Helene St. James Holland (probably) Won't Re-Sign Quincey, Richards (before July 1st (if at all))

[Pavels Dog]

He'd have to be an idiot not to. It fills a need, it would be a boon to the organization, it would bring a ton of hype, and it would put some sheen back on Holland's rep. Datsyuk gone? No problem. Zetterberg/Datsyuk deteriorating? Replaced by Stamkos/Larkin in less than a year. At least that's what the media machine would say.

I do wonder how people would spin Stamkos signing in Detroit when it comes to all the previous comments about Stevie Y being a much better GM than Holland. If Stevie isn't willing to pay Stamkos what he wants, what does that say about whoever does?

Should we really overpay Stamkos by 2-3 million when he's struggles to stay healthy and doesn't really look like the same player he was a couple of years ago?

 

[TheRatPoisoner]

I do wonder how people would spin Stamkos signing in Detroit when it comes to all the previous comments about Stevie Y being a much better GM than Holland. If Stevie isn't willing to pay Stamkos what he wants, what does that say about whoever does?

Should we really overpay Stamkos by 2-3 million when he's struggles to stay healthy and doesn't really look like the same player he was a couple of years ago?

Yes.

It's a gamble; you're right, but **** it as far as I'm concerned. KH said he wasn't going through a full rebuild, so that seems to be the best option right now.

 

[Reddwit]

I do wonder how people would spin Stamkos signing in Detroit when it comes to all the previous comments about Stevie Y being a much better GM than Holland. If Stevie isn't willing to pay Stamkos what he wants, what does that say about whoever does?

Should we really overpay Stamkos by 2-3 million when he's struggles to stay healthy and doesn't really look like the same player he was a couple of years ago?

The thing with Stamkos is, if he ends up sucking, that contract (along with Abby's, Z's, Hank's) probably pushes you into a rebuild. If we don't sign Stamkos, we could end up there anyway. Might as well stir up some **** before the ship goes down on the off chance things look up.

 

[Heaton]

I do wonder how people would spin Stamkos signing in Detroit when it comes to all the previous comments about Stevie Y being a much better GM than Holland. If Stevie isn't willing to pay Stamkos what he wants, what does that say about whoever does?

Should we really overpay Stamkos by 2-3 million when he's struggles to stay healthy and doesn't really look like the same player he was a couple of years ago?

I'm not sure how Stamkos is struggling to stay healthy. He broke his leg on a fluke play and now he has a blood clot issue. Other than that he's never missed a regular season game.

We sign Stamkos because he would be our best player by a ****ing mile. The chances Larkin even becomes 75% of Stamkos is EXTREMELY unlikely.

 

[HisNoodliness]

The thing with Stamkos is, if he ends up sucking, that contract (along with Abby's, Z's, Hank's) probably pushes you into a rebuild. If we don't sign Stamkos, we could end up there anyway. Might as well stir up some **** before the ship goes down on the off chance things look up.

My problem is that if we don't sign Stamkos this team will take 3-5 years to be good again (possibly a contender if we draft and develop well). Larkin, Mrazek, AA, Svech and Mantha have the makings of a decent start to a core. We need to address the defense and build up a good team around our new core but difficult as that may be it will not be impossible. If Holland trades away some of the dead weight. Let's the rest expire, and our drafts go well we can be good again pretty soon.

If we do sign Stamkos we'll be serviceable for three years ( definitely not a contender) but then he'll be in full decline. He won't be a #1 center anymore and we'll essentially bee looking at a Zetterberg 2.0 situation that has less intangibles (leadership defensive prowess). Now though instead of. 6 mil caphit it will be 11 million. We'll lose some of this core we've built because we can't resign them (I'll guess Mantha and Svech because Larkin and Mrazek will get long deals early) and find it impossible to build a good team elsewhere.

Leading to a 4 year minimum rebuild as we wait for Stammer's contract to expire and collecting high picks. By the time that happens Larkin and Mrazek plus whichever defensemen we find over the next couple of seasons will be in the twilight of their careers and we better hope they stay good old. Otherwise we could be dealing with an even longer cap hell.

Stamkos is not good enough to fix the current red wings. Pre-broken leg he was a tremendous player. He could pick up the puck in his end race down the ice and snipe it. He could battle through traffic and was honestly IMO part of what would have been the league's Big Three ( Crosby Ovechkin and Stamkos). That Stamkos could have saved our team. The leg injury ruined him. He can't carry the puck anymore. Is still somewhat quick but not nearly as fast as before, and has been pushed into the role of a pure finisher. He's still great at finishing but he needs to be carried out there. Now he has a blood clot that might affect his ability to shoot. If it is totally fine signing Stamkos is a bad idea. If he doesn't fully recover we're essentially signing Teemu Pulkinnen to a 7 year 11 million dollar contract.

