Helene St. James Holland (probably) Won't Re-Sign Quincey, Richards (before July 1st (if at all))

[SpookyTsuki]

Where did I say that?

You didn't. I'm just pointing out he's already a 2nd liner. And he will be in the future. He can only get better

 

[SpookyTsuki]

He still needs to play center.

Positions don't mean much. Unless your a forward playing dfence or goalie. Larkin has played center. And has excelled at it before.

 

[Bench]

Positions don't mean much. Unless your a forward playing dfence or goalie. Larkin has played center. And has excelled at it before.

I want to see him excel at it in the NHL for a full season at center before I slot him into the franchise center job. He's not McDavid pedigree, it's far less a certain thing. He fell way off at the end of the year and didn't do much to stand out in the playoffs.

Meanwhile, that Stamkos guy is a sure bet #1 center for at least 4 years maybe longer.

 

[Claypool]

Stamkos will never live up to the massive contract he's about to sign. His days of scoring 50+ are probably over. He's lucky to hit 40 now.

 

[Bench]

Stamkos will never live up to the massive contract he's about to sign. His days of scoring 50+ are probably over. He's lucky to hit 40 now.

Well currently the team wouldn't need somebody "lucky" to hit 40 goals, they'd need somebody to be a Mega Millions jackpot winner. And possibly struck by lightning. Throw in a few hole in ones, too, while we're at it.

 

[Pavels Dog]

The only reason Tampa is even considering letting him go is because they have a wealth of great forwards. Detroit has a wealth of pretty good forwards. They need great.

The reason is Stamkos basically became a 2nd liner on that team, refuses to move to the wing, and is asking too much money.

too many fans are really drinking the larkin kool aid

i have seen nothing from him thus far to suggest he will ever match the type of impact steven stamkos has had on the nhl

if he proves me wrong then fantastic but lets not anoint the kid the next coming of steve yzerman until he proves over and over he can be a good martin lapointe

I've seen nothing from Stamkos lately that indicates he'll match the impact he had earlier in his career.

And come on. Larkin looked like the leader on Team USA at the WJC, he looks like a leader for Team USA at the WHC, and he had 1 point less than Stamkos had in his NHL rookie season. It's not the reason I'm not sold on the idea of chasing Stamkos, but Larkin is legit. He's a player you build around.

Well currently the team wouldn't need somebody "lucky" to hit 40 goals, they'd need somebody to be a Mega Millions jackpot winner. And possibly struck by lightning. Throw in a few hole in ones, too, while we're at it.

You don't need a 40-goal scorer to be succesful. Of the remaining teams in the playoffs, 1 had a 40-goal player.
Problem is also that if you give 10 million dollars to Stamkos and he gets injured, that's 40 goals out of your lineup. If you use that 10 million on two players that cost 5 million each, you're possibly getting 40+ goals all the same but you're spreading the risk. Okposo+Radulov maybe?

 

[Retire91]

He'd have to be an idiot not to. It fills a need, it would be a boon to the organization, it would bring a ton of hype, and it would put some sheen back on Holland's rep. Datsyuk gone? No problem. Zetterberg/Datsyuk deteriorating? Replaced by Stamkos/Larkin in less than a year. At least that's what the media machine would say.

In less than a year? This team has been declining for 6 or 7 years now with move after move that was simply a stop gap to ensure 2 home playoff games a year.

If he signs Stamkos he has to put a defense behind him and until that is addressed we could have Crosby Malkin and Stamkos up front and it wouldn't matter. Fix the defense first, worry about the Stamkos's of the world later. Stamkos is a distraction preventing the focus on the real problem which is the worst defense to enter the playoffs in each of the last 3 seasons.

 

[Reddwit]

In less than a year? This team has been declining for 6 or 7 years now with move after move that was simply a stop gap to ensure 2 home playoff games a year.

If he signs Stamkos he has to put a defense behind him and until that is addressed we could have Crosby Malkin and Stamkos up front and it wouldn't matter. Fix the defense first, worry about the Stamkos's of the world later. Stamkos is a distraction preventing the focus on the real problem which is the worst defense to enter the playoffs in each of the last 3 seasons.

Reading comp, my man. Larkin showed up in the fall, Stamkos shows up in the summer, and the media juggernaut that would result would say "look how he just replaced his top two centers in less than a year." Didn't say anything about the defense, although you've certainly bought yourself some time then.

 

[Retire91]

Reading comp, my man. Larkin showed up in the fall, Stamkos shows up in the summer, and the media juggernaut that would result would say "look how he just replaced his top two centers in less than a year." Didn't say anything about the defense, although you've certainly bought yourself some time then.

Ah roger that I misread you. I still would have problems with that claim being any kind of wash for his lack of action in other areas.

 

[PelagicJoe]

We need help scoring badly. Stamkos is a generational talent. I'll still take Stamkos scoring "only 40 goals," because that's just a little less than double what anyone else on this team is scoring currently.

 

[HisNoodliness]

We need help scoring badly. Stamkos is a generational talent. I'll still take Stamkos scoring "only 40 goals," because that's just a little less than double what anyone else on this team is scoring currently.

