Blue Jays Discussion: Meaningful Baseball Continues

[Red Piller]

Eyedea

he got hit unintentionally. It happens every day in the game of baseball. The Yankees did nothing wrong, you guys escalated it. If they hit him on purpose sure, different story. But they didn't. So stop acting like they did.

 

[Leaftors]

Eyedea

he got hit unintentionally. It happens every day in the game of baseball. The Yankees did nothing wrong, you guys escalated it. If they hit him on purpose sure, different story. But they didn't. So stop acting like they did.

and you obviously know this from being in the dugout before they went on the field? I'm sure you have the inside scoop of what Gary Sanchez, and everyone was thinking when the inside pitch was called.
Im not saying I have any more proof than you, but don't act like something is factual when you have no idea if it was or not.

 

[Discoverer]

But you're advocating to bring **** back up again after an offseason of reflection? That mentality isn't very healthy.

I'm not advocating that at all. I'm discussing both sides because I'm unsure of how I feel about the whole situation.

 

[Red Piller]

Yeah, I'm sure Luis Severino and Gary Sanchez are super proud of their contributions to the Yankees' World Series totals.

again, not really the point. Saying "Check the standings" when you are not even guaranteed a WC spot yet, when you havnt won anything in 25 years........come on

 

[Eyedea]

Eyedea

he got hit unintentionally. It happens every day in the game of baseball. The Yankees did nothing wrong, you guys escalated it. If they hit him on purpose sure, different story. But they didn't. So stop acting like they did.

I didn't say they hit him on purpose. The point is the Jays (specifically Happ) retaliated in defence of their MVP. It doesn't take an intentional pitch to instigate that. And if they escalated the situation, then why did the Yankees feel the need to take it a step further?

 

[Mach85]

The problem is, the Jays are involved in these types of things all the time. Its not everyone else, its the Jays that are causing problems. I have never seen Josh Donaldson act this way in Oakland before. He has changed since he has come to Toronto. Maybe when he won the MVP it enlarged his ego, maybe the media pumping him up has enlarged it, maybe both. He is a hell of a ballplayer but the Jays as a whole sure do like to whine a lot these last few years.

The guy got hit by mistake. Lets brawl. Come on.

Can you demonstrate this? That the Jays are involved in far more bench-clearing incidents than other teams? I'm betting that's not true. Watched the Royals in the last couple years? There are two teams in the last week that had the benches clear twice in the same game. The Jays have been involved in the most notorious incident this year, but I don't think you can fault them for being on the receiving end of a punch. If anything, they showed restraint in that situation.

I maintain that every other team in the league would have reacted in the same manner to the reigning MVP getting pitched in tight like that. To expect the Jays to go so far against the grain, just because the highly unlikely thing happened and a major injury occurred (a fluke one at that), is unrealistic.

 

[BlueForever]

Do you know how stupid it sounds to say "check the standings" to a team that has won the most championships in league history and almost all of sports? Act like you have done it before.

Do you know how stupid it sounds for a team to cry because another team showed the same passion that the Yankees did but some loser on their team that knows nothing about Yankee history has to cry that he was sworn at. Or that people are fist pumping.

Since we like talking about history, go back and look at tape. Jeter rounding the bases swearing after a game tying home run or home run in general. Or Pettitte fist pumping galore when ever he struck out someone to end an inning. Or better yet Giambi mouthing off to people all the time.

Listen passion goes with winning, I get it. But sulking goes with losing, listen jays did enough of that the past 20 years. Now its their time for passion....so Yankees shut up and go home.

 

[Red Piller]

and you obviously know this from being in the dugout before they went on the field? I'm sure you have the inside scoop of what Gary Sanchez, and everyone was thinking when the inside pitch was called.
Im not saying I have any more proof than you, but don't act like something is factual when you have no idea if it was or not.

Its easy to tell when guys are hit intentionally usually, so yes. I guess I do have the inside scoop. You think Girardi told his guy to go hit Donaldson while they are involved in an important game? Doubtful. I understand youre a jays fan but lets call a spade a spade here. Its pretty obvious they didn't do it on purpose.

 

[Red Piller]

I didn't say they hit him on purpose. The point is the Jays (specifically Happ) retaliated in defence of their MVP. It doesn't take an intentional pitch to instigate that. And if they escalated the situation, then why did the Yankees feel the need to take it a step further?

