Blue Jays Discussion: Meaningful Baseball Continues

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RoyalCitySlicker

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Sep 6, 2013
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Yeah, I'll sacrifice Polak getting a fighting major if it takes Crosby off the ice for 5 minutes in game 7 of the finals.

Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals vs. 7th last game of the regular season.

Comparison seems about right.

Let's not be silly. Their season is not jeopardized because of the wrestling match the other night.

They are still in the driver's seat for the 1st WC.
 

Loosie

The Eternal Optimist
Jun 14, 2011
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So right now, the only way that Sanchez starts again in the regular season is if game 162 matters. If not, we will hold him back for the Wild Card game.

We are 2 up in the WC standings and things have intensified so we need to concentrate on winning tonight. If somehow New York can pull 2 off against Boston and we take 2 more from Baltimore, that is going to be one hell of a series between TO and Boston.

It will be something, but it would also still need to be a Toronto sweep. It would be a fun ride if that's the case though.
 

BayStreetBully

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Oct 25, 2007
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Please explain.

Did we fight any of their players? Did we hurt any of their players? Did we scare any of them with Happ's pitches that they won't do it again? ... Wanna deter them? Go full on out and punch the guy like Odor did. At least you've then accomplished something meaningful. (Of course, that gives us suspensions and potential for other injuries... back to the point that it accomplished nothing)
 

BayStreetBully

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Game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals vs. 7th last game of the regular season.

Comparison seems about right.

Let's not be silly. Their season is not jeopardized because of the wrestling match the other night.

They are still in the driver's seat for the 1st WC.

I'm not saying our season is jeopardized. I'm saying it's stupid and needless and no good could come out of it.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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Aug 14, 2010
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Did we fight any of their players? Did we hurt any of their players? Did we scare any of them with Happ's pitches that they won't do it again? ... Wanna deter them? Go full on out and punch the guy like Odor did. At least you've then accomplished something meaningful. (Of course, that gives us suspensions and potential for other injuries... back to the point that it accomplished nothing)

So, what would you have done (assuming you were Russell Martin) and its the top of the 2nd, September 26th.
 

BayStreetBully

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So, what would you have done (assuming you were Russell Martin) and its the top of the 2nd, September 26th.

If I was Gibby, I'd have said "**** it. Don't play games. We got bigger fish to fry. Yanks are acting like fools because they got nothing to lose. Baltimore and Boston won't do that. So just play ball because you're better men."

If I was Donaldson, I'd have said "I appreciate the support guys, but now's not the time to retaliate. Let's get 'em next year- we can get 'em good."
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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If I was Gibby, I'd have said "**** it. Don't play games. We got bigger fish to fry. Yanks are acting like fools because they got nothing to lose. Baltimore and Boston won't do that. So just play ball because you're better men."

If I was Donaldson, I'd have said "I appreciate the support guys, but now's not the time to retaliate. Let's get 'em next year- we can get 'em good."

How Canadian of you.

All this because a 39 year old reliever strained his calf running from the bullpen. I wonder if he would have strained it during his run in from the bullpen in his next appearance. Of course not.
 

Discoverer

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Apr 11, 2012
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How Canadian of you.

All this because a 39 year old reliever strained his calf running from the bullpen. I wonder if he would have strained it during his run in from the bullpen in his next appearance. Of course not.

There's a big difference between rushing out the bullpen door to support your teammates and lightly jogging to the mound by yourself.

Travis was also hurt in the scrum.
 

Diamond Joe Quimby

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There's a big difference between rushing out the bullpen door to support your teammates and lightly jogging to the mound by yourself.

Travis was also hurt in the scrum.

Calf muscles (along with the muscles that make up the hamstrings and quads) do not instantly tear, contrary to popular belief. Tears\strains occur after a series of micro-tears build over time for various reasons. So, one can believe that a sudden hard sprint from the bullpen would cause the tear and it wouldn't have occurred had the incident not occurred (which supports this sensationalist crap that's been spouted the last two days) or one can simply come to the conclusion that the calf muscle was going to tear at some point in the very near future regardless (whether it was jogging in from the bullpen, finishing a follow-through on a pitch to the plate, etc.). I venture to think most former high level athletes, PT's, or sports medicine individuals would agree with the latter.

As for Travis, last I checked, he's day to day. If he plays tonight, the sensationalist argument will lose one of its two examples of why we should all be playing nice with the bloody Yankees. If he can't return, then yes, absolutely terrible to lose a player of his caliber in general, let alone outside of the general field of play. I, for one, will not jump on the hindsight train and cry tears over spilt milk.
 

Loosie

The Eternal Optimist
Jun 14, 2011
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Calf muscles (along with the muscles that make up the hamstrings and quads) do not instantly tear, contrary to popular belief. Tears\strains occur after a series of micro-tears build over time for various reasons. So, one can believe that a sudden hard sprint from the bullpen would cause the tear and it wouldn't have occurred had the incident not occurred (which supports this sensationalist crap that's been spouted the last two days) or one can simply come to the conclusion that the calf muscle was going to tear at some point in the very near future regardless (whether it was jogging in from the bullpen, finishing a follow-through on a pitch to the plate, etc.). I venture to think most former high level athletes, PT's, or sports medicine individuals would agree with the latter.

