Confirmed Trade: [MTL/TOR] Plekanec (50%), Baun for Valiev, Rychel, 2nd

[BrendanGallagher11]

uummm....leafs don't really need anymore offense, that's not the reason they wanted him

It helps a lot especially in playoffs if all your forwards can chip in a bit offensively.
Probably wont have to be a game changer offensively but atleast add something. At this point i dont think plek can do that

unfortunately.

Go habs go

 

[firstemperor]

It says we're playing our center as a winger, our winger as a center because our GM and coach are idiots. It says we buried Glachenyuk on the 4th line for about a third of the season because that's how Claude teaches "defensive responsibility". It says our GM traded good assets and couldn't get a first line center back, despite claiming that that's the only way to get it done.

It basically says we're being coached and managed by a clown and his sidekick.



Timmins isn't bad from the 2nd round onward really, it's the first that usually busts for some reason.

It also says a lot about how some (not all) Hab fans scapegoated Pleks though. Yes, he's declined. Yes, he was overpaid. But context, he got zero PP time, faced the brunt of the top lines every night, and still was the leader on the Habs in ES points. Even if Chuck got dangled around, or Drouin couldn't hold fort as a center (which should have been to expected from day 1)....that says a lot about their quality as well.

As per Timmins, he's sucked in the draft for a little while now. It's historically difficult to get gems out of the 2nd, but it's not like he's really gotten any top 6, top 4 talent beyond the 2nd, and certainly has flubbed multiple 1sts now. If you trying to be a top dog in this league, you can't consistently flub those, expectations should be higher unless your aiming for mediocrity or below. There are teams in this like that use the draft almost like a sustainable, replenishing cupboard that never ends.....Tampa just traded a fair amount of prospects/picks and still have a better pool than Montreal today.

 

[Draft Dynasty]

It also says a lot about how some (not all) Hab fans scapegoated Pleks though. Yes, he's declined. Yes, he was overpaid. But context, he got zero PP time, faced the brunt of the top lines every night, and still was the leader on the Habs in ES points. Even if Chuck got dangled around, or Drouin couldn't hold fort as a center (which should have been to expected from day 1)....that says a lot about their quality as well.

As per Timmins, he's sucked in the draft for a little while now. It's historically difficult to get gems out of the 2nd, but it's not like he's really gotten any top 6, top 4 talent beyond the 2nd, and certainly has flubbed multiple 1sts now. If you trying to be a top dog in this league, you can't consistently flub those, expectations should be higher unless your aiming for mediocrity or below. There are teams in this like that use the draft almost like a sustainable, replenishing cupboard that never ends.....Tampa just traded a fair amount of prospects/picks and still have a better pool than Montreal today.

He got both Hudon and Gallagher in the 5th round. Cayden Primeau arguably the best goaler in NCAA this year with a 7th rounder. Victor Mete with a 4th pick. JAck evens 7th rounder.

If you look last year draft. We have probably 5 players who would go top 50 in a redraft. Poehling + Josh Brook + Cale Fleury + Cayden Primeau + Joni Ikonen.

Timmins is one of the best in the league. He also made the best decision of All time in drafting Carey Price 5th overall when we had Jose theodore coming of mvp season and needed a forward badly.

 

[firstemperor]

He got both Hudon and Gallagher in the 5th round. Cayden Primeau arguably the best goaler in NCAA this year with a 7th rounder. Victor Mete with a 4th pick. JAck evens 7th rounder.

If you look last year draft. We have probably 5 players who would go top 50 in a redraft. Poehling + Josh Brook + Cale Fleury + Cayden Primeau + Joni Ikonen.

Timmins is one of the best in the league. He also made the best decision of All time in drafting Carey Price 5th overall when we had Jose theodore coming of mvp season and needed a forward badly.

Gallagher was in 2010......Hudon is nothing to gloat about. Mete was a solid pick at his draft slot, nothing to write home about but good considering where he was taken. It's 2018 now though.

