Marc Bergevin: Real Madrid ne font pas les séries ou va pas au Mondial Edition

[DAChampion]

When in doubt change the subject, it's cool. I liked Gauthiers trades, you remember what those are right? Those things you hope your GM can pull off once in a blue moon without whining about having to do their job. If they are done right you get something like a 35goal scorer, if done wrong you get to start a new "5 year plan".

Gauthier did something that Gainey and Bergevin were not able to do: he sold during a tanking year.

If you recall, at the time, fans said that Gauthier deserved no credit for that. They said that selling during a tanking year was a given, and that Gauthier had not planned his tank. Where are those fans now, given that Bergevin has tanked twice without planning to do so, and failed to sell?

 

[Captain Mountain]

Gauthier did something that Gainey and Bergevin were not able to do: he sold during a tanking year.

If you recall, at the time, fans said that Gauthier deserved no credit for that. They said that selling during a tanking year was a given, and that Gauthier had not planned his tank. Where are those fans now, given that Bergevin has tanked twice without planning to do so, and failed to sell?

Bergevin traded Flash (UFA) and Weise (UFA) for Danault and a 2nd in 2016. He got a 2nd, Valiev and Rychel this year for Plekanec (UFA).

Gainey got Gorges and a 1st (Pacioretty) in 2007 for Rivet (UFA).

the only non-rental trade Gauthier made in 2012 was the Cammarelli trade. And that trade wasn't all that great.

They all sold during a lost season. Because that's really easy to do.

 

[jackeymoon]

Weird how Real just won the Champions League without even making the Playoffs. Guess Zidane, Ronaldo and Bale just had the right attitude.

 

[jackeymoon]

Bergevin traded Flash (UFA) and Weise (UFA) for Danault and a 2nd in 2016. He got a 2nd, Valiev and Rychel this year for Plekanec (UFA).

Gainey got Gorges and a 1st (Pacioretty) in 2007 for Rivet (UFA).

the only non-rental trade Gauthier made in 2011 was the Cammarelli trade. And that trade wasn't all that great.

They all sold during a lost season. Because that's really easy to do.

Gainey was a better GM than Bergevin. He would've never pulled off this move and probably would've re-signed Rivet to a 3 year deal. How do I know? Because he did that with Plekanec.

 

[PuckSeparator]

At this rate Real Madrid will win their 25th Champions League title before the Habs win their 25th SC.

 

[mariolemieux66]

At this rate Real Madrid will win their 25th Champions League title before the Habs win their 25th SC.

Will the Habs ever win another Stanley Cup?

 

[DAChampion]

Bergevin traded Flash (UFA) and Weise (UFA) for Danault and a 2nd in 2016. He got a 2nd, Valiev and Rychel this year for Plekanec (UFA).

Gainey got Gorges and a 1st (Pacioretty) in 2007 for Rivet (UFA).

the only non-rental trade Gauthier made in 2012 was the Cammarelli trade. And that trade wasn't all that great.

They all sold during a lost season. Because that's really easy to do.

Gauthier sold Gill, Kostitsyn, and Cammalleri.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Gauthier sold Gill, Kostitsyn, and Cammalleri.

I mentioned Cammalleri (just misspelled his name). Gill and Kostitsyn were rentals, like Flash, Weise, Plekanec and Rivet.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Gauthier sold Gill, Kostitsyn, and Cammalleri.

Ah yes, a trade where we gave up the better player, better prospect but got a 2nd round pick for our troubles but not before giving up a 5th round pick as well.

Oh and the style in which he pulled it off, mid-game.

Oh and the class he showed by not even letting cammalleri have a jersey.

Jesus.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Ah yes, a trade where we gave up the better player, better prospect but got a 2nd round pick for our troubles but not before giving up a 5th round pick as well.

Oh and the style in which he pulled it off, mid-game.

Oh and the class he showed by not even letting cammalleri have a jersey.

Jesus.

Plus Bourque had more term. It was a bad trade, even before the 2nd turned out to be Fucale.

 

[BLONG7]

Because he is French and they are protecting him.

I would think, if he has another disaster type of summer, they will also turn on him, and Molson...

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Bergevin traded Flash (UFA) and Weise (UFA) for Danault and a 2nd in 2016. He got a 2nd, Valiev and Rychel this year for Plekanec (UFA).

Gainey got Gorges and a 1st (Pacioretty) in 2007 for Rivet (UFA).

the only non-rental trade Gauthier made in 2012 was the Cammarelli trade. And that trade wasn't all that great.

They all sold during a lost season. Because that's really easy to do.

I don't get why DA says only Gauthier can sell.