Thus if we sign Stamkos 7 years minimum before the Wings even have a chance at contending. That's a long time. And it could be much longer.

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

Helm is okay for $2M/year for 2 years.. Thats his value. However, I like the Wings to have a new look next year.. No more stoned-hand..

He's already making that so it's not going to happen, His market is any where from $3.5 million to $4 million just hope that Holland doesn't give that to him. Maybe around $3 million per for 3-4 years might be alright.

 

[Pavels Dog]

We sign Stamkos because he would be our best player by a ****ing mile. The chances Larkin even becomes 75% of Stamkos is EXTREMELY unlikely.

75% of Stamkos this year:

27+21 = 48

Dylan Larkin this year:

23+22 = 45

Larkin will only get better, and in his prime will be be 10x the two-way player Stamkos is.
Stamkos has had a downward trend ever since his 60 goal season and Tampa fans had very few nice things to say about his play this season. Sign him for 10 million and it looks really, really bad if he doesn't start turning things around.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

75% of Stamkos this year:

27+21 = 48

Dylan Larkin this year:

23+22 = 45

Larkin will only get better, and in his prime will be be 10x the two-way player Stamkos is.
Stamkos has had a downward trend ever since his 60 goal season and Tampa fans had very few nice things to say about his play this season. Sign him for 10 million and it looks really, really bad if he doesn't start turning things around.

That's a little misleading because Larkin also played in 13 more games than Stamkos. If you look at it as PPG, Stamkos was at .83 and Larkin was at .56.

And who knows how the blood clot situation was affecting his play.

 

[obey86]

While emotionally it would be really cool to sign someone like Stamkos, in my brain I know it isn't the right move. So I would be excited if we signed him because he IS a good play, but realistically they should stay away.

 

[Heaton]

75% of Stamkos this year:

27+21 = 48

Dylan Larkin this year:

23+22 = 45

Larkin will only get better, and in his prime will be be 10x the two-way player Stamkos is.
Stamkos has had a downward trend ever since his 60 goal season and Tampa fans had very few nice things to say about his play this season. Sign him for 10 million and it looks really, really bad if he doesn't start turning things around.

OK, don't sign Stamkos and we can be happy with having zero elite offensive players. Signing Stamkos to a 7 year 70m deal would be a step in the right direction. Not signing Stamkos and sticking with the Ken Holland 'retool' keeps us on the bubble. Unless Ken Holland is committed to tearing it down (like he should be) Stamkos should be top priority. Otherwise, it'll continue to be a slow demise with little to build on.

 

[HockeyinHD]

The primary reason I'm ambivalent on signing Stamkos is that it's not like there's a big history of offensive forwards signing in Detroit and maintaining their old numbers. IMO that's mostly because of the system, where more emphasis has historically been placed on defensive position.

I think Stamkos would help the teams offense, I just don't think he'd come in and put up the numbers he's put up in TB for the past 5 years, which makes it a bit of a gamble to go 6, 7, 8 mil whatever per year on him.

Also, is the team Stamkos away from being elite? Probably not. While I don't think 'if a player isnt going to be the difference then don't sign him' should be a universally limiting principle (how will you ever get 1 player away if you don't sign the guys who are the 3rd and 2nd players away?), when it's likely to be the biggest dollar contract... I like those to be the final pieces rather than the initial pieces.

 

[Ezekial]

The primary reason I'm ambivalent on signing Stamkos is that it's not like there's a big history of offensive forwards signing in Detroit and maintaining their old numbers. IMO that's mostly because of the system, where more emphasis has historically been placed on defensive position.

I think Stamkos would help the teams offense, I just don't think he'd come in and put up the numbers he's put up in TB for the past 5 years, which makes it a bit of a gamble to go 6, 7, 8 mil whatever per year on him.

Also, is the team Stamkos away from being elite? Probably not. While I don't think 'if a player isnt going to be the difference then don't sign him' should be a universally limiting principle (how will you ever get 1 player away if you don't sign the guys who are the 3rd and 2nd players away?), when it's likely to be the biggest dollar contract... I like those to be the final pieces rather than the initial pieces.

6, 7, or 8 mil a year on Stamkos is hardly a gamble. He's gonna get 9.5-10 probably, which is why he won't be a wing.

 

[Bench]

OK, don't sign Stamkos and we can be happy with having zero elite offensive players. Signing Stamkos to a 7 year 70m deal would be a step in the right direction. Not signing Stamkos and sticking with the Ken Holland 'retool' keeps us on the bubble. Unless Ken Holland is committed to tearing it down (like he should be) Stamkos should be top priority. Otherwise, it'll continue to be a slow demise with little to build on.

