needs. just assume that they could clone that player and trade him for all I care)

I think his skill is undeniable, but that doesn't mean that he's gonna get you that home run player.
A lot of Oil fans suggested that Hall would only be traded for an established #1 d-man despite being a winger and then he was traded for Larsson, whom many people thought to be a #3/#4 and despite that he's played like a #1/#2 for Edmonton this year.

I know how bad it sucks to suck. Look at me Oil4Life. That's been me through the thick and the thin.

If I were an Avs fan I would pray to whatever deity I believe in every night for Sakic to get fired and then for Mac (if he's actually getting traded) to be traded to either the Nucks or the Stars for their first rounder plus at least a useful middle six forward/ bottom pairing d-man and maybe another minor asset.

I really don't understand what Avs fans could hope to acquire in a 1 for 1 trade or what people from other fanbases would expect, but I'd really like to know. (Thanks!)

 

[thadd]

Definitely true. But, could you imagine having a 1-2 of Matthews-Mackinnon down the middle for the next decade.

Sorry if this sounds like I'm patronizing you. I'm not. I'm just patronizing your idea and it's all cool. We come up with ideas that sound cool and we put them out there with the best of intentions.

But if Toronto ignores their current needs for a luxury like that they seriously risk going backwards for a few years. Not worth it IMO.

 

[Goulet17]

So he could go for a LHD. Could someone give me a list of 5 d-men that would make sense value wise.
(ignoring the other team's needs. just assume that they could clone that player and trade him for all I care)

I think his skill is undeniable, but that doesn't mean that he's gonna get you that home run player.
A lot of Oil fans suggested that Hall would only be traded for an established #1 d-man despite being a winger and then he was traded for Larsson, whom many people thought to be a #3/#4 and despite that he's played like a #1/#2 for Edmonton this year.

I know how bad it sucks to suck. Look at me Oil4Life. That's been me through the thick and the thin.

If I were an Avs fan I would pray to whatever deity I believe in every night for Sakic to get fired and then for Mac (if he's actually getting traded) to be traded to either the Nucks or the Stars for their first rounder plus at least a useful middle six forward/ bottom pairing d-man and maybe another minor asset.

I really don't understand what Avs fans could hope to acquire in a 1 for 1 trade or what people from other fanbases would expect, but I'd really like to know. (Thanks!)

I am not sure in what version of reality trading MacKinnon for what amounts to a Vilardi, Heiskanen, or Mittelstadt would help in a rebuild. MacKinnon is a 21 year old, right handed shot center that is signed for long term. Trading him for a lesser prospect not much younger than him and some other depth prospects seems crazy, particularly for a rebuilding team.

Avs fans did not start this thread and very few that I am aware of would even entertain the notion of trading MacKinnon.

Did the NHL recently implement a rule that requires Colorado to trade off all of its younger talent for lesser future pieces? I fully expect threads to start in a couple of weeks pitching trades for Rantanen and/or Jost for some lower round draft picks in 2017.

 

[tony d]

LOL at MacKinnon being a 55 point player. The guy just needs a change of scenery. I mean look at how he's tearing it up at the Worlds thus far.

 

[57special]

The team that could use Mackinnon, and could probably offer the right pieces for him, is unfortunately their hated rival, the MN Wild. Either Brodin or Dumba(almost positive they would opt for Brodin....they've got an Offenseman in Barrie)would be the centrepiece, with another good forward/prospect to partially replace Mackinnon's output. Someone like a Kunin or a Nino/Coyle.

My problem with Mackinnon is that i don't know what he is. 3 years ago I would've sworn that he was going to be one of the next generations of superstars. Now he seems like he is being surpassed by the Marners, Eichel, Nylanders, and Werenskis of the world, let alone Draisaitl, Mathews, McD's. I know he is still young, but too many times he looks pretty ordinary out there. To blame it all on coaching seems a little too easy. Is he really so high maintenance that Duchene, Landeskog, and Raantanen aren't ggod enough for him? To rave about his international play...well, RNH looked great last summer. So did Bellemare.

Mackinnon often looks like a slightly higher end Charlie Coyle to me. A Physical beast with that flashes high end skill/tools alternating with disturbing moments of dumb plays and/or periods of invisibility. There is no doubt that he is young enough that a light switch could go off and he could turn into a consistent, dominant player, but there is also the possibility that he is what he is right now, and that he could end up being the next RNH.