He was good at one point, but all one has to do is compare the Habs recent drafting history against top teams. Like I said, it depends on the expectations you have...if your ok with mediocrity and living off of pedigree on guys like Subban, Price, McDonagh...Timmins is great. My expectations would be higher for my team and I've been through my club having an absolutely abysmal drafting record until recently......but I won't sit here and gloat names around like Gunnarson, Stralman, Wellwood etc when ultimately, the club was a far cry from having draft success relative to the expectations I'd want for a team building towards a cup. Nevermind the late picks though, higher-end talents are built around 1st rounders.

 

[Draft Dynasty]

You can look around and find some nice stats backing Timmins. I had one of the best radio of NHL game played per selection.

You probably didn't watch much habs this year (didn't miss much either). But Hudon is very good and easily better then Drouin this year. He will be a key part of the future. Trust me on that.

The problem is that in the last 5years the habs draft around the 25th overall range. Only 2 time recently when we draft higher was with Sergachev and Galchenyuk (2 solid pick). In the 25th range it's a lot harder to get a slam dunk.

Poehling, Scherbak, Juulsen, are all decent pick to considering what was available.

Only true bad pick to me was Louis Leblanc (draft was in mtl basically add to pick the him) because frenchhhy. Wouldn't be shock if Leblanc wasn't the guy Timmins wanted. Tinordi also turn out to be a bad pick.

Lot easier to look good when you land the first overall and pick in the top 10 for a couple of years. Think habs had only 2 selection in the top 15 in the last 10 year..

 

[Edgy]

It also says a lot about how some (not all) Hab fans scapegoated Pleks though. Yes, he's declined. Yes, he was overpaid. But context, he got zero PP time, faced the brunt of the top lines every night, and still was the leader on the Habs in ES points. Even if Chuck got dangled around, or Drouin couldn't hold fort as a center (which should have been to expected from day 1)....that says a lot about their quality as well.

As per Timmins, he's sucked in the draft for a little while now. It's historically difficult to get gems out of the 2nd, but it's not like he's really gotten any top 6, top 4 talent beyond the 2nd, and certainly has flubbed multiple 1sts now. If you trying to be a top dog in this league, you can't consistently flub those, expectations should be higher unless your aiming for mediocrity or below. There are teams in this like that use the draft almost like a sustainable, replenishing cupboard that never ends.....Tampa just traded a fair amount of prospects/picks and still have a better pool than Montreal today.

Completely agree with everything you said.

 

[Ricky Bobby]

Gallagher was in 2010......Hudon is nothing to gloat about. Mete was a solid pick at his draft slot, nothing to write home about but good considering where he was taken. It's 2018 now though.

He was good at one point, but all one has to do is compare the Habs recent drafting history against top teams. Like I said, it depends on the expectations you have...if your ok with mediocrity and living off of pedigree on guys like Subban, Price, McDonagh...Timmins is great. My expectations would be higher for my team and I've been through my club having an absolutely abysmal drafting record until recently......but I won't sit here and gloat names around like Gunnarson, Stralman, Wellwood etc when ultimately, the club was a far cry from having draft success relative to the expectations I'd want for a team building towards a cup. Nevermind the late picks though, higher-end talents are built around 1st rounders.

As a Leaf fan (like myself) you should be well aware of context when it comes to the draft.

Timmins hasn't had the great pieces to work with since the 2007 draft. When you're typically picking later in the first round, not as often in the top 2-4 rounds and even after drafting a great prospect your GM makes bad trades how good can you look?

Mete was also taken 2 drafts ago and is one of only 2 players taken outside the top 50 who are in the NHL from that draft. That's a great pick any way you want to look at it. They also took Sergachev at 9th overall who's also a great pick. Too bad the GM dealt him away.

Much like the Leafs prior to Shanny coming onboard, the biggest problem is that the Habs need to quit fooling themselves about where the team is at. The Habs need to commit to a multi-year rebuild.

 

[Saidin]

I've always liked Plekanec. Good pickup Leafs.

 

[1909]

You can look around and find some nice stats backing Timmins. I had one of the best radio of NHL game played per selection.

