Marner or Hischier

[leafsfan1234]

I would take that action for Hischier. Age 18, barely one season on smaller NA ice, and before the season began everyone was saying 30-40 points would be a good year. Now folks are talking 55? Sounds good to me.
At the same age, Marner was still in junior, Matthews was in Switzerland ... and instead Hischier plays 1C for the Devils, 3rd in the East. I think it's an unadulterated, unabashed SUCCESS for Hischier so far.

Yep, he's been better than expected for sure.

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Well, this season, Nico has proven that he's better than Marner

I'll take the kid with the more proven track record for now, right now that is Marner

 

[LEAFANFORLIFE23]

Not a big accomplishment if we are being honest.

So by your logic, Marner is better because he has beaten the Bruins more than the Nico has. What a bust.

Nope I'm just saying if he's as bad as BruinsLVGA implied then what does that say about your team when Marner was better than all the Bruins combined both nights?

 

[HarrisonFord]

I am infatuated with facts. Here's a fun one: in 2017-18 Nico Hischier... Age: 18... 19 games, 15 points, -2, 16:09 TOI. In 2016-17, Auston Matthews... Age: 19... 19 games, 13 points, -4, 17:28 TOI.
Matthews? Major talent & superstar from minute 1. Hischier? Meh.
Never change, Toronto fans, never change.

very interesting sample size.
After the first 23 games (used because it's easier to math the nhl.com monthly splits)? 59gp: 30g, 21a, 51pts.

Talk to me when Hischier can finish the season with 40g and 69pts or even close to that

 

[Haatley]

I'll take the kid with the more proven track record for now, right now that is Marner

How is he more proven? Cause he played one more season in the NHL after having an extra year of development?

 

[42]

Hischier without a doubt.

 

[The Winter Soldier]

Damn I just went back to read and got a good laugh.

Thanks for posting this - I now know not to take your posts seriously ever again.

You literally would need to never watch Hischier play to come to the conclusion that Hischier is not even in the same tier.

Thanks for responding. I almost missed that gem. Holy. lol

 

[Eternal Leaf]

If things continue as they are, I'd take Hischier.

He's an 18-year-old C playing well after being the #1 pick.

But it is important to have Hischier cross 60+ pts before calling him the better offensive player. You can easily have a player get stuck in the 50 pt range (unlikely!).

 

[DFF]

How is he more proven? Cause he played one more season in the NHL after having an extra year of development?

It was a Leafs fan talking stupid. The only argument they can have for Marner is that he is more "proven"

 

[BruinLVGA]

very interesting sample size.
After the first 23 games (used because it's easier to math the nhl.com monthly splits)? 59gp: 30g, 21a, 51pts.

Talk to me when Hischier can finish the season with 40g and 69pts or even close to that

You didn't think this one through...

The 19 games is because these are all the NHL games that Hischier played so far; it's his rookie season, you know?
And in Matthews rookie season, after the first 19 games those are the numbers Matthews put up. Less points, worse +/-, more minutes played than Hischier and at 19 years of age (vs 18 for Hischier) to boot.
It should make even the most homerish Leafs fan have a tiny bit of respect for how Hischier has started his career (= better than Auston "Right hand of God" Matthews did in his rookie season, for the same amount of games). It was NOT to compare him to Matthews as a player that I mentioned those numbers. It was to say "Hey, look how amazing Nico started: better than Matthews did". Was it that difficult to understand?

PS: here's some other fun stat... Hischier figures in 24.6% of all NJD goals... Marner in 19.2% of all Toronto goals...

 

[BruinLVGA]

How is he more proven? Cause he played one more season in the NHL after having an extra year of development?

*mic drop*

 

[DaPhazz]

I'll take the kid with the more proven track record for now, right now that is Marner

Bozak has a more proven NHL record than Dahlin, who would you choose?

 

[BruinLVGA]

Nope I'm just saying if he's as bad as BruinsLVGA implied then what does that say about your team when Marner was better than all the Bruins combined both nights?

I didn't imply jack crap. I said that at a point during the season Marner was demoted by the coach - which is information pertaining to the MARNER vs Hischier thread - and you came back with a dig at the Bruins, which is rather sad AND also OT.

 

[Snippit]

Bozak has a more proven NHL record than Dahlin, who would you choose?

Thank you.

This is why that line of logic is ridiculous.

 

[93LEAFS]

Thank you.

This is why that line of logic is ridiculous.

Except Marner had the more impressive track record entering the league. His production and accomplishments at the OHL level are pretty much only accomplished by elite players and Sam Gagner.

 

[Snippit]

Except Marner had the more impressive track record entering the league. His production and accomplishments at the OHL level are pretty much only accomplished by elite players and Sam Gagner.

Well Marner also had an extra junior year before entering the league.

But I'm just posting saying that the "more proven at the NHL level" argument is silly when comparing guys 2 years apart.