MB nearly got same for aged Plekanec than PG got for a prime aged kostitsyn plus gill.

Not to mention the obvious disaster Gauthier made that season:

Spacek(last year) for Kaberle(years left, eventual buyout)
Camalleri, Ramo, 5th for Bourque(Horrendous player), Holland and a 2nd
Gill for 2nd, slaney and geoffrion **Good trade, no question
Kostitsyn for a 2nd

Overall

Spacek(UFA)
Camalleri
Ramo
Kostitsyn
5th

Kaberle(Buyout)
Bourque(LOL)
Holland
Slaney
Geoffrion
2nd

Not impressive.

 

[Bryson]

Our clown GM says some crazy, crazy stuff, and never seems to get called out, by the media? Why?

 

[ArtPeur]

I wish someone could photoshop Molson's face on Arnie and Bergevin's face on the missile guy. (+ Therrien, JJD and Sly in the chopper)

 

[DAChampion]

Ah yes, a trade where we gave up the better player, better prospect but got a 2nd round pick for our troubles but not before giving up a 5th round pick as well.

Thank you for the revisionist history, but Patrick Holland was in fact the best prospect in that trade.

It wasn't Ramo lol.

I mentioned Cammalleri (just misspelled his name). Gill and Kostitsyn were rentals, like Flash, Weise, Plekanec and Rivet.

Gainey was for the most part not able to sell rentals.

Sourray and Streit say hello.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Thank you for the revisionist history, but Patrick Holland was in fact the best prospect in that trade.

It wasn't Ramo lol.

You're out to lunch. Holland was a 7th round pick, Ramo was a prospect who already played in NHL and was doing very well in KHL. He had his shortcomings though.

The reason why let go of Ramo is because Ramo wanted to compete for a starting role, something he couldn't do behind price.

Holland wasn't even PPG in CHL until he was 20...c'mon. Only reason he even did that is because he was on a line with 2 other 20 year olds who are supposed to be above 16-17 year olds lol

 

[DAChampion]

You're out to lunch. Holland was a 7th round pick, Ramo was a

Ramo was a 6th round draft pick.

I like how you rely 100% on draft rank to evaluate one player, whereas for the other player you looked at his post-draft performance.

Holland was in fact well-regarded when he was acquired by the Habs. He was acquired a full 2 years after the 2010 draft, and if the 2010 draft were redone then he would have been drafted earlier than the 7th round. His offensive aptitude exploded after his draft year, and that's why fans were happy when we acquired him.

Alas, Lefebvre never gave him a chance. Holland is among the 100% of players who spent time with Lefebvre and regressed in their offensive ability. He actually managed to get worse every single year in the AHL under Lefebvre.

Ramo did not stagnate playing for Lefebvre. He just stagnated.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Ramo was a 6th round draft pick.

I like how you rely 100% on draft rank to evaluate one player, whereas for the other player you looked at his post-draft performance.

Holland was in fact well-regarded when he was acquired by the Habs. He was acquired a full 2 years after the 2010 draft, and if the 2010 draft were redone then he would have been drafted earlier than the 7th round. His offensive aptitude exploded after his draft year, and that's why fans were happy when we acquired him.

Alas, Lefebvre never gave him a chance. Holland is among the 100% of players who spent time with Lefebvre and regressed in their offensive ability. He actually managed to get worse every single year in the AHL under Lefebvre.

Ramo did not stagnate playing for Lefebvre. He just stagnated.

Ramo played in NHL before we acquired him. He was in NHL as a goalie at 20 which f***ed with his development.

How did Holland stagnate if he only made over a PPG playing on an over-ager line while being an overager to do it? He just wasn't that good until he was 20 playing against 17 year olds.

People were happy because Ramo had no interest playing here so we got something. Most people didn't know who Patrick Holland even was.

Even if you want to argue that Holland was a better albeit shit prospect we still gave up better player.

This is as nonsensical as trading a Pacioretty(witn term)+some marginal prospect+5th for cap dump with term+some marginal prospect+2nd

and calling it a success.

I'm sorry, Bourque sucked, Holland sucked. Doesn't matter people obsessed with this trade we gave up a goal scorer who showed up for big games in exchange for crap. Ramo and Holland can be a wash for all I care but Holland had a miniscule shot at being an NHLer and at the time Ramo said he wasn't interested in the NHL(He later was).

Still, do you consider Cammalleri+5th for Bourque+2nd a success?

 

[OneSharpMarble]

Gauthier did something that Gainey and Bergevin were not able to do: he sold during a tanking year.

If you recall, at the time, fans said that Gauthier deserved no credit for that. They said that selling during a tanking year was a given, and that Gauthier had not planned his tank. Where are those fans now, given that Bergevin has tanked twice without planning to do so, and failed to sell?