Well that's what happens when you escalate a situation, no? The other team retaliates. The bottom line is there was no need for Happ to do that. None. Retaliating for what should have been a non issue. Donaldson got hit in the elbow pad by accident.

 

[Eyedea]

again, not really the point. Saying "Check the standings" when you are not even guaranteed a WC spot yet, when you havnt won anything in 25 years........come on

I don't see how winning a championship (in the past) is relevant in this situation. The ability to win a championship on the other hand is. Clearly my response to Suntouchable's post was a joke, but thinking the Yankees came away laughing from that series is anything but true. They had their chance to catch up to the Jays for a postseason spot but instead folded and lost 3 of 4.

Well that's what happens when you escalate a situation, no? The other team retaliates. The bottom line is there was no need for Happ to do that. None. Retaliating for what should have been a non issue. Donaldson got hit in the elbow pad by accident.

They didn't seem to think it was a non issue however, and I think that's the more important part in that situation. They don't care if it was by accident, they're going to defend their MVP.

 

[Loosie]

No one is advocating playing 18 games against the Yankees next year and getting them back at the end of the 19th game.

Maybe not, but bringing things up the next year is still pretty stupid. I was pretty groggy when all this was going down, but if I remember correctly the Buck praised Happ for doing, or said something along the lines of Donaldson being happy as he expressed 'frustration' about his team not retaliating earlier in the season when he got hit.

All in all the only reason this has become a discussion is that Benoit and Travis have been hurt. No injures no problem. 9 times out of 10 no one gets hurt in a scrum, we just got unlucky this time. This team has in the final few weeks been showing a lot of passion which is great when going into the post season. I for one applaud what happened that game even if I think the whole "You hit my guy so I hit your guy" thing is pretty stupid.

 

[GoonieFace]

Maybe not, but bringing things up the next year is still pretty stupid. I was pretty groggy when all this was going down, but if I remember correctly the Buck praised Happ for doing, or said something along the lines of Donaldson being happy as he expressed 'frustration' about his team not retaliating earlier in the season when he got hit.

All in all the only reason this has become a discussion is that Benoit and Travis have been hurt. No injures no problem. 9 times out of 10 no one gets hurt in a scrum, we just got unlucky this time. This team has in the final few weeks been showing a lot of passion which is great when going into the post season. I for one applaud what happened that game even if I think the whole "You hit my guy so I hit your guy" thing is pretty stupid.

I think the possibility of suspension is more the reason to refrain from getting involved at this point in the season, the injuries were a fluke.

 

[BayStreetBully]

And my point is that it's actually more stupid to bring something back up that should have been buried the previous season.

Except it's not. Is it stupid to bring it up next year? Maybe, but I'll live with that.

Is it more *relevant* to bring it up this year? Sure. Is it stupid? Nothing could be stupider. You're better off bringing it up in 2017 or heck even 2027 than you are bringing it up now.

Whatever. It's done. Jays have no one to blame but themselves, but time to face the music and move on.

 

[Red Piller]

Do you know how stupid it sounds for a team to cry because another team showed the same passion that the Yankees did but some loser on their team that knows nothing about Yankee history has to cry that he was sworn at. Or that people are fist pumping.

Since we like talking about history, go back and look at tape. Jeter rounding the bases swearing after a game tying home run or home run in general. Or Pettitte fist pumping galore when ever he struck out someone to end an inning. Or better yet Giambi mouthing off to people all the time.

Listen passion goes with winning, I get it. But sulking goes with losing, listen jays did enough of that the past 20 years. Now its their time for passion....so Yankees shut up and go home.

They were not "crying" because of that. Its passion to plunk a guy on purpose after the other team hits your guy by accident? Its no wonder this kind of thing happens to the Jays all the time with that kind of mentality. Teams don't forget.

 

[Leaftors]

Its easy to tell when guys are hit intentionally usually, so yes. I guess I do have the inside scoop. You think Girardi told his guy to go hit Donaldson while they are involved in an important game? Doubtful. I understand youre a jays fan but lets call a spade a spade here. Its pretty obvious they didn't do it on purpose.

so you're the expert? good to know

 

[BlueForever]

They were not "crying" because of that. Its passion to plunk a guy on purpose after the other team hits your guy by accident? Its no wonder this kind of thing happens to the Jays all the time with that kind of mentality. Teams don't forget.

Oh wait Donaldson was by accident now!!!!