You probably didn't watch much habs this year (didn't miss much either). But Hudon is very good and easily better then Drouin this year. He will be a key part of the future. Trust me on that.

The problem is that in the last 5years the habs draft around the 25th overall range. Only 2 time recently when we draft higher was with Sergachev and Galchenyuk (2 solid pick). In the 25th range it's a lot harder to get a slam dunk.

Poehling, Scherbak, Juulsen, are all decent pick to considering what was available.

Only true bad pick to me was Louis Leblanc (draft was in mtl basically add to pick the him) because frenchhhy. Wouldn't be shock if Leblanc wasn't the guy Timmins wanted. Tinordi also turn out to be a bad pick.

Lot easier to look good when you land the first overall and pick in the top 10 for a couple of years. Think habs had only 2 selection in the top 15 in the last 10 year..

Leblanc was picked exactly where he was forecasted by most scouts.
the all time worst was Fischer while Claude Giroux was still available. Urquhart instead of Bergeron is another bad one.

So forget your frenchhhhh irony.."

 

[DaPhazz]

Leblanc was picked exactly where he was forecasted by most scouts.
the all time worst was Fischer while Claude Giroux was still available. Urquhart instead of Bergeron is another bad one.

So forget your frenchhhhh irony.."

Timmins was actually pushed to pick Leblanc by the management, he was high on Kreider.

The 'frenchhh' thing is quite right on that one.. malheureusement.

 

[pezcore]

Toronto's scouting has been great lately but like mentionned, quite easier when you pick in the top 10 three consecutive years including a no brainer #1 overall. However, they did make the right picks because we all know how screwing up a top 10 pick can delay your rebuilding process.

Theyre record outside the 1st round is nothing to write home about. They do have a few great picks in later rounds like the Habs (Brown was a 4th rnd pick I think) but like the Habs, most of these players will be Ahlers or depth players on the Leafs.

I think the main difference between the 2 teams is development. Leafs are a tthe top while we are bottom feeders.

We'll see the next few years how the scouting measures up next to the Habs and the rest of the league as they will pick later in the rounds.

 

[67Cup]

Connor Brown was a sixth rounder but, to be honest, he was a pick of the previous regime. 2014 was the first draft under the Shanaplan but with the old scouts for the most part. From 2015 to the present the drafts have been run by the Mark Hunter team. Beyond the top picks, which have been excellent, it’s probably too early to say how he is doing. There hasn’t been a reasonable chance for most of them to make the Leafs, given the depth of the organization. Dermott certainly looks like the real thing, a couple of Euros are promising and the Marlies have been very strong but that’s about it.

Hunter has had some unusual draft emphases, enormous blueliners, overagers, overlooked Russians. We’ll see how they turn out. But in the case of Valiev, you Habs fans should want Leafs drafting to be excellent, n’est-ce pas?

 

[Morgs]

Toronto's scouting has been great lately but like mentionned, quite easier when you pick in the top 10 three consecutive years including a no brainer #1 overall. However, they did make the right picks because we all know how screwing up a top 10 pick can delay your rebuilding process.

Theyre record outside the 1st round is nothing to write home about. They do have a few great picks in later rounds like the Habs (Brown was a 4th rnd pick I think) but like the Habs, most of these players will be Ahlers or depth players on the Leafs.

I think the main difference between the 2 teams is development. Leafs are a tthe top while we are bottom feeders.

We'll see the next few years how the scouting measures up next to the Habs and the rest of the league as they will pick later in the rounds.

The thing I've noticed about Hunter is that he hasn't made a single bad pick in the first two rounds.