Stamkos is also young enough he'll be a good to great player the entire tenure. Your retool/win window is the entire length of the contract. What a terrible issue to have "overpaying" an elite scoring center. The only reason Tampa is even considering letting him go is because they have a wealth of great forwards. Detroit has a wealth of pretty good forwards. They need great.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

too many fans are really drinking the larkin kool aid

i have seen nothing from him thus far to suggest he will ever match the type of impact steven stamkos has had on the nhl

if he proves me wrong then fantastic but lets not anoint the kid the next coming of steve yzerman until he proves over and over he can be a good martin lapointe

 

[Vatican Roulette]

Stay away from Stamkos. Too high a cap hit.

I see him on the same trajectory as Eric Staal.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

too many fans are really drinking the larkin kool aid

i have seen nothing from him thus far to suggest he will ever match the type of impact steven stamkos has had on the nhl

if he proves me wrong then fantastic but lets not anoint the kid the next coming of steve yzerman until he proves over and over he can be a good martin lapointe

Personally, I'm not ready to say Larkin will be a true #1 center but he has a good shot to be one. If he can be a solid #2(totally think that's doable) then I'd be ok with that from a 15th overall pick.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Personally, I'm not ready to say Larkin will be a true #1 center but he has a good shot to be one. If he can be a solid #2(totally think that's doable) then I'd be ok with that from a 15th overall pick.

but he isnt yet a franchise level player or one we can hang our hat on as becoming one

if he does match all expectations and become a legit top line producing centre then great but his presence should have no impact on the players we try and should bring in today(now)

 

[Syckle78]

too many fans are really drinking the larkin kool aid

i have seen nothing from him thus far to suggest he will ever match the type of impact steven stamkos has had on the nhl

if he proves me wrong then fantastic but lets not anoint the kid the next coming of steve yzerman until he proves over and over he can be a good martin lapointe

The key word in this entire post is 'had'. Larkin will never reach the production that stamkos had but so what stamkos won't again either. This is the problem with big name free agents, you end up paying for production that a player has already provided another team. There's a reason that big free agent signings rarely work out and teams end up with albatross contracts and buyouts.

 

[Heaton]

The key word in this entire post is 'had'. Larkin will never reach the production that stamkos had but so what stamkos won't again either. This is the problem with big name free agents, you end up paying for production that a player has already provided another team. There's a reason that big free agent signings rarely work out and teams end up with albatross contracts and buyouts.

Stamkos doesn't need to be a 60 goal scorer to immediately be the best player on this team next season.

 

[SpookyTsuki]

Personally, I'm not ready to say Larkin will be a true #1 center but he has a good shot to be one. If he can be a solid #2(totally think that's doable) then I'd be ok with that from a 15th overall pick.

He already is. Larkin won't regress to a third liner

 

[Bench]

He already is. Larkin won't regress to a third liner

He still needs to play center.

 

[Vatican Roulette]

but he isnt yet a franchise level player or one we can hang our hat on as becoming one

if he does match all expectations and become a legit top line producing centre then great but his presence should have no impact on the players we try and should bring in today(now)

Re-read my post, I agree with his potential.

But signing Stamkos is a terrible idea.

He'll want at least 10 million a season for 7 years.

And still no defense.

He already is. Larkin won't regress to a third liner

Where did I say that?

Stamkos doesn't need to be a 60 goal scorer to immediately be the best player on this team next season.

He would be the best player, and would be paid like one.

This team doesn't need an elite center, they need an elite dman that can move the puck to the forwards.

I don't care how many great forwards the team has, dman have to transition.

 

[Bench]

I don't care how many great forwards the team has [...]

Zero. They currently have zero.

And still no defense.

It's not Stamkos OR defense. It's Stamkos THEN defense. Maybe next year, or the year after. Maybe even the year after that. Point is, you'd have a window of Larkin + Stamkos running your top 2 lines for the next half decade to work with and build around. That's a fantastic foundation.

 

[Unfriendly Ghost]

But, again, this is a bit like saying the hottest girl in your social circle would be a great girlfriend for you. You just broke up with your latest, so there's an opening. Of course you should try for the hottest girl you can find.

But don't be surprised when she turns you down. In this analogy, you're the Detroit Red Wings, so you're not exactly a stud. You're on the downturn. Others are looking a lot more promising right now, and they can offer all of the same things. Yeah, maybe you treated the last few girls like princesses. But it's not even about what you've done lately, it's what you can do now and in the future. And that's not the rosiest picture.

So, sure, try. But don't get your hopes up. And have a backup plan, some tissues, and a pint of Haagen Dazs, because July might be rough.

 

[WingedWheel1987]

As if the Wings are in any position to turn down a player like Stamkos.

Larkin puts up 45 points in his first season and suddenly the Wings are set at forward...lol