 

[NJ DevLolz]

Nico will produce at a similar rate and is a c and defensive beast. Why are people thinking it's Marner?

 

[93LEAFS]

Well Marner also had an extra junior year before entering the league.

Marner's 17-year-old season vs Hischier's was also significantly better. When age and league adjusted (while factoring in WJC and Playoffs at effective rates, but not U-18's or Hlinka), Marner had the 4th most productive draft season since 2005, behind only McDavid, Kane, and Crosby.

 

[Snippit]

Marner's 17-year-old season vs Hischier's was also significantly better. When age and league adjusted (while factoring in WJC and Playoffs at effective rates, but not U-18's or Hlinka), Marner had the 4th most productive draft season since 2005, behind only McDavid, Kane, and Crosby.

Dylan Strome has to rank up there too, I'm sure (he won the scoring title that year). Junior numbers are never a perfect indicator.

Marner may have had the statistically better draft year but that takes a back seat to the fact that Hischier has stepped into a 1C role and is looking great while Marner was sent back down.

Just some things to consider about Marner's draft year as well - he had the benefit of playing with a stud centre in Dvorak and found chemistry and I recall that the line of Domi-Dvorak-Marner would often get the full 2 minutes to play on the powerplay and often played 30 minutes a night. Not to take away from how good Mitch was, but I'm not sure if the situation was the same for Hischier.

 

[howkie]

I take the center

 

[Foppberg]

Nico

 

[93LEAFS]

Dylan Strome has to rank up there too, I'm sure (he won the scoring title that year). Junior numbers are never a perfect indicator.

Marner may have had the statistically better draft year but that takes a back seat to the fact that Hischier has stepped into a 1C role and is looking great while Marner was sent back down.

Just some things to consider about Marner's draft year as well - he had the benefit of playing with a stud centre in Dvorak and found chemistry and I recall that the line of Domi-Dvorak-Marner would often get the full 2 minutes to play on the powerplay and often played 30 minutes a night. Not to take away from how good Mitch was, but I'm not sure if the situation was the same for Hischier.

Marner didn't play well with Domi, and excelled in the playoffs when played only with Rupurt and Josh Sterk. I'm also not just relying on junior numbers, considering what Marner produced last year. Hischier is doing good, but he's riding underlying numbers which make him likely to regress points wise. If you want to go down this road, Hischier in his first games looked better than Eichel in his early games, and has looked better than him this year, does that make Hischier better than Eichel long-term?

Hischier while not having as talented linemates, was also given like 25 minutes a game of ice-time.

 

[Snippit]

Marner didn't play well with Domi, and excelled in the playoffs when played only with Rupurt and Josh Sterk. I'm also not just relying on junior numbers, considering what Marner produced last year. Hischier is doing good, but he's riding underlying numbers which make him likely to regress points wise. If you want to go down this road, Hischier in his first games looked better than Eichel in his early games, and has looked better than him this year, does that make Hischier better than Eichel long-term?

Well at least in Eichel's case we're comparing D+1 to D+1, and Jack did put up solid rookie year numbers.

I'm not sure what to make of Eichel at the moment because he's played terrible of late. So maybe Hischier will become better than Eichel long term, maybe he won't.

But breaking into the league and excelling in your D+1 is something guys like McDavid, Matthews, Eichel and Mackinnon have done recently. It's not easy to do.

 

[93LEAFS]

Well at least in Eichel's case we're comparing D+1 to D+1, and Jack did put up solid rookie year numbers.

I'm not sure what to make of Eichel at the moment because he's played terrible of late. So maybe Hischier will become better than Eichel long term.

The draft date is also somewhat arbitrary though. D+1 vs D+1 isn't perfect, and neither is birth year. Both put someone at a disadvantage. For example Eichel has a bigger age advantage over Marner when you compare D+1 to D+1, than if you compare them by birth year.

Look, I have no problem with people choosing Hischier right now, but 20 games isn't going to dramatically alter my opinion. If Hischier keeps it up and has a 60 point rookie season, I'll re-evaluate my position. But, 20 games are so prone to statistical noise its not going to dramatically change my opinion.

 

[PucksOnNet]

I am infatuated with facts. Here's a fun one: in 2017-18 Nico Hischier... Age: 18... 19 games, 15 points, -2, 16:09 TOI. In 2016-17, Auston Matthews... Age: 19... 19 games, 13 points, -4, 17:28 TOI.
Matthews? Major talent & superstar from minute 1. Hischier? Meh.
Never change, Toronto fans, never change.

Never once said, or even implied that Hischier was "meh". He's a good young player, he's been very impressive thus far. Merely pointing out that you're taking waaay too much from a 19 game sample size, and at the same time completely downplaying Marner's talent, who, conveniently for you, had a rough start to the year.

Don't even pretend that you're approaching this discussion with even an ounce of objectivity.