Since he's been here (2015 draft) we've drafted these guys in the first two rounds:

2015:
Mitch Marner
Travis Dermott
Jeremy Bracco

2016:
Auston Matthews
Yegor Korshkov
Carl Grundstrom

2017:
Timothy Liljegren
Eemeli Rasanen

Two stars, and a bunch of guys progressing into solid NHL players
------
Outside the first two rounds though, it's a mess:

Andrew Nielsen
Martins Dzierkals
Jesper Lindgren (potential)
Dmytro Timashov (potential)
Stephen Desrocher
NIkita Korostelev
Joseph Woll (potential)
J.D. Greenway
Adam Brooks
Keaton Middleton
Vladimir Bobylev
Jack Walker
Nicolas Mattinen
Nickolai Chebykin
Ian Scott
Vladislav Kara
Fedor Gordeev
Ryan McGregor
Ryan O'Connell

Imo, there's 3 potential NHL players in that group, with a couple really long shots. Not great. As much as people want to give credit for guys like Brown, I doubt the guy responsible is still in the organization.

 

[67Cup]

@Morgs, I would probably want to have a pleasant debate with you about which Leaf picks are promising but this isn’t the place for it. Maybe some other board.

It may be worth noting here, that drafting isn’t the only factor in building a team. There is also player development, as noted above, trading (Hyman and Kapanen), signing free agents (Zaitsev, probably Borgmann, maybe Aaltonen) and even waiver acquisitions (Corrado into two draft picks). Nobody bats 1.000 but Leafs management has done a good job in all these areas. I leave the Habs fans to decide how well Bergevin is doing in those same areas.

One consequence of this, however, is that there is a talent backup as players “over ripen”. If Andreas Johnsson were a Habs draft pick, would he be in the AHL now? That has to be taken into account when evaluating drafting.

An aside: way back when, almost in Roch Carrier times, my first hockey hero was Maurice Richard. When I was five, my Diehard Leafs fan father grit his teeth and Santa brought me a Habs jersey for Christmas. But I saw the light and came to the Lord in the 58-59 season.

 

[1909]

Leblanc was picked exactly where he was forecasted by most scouts.
the all time worst was Fischer while Claude Giroux was still available. Urquhart instead of Bergeron is another bad one.

So forget your frenchhhhh irony.."

The guy wrote: the only bad pick..... There was worst picks by Timmins than the Leblanc's one...even if it was bad.

 

[Halla]

You can look around and find some nice stats backing Timmins. I had one of the best radio of NHL game played per selection.

You probably didn't watch much habs this year (didn't miss much either). But Hudon is very good and easily better then Drouin this year. He will be a key part of the future. Trust me on that.

The problem is that in the last 5years the habs draft around the 25th overall range. Only 2 time recently when we draft higher was with Sergachev and Galchenyuk (2 solid pick). In the 25th range it's a lot harder to get a slam dunk.

Poehling, Scherbak, Juulsen, are all decent pick to considering what was available.

Only true bad pick to me was Louis Leblanc (draft was in mtl basically add to pick the him) because frenchhhy. Wouldn't be shock if Leblanc wasn't the guy Timmins wanted. Tinordi also turn out to be a bad pick.

Lot easier to look good when you land the first overall and pick in the top 10 for a couple of years. Think habs had only 2 selection in the top 15 in the last 10 year..

decent yes, but not like they hit a home run either

Poehling: Tolvanen still on board
Scherbak: Ho Sang and Kempe were around
Juulsen: Dermott,Carlo, Sebastian Aho shortly after

Juulsen was a bad pick imho. I just dont see him become more than a spare dman at the NHL level. Scherbak is kinda meh. He hasn't really done much aside from 26 games in the AHL this year. Poehling I think was a nice pick.
Sergachev was the 2nd home run dman the habs have taken for a quick fix up front (Mcdonagh)

galchenyuk was a pretty poor pick as well imho. Rielly,Lindholm,Trouba,Dumba,Forsberg all went 5-11 and all carry significantly more value than Galchenyuk

 

[Yamazaki]

How is this thread 39 pages???

 

[67Cup]

If you check the number of posts for each team board, you will see that Toronto is number one and Montreal number two, both by a very large margin. (Toronto has approximately as many posts as the entire Central Division, minus Winnipeg.) This is a trade between two teams with very large and very passionate fan bases with a rivalry that goes back generations. Of course, there will be a lot of discussion.