As for Travis, last I checked, he's day to day. If he plays tonight, the sensationalist argument will lose one of its two examples of why we should all be playing nice with the bloody Yankees. If he can't return, then yes, absolutely terrible to lose a player of his caliber in general, let alone outside of the general field of play. I, for one, will not jump on the hindsight train and cry tears over spilt milk.

I mean how dare we have sprinklers in Dunedin!
 

BayStreetBully

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Oct 25, 2007
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How Canadian of you.

All this because a 39 year old reliever strained his calf running from the bullpen. I wonder if he would have strained it during his run in from the bullpen in his next appearance. Of course not.

It would be Canadian of me if I was doing it out of the goodness of my heart.

But I got greater motives. I want to win. And to win, I want the best possible lineup. And to get the best possible lineup, I don't do dumb things that I may regret a second after the fact.

And "all this because of blah blah blah..." If he hurts himself in the line of play or running from the bullpen, so be it. Fact is he hurt himself because of the scrum that could have even been much worse than it ended up being.
 

GoonieFace

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Jun 24, 2013
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Calf muscles (along with the muscles that make up the hamstrings and quads) do not instantly tear, contrary to popular belief. Tears\strains occur after a series of micro-tears build over time for various reasons. So, one can believe that a sudden hard sprint from the bullpen would cause the tear and it wouldn't have occurred had the incident not occurred (which supports this sensationalist crap that's been spouted the last two days) or one can simply come to the conclusion that the calf muscle was going to tear at some point in the very near future regardless (whether it was jogging in from the bullpen, finishing a follow-through on a pitch to the plate, etc.). I venture to think most former high level athletes, PT's, or sports medicine individuals would agree with the latter.

As for Travis, last I checked, he's day to day. If he plays tonight, the sensationalist argument will lose one of its two examples of why we should all be playing nice with the bloody Yankees. If he can't return, then yes, absolutely terrible to lose a player of his caliber in general, let alone outside of the general field of play. I, for one, will not jump on the hindsight train and cry tears over spilt milk.

Fluke injuries aside, there is always potential for suspensions. So engaging in this nonsense with a non-playoff team isnt worth the potential risk. Put in the memory banks and respond accordingly the next chance you get. Which means the 1st chance and not the cowardly way the Texas Rangers chose to respond.
 

Mark Stones Spleen

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Jan 17, 2008
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I've got no problems with the bench clear out, just an unfortunate result. Only thing I would have liked more though was them just focusing on the win and use the top of the 9th to start throwing at the Yanks hoping we wouldn't have had to bat again.
 

zeke

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Mar 14, 2005
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it's kind of a part of who the jays are. i don't think i want them to change.
 

Leaftors

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Jul 21, 2011
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it's kind of a part of who the jays are. i don't think i want them to change.

Nope, and i'd be hard pressed to find a single mlb team that would not react the same way after the mvp of the league gets beaned by a team not in a playoff race, because to me that makes it even worse.
 

Discoverer

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Apr 11, 2012
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And if the scrum happened in July, and Roberto Osuna tore his hamstring running in the from the Pen, would it have made it ok?

I think beanball wars are stupid in general, but the chances of an injury happening in July that could hamper the team's playoff aspirations are significantly less. So it would have been more reasonable at that point, yes.
 

Discoverer

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Nope, and i'd be hard pressed to find a single mlb team that would not react the same way after the mvp of the league gets beaned by a team not in a playoff race, because to me that makes it even worse.

Yeah, every team hates every other team for reacting this way, but every team reacts this way.
 

Mach85

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Mar 14, 2013
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Yeah, every team hates every other team for reacting this way, but every team reacts this way.

That's the key thing to remember here for me. The Nationals just had a bench-clearing the other night too. There's not a team in baseball that would have reacted differently than the Jays did, and for that reason it's hard to criticize them for it. It's like pissing in the wind. Whether one agrees with it or not, this was going to happen regardless. Unfortunately, the unlikely occurred. At least it wasn't Osuna.
 

LeafsMonster

Marlanderthews
Feb 3, 2012
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I might not know what I'm talking about here, but wouldn't we rather have estrada or happ playing the WC and have sanchez ready for bullpen if needed, similar to how we used price last year in the bullpen. Happ or estrada should be reliable but in case the game is tight or getting out of hand early I would be more confident with sanchez coming in relief than anyone else in the bullpen right now. Or can we not do that?
 

BayStreetBully

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Oct 25, 2007
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And if the scrum happened in July, and Roberto Osuna tore his hamstring running in the from the Pen, would it have made it ok?

I doubt Osuna would tear his hamstring running in from the Pen, just as I doubt Benoit got hurt from simple running too. If I didn't know any better, I'd think the Jays are using this narrative to save face from an embarrassing incident.

But yes, I'd much rather Benoit get hurt in a scrum in July. Osuna? I'd HATE that any time of the year.
 

Shimso

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Oct 9, 2011
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If he actually got hurt while running to the scrum and not from actually being in or around it, then I think its reasonable to say that warmups & throwing could've caused that same injury.

Anyone know any updates on what the possible suspensions may be like?
 
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