Yup, during Sourays last season he was playing out of his mind but the team was total garbage. It was obvious to anyone with a clue they were going nowhere and guess what? We missed the playoffs and Gainey didn't trade him. He let one of the most valuable #1 dmen in the league walk for nothing. Later on he let 11 valuable players walk for nothing absolutely hobbling the team for years, how anyone can look back at Gaineys tenure with anything but utter disdain is hard to fathom.

I don't get why DA says only Gauthier can sell.

MB nearly got same for aged Plekanec than PG got for a prime aged kostitsyn plus gill.

Not to mention the obvious disaster Gauthier made that season:

Spacek(last year) for Kaberle(years left, eventual buyout)
Camalleri, Ramo, 5th for Bourque(Horrendous player), Holland and a 2nd
Gill for 2nd, slaney and geoffrion **Good trade, no question
Kostitsyn for a 2nd

Overall

Spacek(UFA)
Camalleri
Ramo
Kostitsyn
5th

Kaberle(Buyout)
Bourque(LOL)
Holland
Slaney
Geoffrion
2nd

Not impressive.

Still whining about Kaberle? That trade looks like a pimple compared to the decapitation trades that were McDonough and Subban. Sergachev is going to be up there as well real soon. You're just desperately grasping at straws here, over blowing these meh trades. How much did MB sign Alzner for again? The press hated PG so the puppets will dance and scream about how bad he was but when you bring up Eric Cole they all go quiet and fade away. When will MB get a 35goal scorer?

Ramo played in NHL before we acquired him. He was in NHL as a goalie at 20 which ****ed with his development.

How did Holland stagnate if he only made over a PPG playing on an over-ager line while being an overager to do it? He just wasn't that good until he was 20 playing against 17 year olds.

People were happy because Ramo had no interest playing here so we got something. Most people didn't know who Patrick Holland even was.

Even if you want to argue that Holland was a better albeit **** prospect we still gave up better player.

This is as nonsensical as trading a Pacioretty(witn term)+some marginal prospect+5th for cap dump with term+some marginal prospect+2nd

and calling it a success.

I'm sorry, Bourque sucked, Holland sucked. Doesn't matter people obsessed with this trade we gave up a goal scorer who showed up for big games in exchange for crap. Ramo and Holland can be a wash for all I care but Holland had a miniscule shot at being an NHLer and at the time Ramo said he wasn't interested in the NHL(He later was).

Still, do you consider Cammalleri+5th for Bourque+2nd a success?

Everyone in those trades sucked congrats, Cammalleri was exactly the small do nothing player we didn't need. If you want to whine we didn't get enough for him how about the piles of players Gainey got nothing at all for? You could build a team out of the players Gainey let walk for free.

Edit: Remember when Gainey traded Huet for NOTHING right before the Habs playoff run after one of the strongest seasons in years? This was so Gainey could stroke his ego to the thought of turning Price into the next Roy, unfortunately Price choked hard, the Habs got stomped, barely made it out of the first round and it set Price back years. Maybe it was for the best Gainey didn't make trades.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Still whining about Kaberle? That trade looks like a pimple compared to the decapitation trades that were McDonough and Subban. Sergachev is going to be up there as well real soon. You're just desperately grasping at straws here, over blowing these meh trades. How much did MB sign Alzner for again? The press hated PG so the puppets will dance and scream about how bad he was but when you bring up Eric Cole they all go quiet and fade away. When will MB get a 35goal scorer?



Everyone in those trades sucked congrats, Cammalleri was exactly the small do nothing player we didn't need. If you want to whine we didn't get enough for him how about the piles of players Gainey got nothing at all for? You could build a team out of the players Gainey let walk for free.

You're absolutely right. The Gomez trade and Weber trade are much bigger of a loss than the Kaberle one.

Guess who was head of pro scouting during the Gomez trade though? His last name is Gauthier. LOL

Cole had a good year then became a dead weight, MB did great to remove him. Problem is...he replaced the capspace with trash in briere and PAP.

As for MB, should be fired.

Cammalleri>>>>>Bourque

It's amazing how you pretend like Gauthier was not Gainey's right hand man the entire time.

Like I said about Gainey before(which you quoted I believe) he was fine until that last year IMO. I never applauded his final year's work.

 

[OneSharpMarble]

You're absolutely right. The Gomez trade and Weber trade are much bigger of a loss than the Kaberle one.

Guess who was head of pro scouting during the Gomez trade though? His last name is Gauthier. LOL

Cole had a good year then became a dead weight, MB did great to remove him. Problem is...he replaced the capspace with trash in briere and PAP.