Ok Happ drilled Headly by accident too. It slipped sorry.

Next time your right we should make an accident against your best player during a critical time instead of some loser 3rd baseman.

 

[Eyedea]

They were not "crying" because of that. Its passion to plunk a guy on purpose after the other team hits your guy by accident? Its no wonder this kind of thing happens to the Jays all the time with that kind of mentality. Teams don't forget.

These are the unwritten rules of baseball. You plunk our guy, we plunk yours. That ends it. The Yankees decided to protect their guy back.

 

[Red Piller]

I don't see how winning a championship (in the past) is relevant in this situation. The ability to win a championship on the other hand is. Clearly my response to Suntouchable's post was a joke, but thinking the Yankees came away laughing from that series is anything but true. They had their chance to catch up to the Jays for a postseason spot but instead folded and lost 3 of 4.



They didn't seem to think it was a non issue however, and I think that's the more important part in that situation. They don't care if it was by accident, they're going to defend their MVP.

Defend him from accidental hit by pitches? The guy has been hit 8 times this year. 8. times. That is not that many. But hey, lets start **** with them for hitting him by accident. There is a difference between defending your team mate and over reacting. If he got hit on purpose sure, defend him. By all means, its justified. This just makes you look even worse than you already did though. The injuries to your pen just adds to it. That could end up being a huge blow to your club down the stretch and into the wild card, for what?

 

[Red Piller]

so you're the expert? good to know

It doesn't take an expert to see that he wasn't hit intentionally. I'm not an expert, and I'm sorry I don't have the same opinion as you on this subject.

How long have you been a baseball fan? I am just curious because generally, you can tell if he was hit on purpose or not.

 

[Red Piller]

These are the unwritten rules of baseball. You plunk our guy, we plunk yours. That ends it. The Yankees decided to protect their guy back.

That's for being hit intentionally. Which didn't happen. Are you guys serious right now?

Protect your players, absolutely. I am 100 percent in agreement with that. Not in this case though.

 

[Mach85]

It doesn't take an expert to see that he wasn't hit intentionally. I'm not an expert, and I'm sorry I don't have the same opinion as you on this subject.

How long have you been a baseball fan? I am just curious because generally, you can tell if he was hit on purpose or not.

The players on the field have a different opinion than you, and they have a lot more baseball knowledge than you do. So pulling the "how long have you been a baseball fan" card here isn't really the best play to make your point.

 

[Eyedea]

Defend him from accidental hit by pitches? The guy has been hit 8 times this year. 8. times. That is not that many. But hey, lets start **** with them for hitting him by accident. There is a difference between defending your team mate and over reacting. If he got hit on purpose sure, defend him. By all means, its justified. This just makes you look even worse than you already did though. The injuries to your pen just adds to it. That could end up being a huge blow to your club down the stretch and into the wild card, for what?

Yes defend him from accidental HBPs. Severino throws 99-100 and is trying to go up and in on JD. You don't think he's worried, especially at this point in the season, about getting hurt by that pitch? You can look no further than last month when he got hit in the cheek by Kelvin Herrera's 87 mph change up as an example of what they're trying to avoid happening to their MVP.

 

[Red Piller]

The players on the field have a different opinion than you, and they have a lot more baseball knowledge than you do. So pulling the "how long have you been a baseball fan" card here isn't really the best play to make your point.

Its not a card, I was just asking.

Yeah, youre right, they do have more knowledge. Which is why the Jays are probably the most disliked team around the league right now by other teams. Its not a co-incidence players are coming out speaking out against your players all the time. This stuff just adds to it. Honestly I'm not trying to cause a ruckus in here, I just want to have a discussion about this topic.

 

[BlueForever]

That's for being hit intentionally. Which didn't happen. Are you guys serious right now?

Protect your players, absolutely. I am 100 percent in agreement with that. Not in this case though.

Donladson is our reigning MVP and him out for any prolonged period of time would have been disastrous for the Jays playoff aspirations. Pineida damn well wanted to pitch him high and inside, theres no doubt. But in the end, he hit him. Whether it was intentionally or not, he was hit. And the message was sent back to not think about it again.

It was tit for tat. Girardi is a bafffoon. He and nobody else caused this. Yankees got what was coming to them.

 

[Discoverer]

It doesn't take an expert to see that he wasn't hit intentionally.

How far inside does a pitcher have to throw before it's basically an intentional HBP?