 

[4thline]

It also says a lot about how some (not all) Hab fans scapegoated Pleks though. Yes, he's declined. Yes, he was overpaid. But context, he got zero PP time, faced the brunt of the top lines every night, and still was the leader on the Habs in ES points. Even if Chuck got dangled around, or Drouin couldn't hold fort as a center (which should have been to expected from day 1)....that says a lot about their quality as well.

I think this sums it up nicely. Still ahead of Koivu and J. Staal in EV scoring, at the time of the trade was tied with Henrique/Backlund/Little. Not as good as he once was, and maybe not flashy, but damn effective in a seemingly thankless environment

 

[Prairie Habs]

decent yes, but not like they hit a home run either

Poehling: Tolvanen still on board
Scherbak: Ho Sang and Kempe were around
Juulsen: Dermott,Carlo, Sebastian Aho shortly after

Juulsen was a bad pick imho. I just dont see him become more than a spare dman at the NHL level. Scherbak is kinda meh. He hasn't really done much aside from 26 games in the AHL this year. Poehling I think was a nice pick.
Sergachev was the 2nd home run dman the habs have taken for a quick fix up front (Mcdonagh)

galchenyuk was a pretty poor pick as well imho. Rielly,Lindholm,Trouba,Dumba,Forsberg all went 5-11 and all carry significantly more value than Galchenyuk

He's already playing above spare Dman level...

I also like that Norris winning Subban isn't a home run Dman but McD is apparently

 

[Halla]

He's already playing above spare Dman level...

I also like that Norris winning Subban isn't a home run Dman but McD is apparently

you really want me to go there? Montreal has made some nice D picks of late..Subban.McD,Sergachev then they traded them all for god awful returns

also juulsen has 5 games experience and now he is an NHL regular? lol

hasnt done anything in the AHL and is only in the NHL because the habs traded 3 dmen AND Weber is hurt

 

[Prairie Habs]

you really want me to go there? Montreal has made some nice D picks of late..Subban.McD,Sergachev then they traded them all for god awful returns

also juulsen has 5 games experience and now he is an NHL regular? lol

hasnt done anything in the AHL and is only in the NHL because the habs traded 3 dmen AND Weber is hurt

The irony here is staggering considering Toronto fans were putting dermott in the norris conversation after he showed be could play 13 minutes a night competently.

Juulsen is playing fantastic and the notion that he was a bad pick or will only become a spare d at best is laughably stupid.

 

[showtime8]

I saw that Valiev got called up by the Habs. Is one of the main guys injured and will he get an opportunity?

 

[FerrisRox]

also juulsen has 5 games experience and now he is an NHL regular? lol

So you are laughing at how silly it is to list Juulsen as being above "spare D-man level" and yet, while criticizing the draft pick, you mentioned that Dermott "was on the board."

So Juulsen we can't possibly know if he's good yet because he has just 5 NHL games experience, but Dermott, with 23 games experience is money in the bank? Do you not see how silly you sound here?

hasnt done anything in the AHL and is only in the NHL because the habs traded 3 dmen AND Weber is hurt

Okay, I'll bite: who are the three D the Habs traded? They traded Jerabek to Washington and dealt Morrow to Winnipeg... who am I missing?

Are you forgetting, or conveniently leaving out, that they also acquired two defensemen, both of whom are on the NHL roster right now?

 

[uncleben]

So you are laughing at how silly it is to list Juulsen as being above "spare D-man level" and yet, while criticizing the draft pick, you mentioned that Dermott "was on the board."

So Juulsen we can't possibly know if he's good yet because he has just 5 NHL games experience, but Dermott, with 23 games experience is money in the bank? Do you not see how silly you sound here?



Okay, I'll bite: who are the three D the Habs traded? They traded Jerabek to Washington and dealt Morrow to Winnipeg... who am I missing?

Are you forgetting, or conveniently leaving out, that they also acquired two defensemen, both of whom are on the NHL roster right now?

They also traded Redmond early this year... but also acquired Cracknell