As for MB, should be fired.

Cammalleri>>>>>Bourque

It's amazing how you pretend like Gauthier was not Gainey's right hand man the entire time.

Like I said about Gainey before(which you quoted I believe) he was fine until that last year IMO. I never applauded his final year's work.

Who was the GM at the time? Who was the guy responsible for the final decision? Who is MB's head of pro scouting? Nothing MB has done is his fault clearly, it's his head of pro scouting! Everyone elses fault but Gainey! You've come full circle back to blaming everything Gainey did on everyone else after you preach his great moves. Why not credit Gauthier for the Rivet trade or maybe the Kovalev trade? You don't get it both ways, you don't get to brush away his failures on others and then put him on a pedestal for everything else.

He wasn't "fine", the last year was just the culmination of years of total ineptitude coming home to roost. It was him watching his star players stagnate surrounded by 3rd line grinders because that is all Gainey was capable of acquiring. Gainey was a great player and a terrible GM, he got lucky with a couple trades and spent years doing nothing but mixing up the third line. Then he destroyed the team in his last year and ran away like a rat leaving Gauthier with a pile of horrendous contracts.

That "LOL" of yours is very appropriate, it reminds me of people trying to pump Gaineys tires after he left and was never in charge of anything a team did ever again while Gauthier won 2 cups with Chicago. LOL

 

[nhlfan9191]

Plus Bourque had more term. It was a bad trade, even before the 2nd turned out to be Fucale.

Atleast Bourque was part of one of the more positive things in the past decade. He was a lazy floater but he had that.

 

[LyricalLyricist]

Who was the GM at the time? Who was the guy responsible for the final decision? Who is MB's head of pro scouting? Nothing MB has done is his fault clearly, it's his head of pro scouting! Everyone elses fault but Gainey! You've come full circle back to blaming everything Gainey did on everyone else after you preach his great moves. Why not credit Gauthier for the Rivet trade or maybe the Kovalev trade? You don't get it both ways, you don't get to brush away his failures on others and then put him on a pedestal for everything else.

He wasn't "fine", the last year was just the culmination of years of total ineptitude coming home to roost. It was him watching his star players stagnate surrounded by 3rd line grinders because that is all Gainey was capable of acquiring. Gainey was a great player and a terrible GM, he got lucky with a couple trades and spent years doing nothing but mixing up the third line. Then he destroyed the team in his last year and ran away like a rat leaving Gauthier with a pile of horrendous contracts.

That "LOL" of yours is very appropriate, it reminds me of people trying to pump Gaineys tires after he left and was never in charge of anything a team did ever again while Gauthier won 2 cups with Chicago. LOL

Again, not a fan of Gainey's last year. I think you keep ignoring that. Gainey's last year=bad. Not sure how much more clear I need to be because you deflect from how you praise Gauthier for being part of that mess and many others.

Okay, have it your way. Do we give credit to Gainey for Kovalev and Rivet?

You do realize MB has his name on the cup in the exact same role with Chicago right? I guess you'll be praising him now? I'll wait for it. Somehow I think you'll flop on that one.

Gauthier sucked, Gainey had some good and MB is going nowhere fast.

 

[Kriss E]

Again, not a fan of Gainey's last year. I think you keep ignoring that. Gainey's last year=bad. Not sure how much more clear I need to be because you deflect from how you praise Gauthier for being part of that mess and many others.

Okay, have it your way. Do we give credit to Gainey for Kovalev and Rivet?

You do realize MB has his name on the cup in the exact same role with Chicago right? I guess you'll be praising him now? I'll wait for it. Somehow I think you'll flop on that one.

Gauthier sucked, Gainey had some good and MB is going nowhere fast.

I really do not get OSM's thing with Gauthier. I always laughed at the over the top criticism of Gauthier like people getting on him because he said "Mister" before naming someone. Or how some could not get over the fact he traded Cammy mid-game, I mean really who cares. His hands on approach of everything, for Lamoriello it was all fine and respected mob-style, but for Gauthier it was pathetic.
I thought that was always over the top and just silly.
But then he did start making terrible decisions and his firing was warranted, which makes Bergevin's firing long long overdue.

 

[Captain Mountain]

Thank you for the revisionist history, but Patrick Holland was in fact the best prospect in that trade.

It wasn't Ramo lol.


Gainey was for the most part not able to sell rentals.

Sourray and Streit say hello.

Streit wasn't a pending UFA in a lost season. He wasn't a rental. Souray was bad, but I wouldn't categorize not trading Souray at the deadline as Gainey for the most part not selling rentals.