He maybe was going to be a generational talent but injuries will prevent that. He's not what he used to be. Sure he'll get 40 maybe 2 times with the wings. But then it'll be a couple years of maybe 30 goals and then just as the red wings are finishing our current rebuild window we'll be paying 11 million for a 20 goal 3C power play specialist.

 

[Heaton]

He maybe was going to be a generational talent but injuries will prevent that. He's not what he used to be. Sure he'll get 40 maybe 2 times with the wings. But then it'll be a couple years of maybe 30 goals and then just as the red wings are finishing our current rebuild window we'll be paying 11 million for a 20 goal 3C power play specialist.

What exactly are our other options? And what injuries are you talking about?

 

[Number1RedWingsFan52]

He maybe was going to be a generational talent but injuries will prevent that. He's not what he used to be. Sure he'll get 40 maybe 2 times with the wings. But then it'll be a couple years of maybe 30 goals and then just as the red wings are finishing our current rebuild window we'll be paying 11 million for a 20 goal 3C power play specialist.

What Injuries are you talking about? He's just had the one broken leg and now the blood clot Stamkos has been pretty healthy in his 8 years in Tampa Bay.

 

[HisNoodliness]

What Injuries are you talking about? He's just had the one broken leg and now the blood clot Stamkos has been pretty healthy in his 8 years in Tampa Bay.

More so the leg than the clot but mainly the leg. Tampa is my number two team and I watch them 70+ games a season ( plus now 20+ playoff games seeing as they're in the finals every year). But after his broken leg he became a passenger in Tampa. He generates almost none of his offense. The blood clot is scary because it could affect his shooting as well which is pretty much his only elite quality nowadays.

 

[HisNoodliness]

What exactly are our other options? And what injuries are you talking about?

Wait it out. Radulov is fine as a short term addition so Holland can maybe have his playoff streak. But this team needs to build a new defense core and address some needs at center. That's going to take a while of great drafting. Stamkos is a bandaid on a bullet wound. He'd help but not enough and by the time we're actually good his contract is going to be awful.

 

[Heaton]

Wait it out. Radulov is fine as a short term addition so Holland can maybe have his playoff streak. But this team needs to build a new defense core and address some needs at center. That's going to take a while of great drafting. Stamkos is a bandaid on a bullet wound. He'd help but not enough and by the time we're actually good his contract is going to be awful.

I think you're making a mistake in thinking that Stamkos is a final solution. Stamkos is 26, going on 27 and in his prime. The Wings would sign Stamkos, make a deal to get a defensemen and be MUCH closer to contending than sitting back and doing the Holland special while continuing to make the playoffs every year and getting mid first round draft picks.

Radulov does nothing by himself, getting more wingers gets us no where. We need centers and defense, that should be the entire focus. Without centers and defense every other move is irrelevant.

 

[taliababa]

I'd take Stammers 40 goals considering our leading point getter had 50 points.

 

[HisNoodliness]

I think you're making a mistake in thinking that Stamkos is a final solution. Stamkos is 26, going on 27 and in his prime. The Wings would sign Stamkos, make a deal to get a defensemen and be MUCH closer to contending than sitting back and doing the Holland special while continuing to make the playoffs every year and getting mid first round draft picks.

Radulov does nothing by himself, getting more wingers gets us no where. We need centers and defense, that should be the entire focus. Without centers and defense every other move is irrelevant.

See my perspective is that even with Stamkos we're not going to contend for a cup.

The red wings from last season +Stamkos, Vatanen, Radulov and Shattenkirk
but - Nyquist, Tatar, Svech, a 1st, Pulkks, Smith, and Datsuk will lose in the first two rounds of the playoffs.

I'm all for centers and defense. Radulov would allow us to trade for defense while maintaining our winger group that is a point of strength, but I don't think acquiring the amount of help we need is possible atm and as Holland won't rebuild we just need a long slow retool. By the time that's over and this team can maybe contend, Stamkos will be a burden.

 

[Bench]

See my perspective is that even with Stamkos we're not going to contend for a cup. .

Not next year. But what about in 5 years?

You can't fix every position at once. This fixes center for at least 5 years. There's your window to upgrade the defense.

 

[HisNoodliness]

Not next year. But what about in 5 years?

You can't fix every position at once. This fixes center for at least 5 years. There's your window to upgrade the defense.

I think in 5 years Steven Stamkos will have arguably the worst contract in the NHL. If the Wings were 1 or 2 years from fixing the D I'd be all for it but I agree that we're 4-5 from fixing it and Stammer is a 4 year acquisition that we'll be committing 7 years 80 million to. That'll make the rebuild very hard when he declines.

 

[Shaman464]

He already is. Larkin won't regress to a third liner

No, he's a top 6 winger right now. Being a top line center is more than just flying around and scoring, that's why there are a lot of great wingers and few great centers.

 

[Reddwit]

See my perspective is that even with Stamkos we're not going to contend for a cup.

The red wings from last season +Stamkos, Vatanen, Radulov and Shattenkirk
but - Nyquist, Tatar, Svech, a 1st, Pulkks, Smith, and Datsuk will lose in the first two rounds of the playoffs.

I'm all for centers and defense. Radulov would allow us to trade for defense while maintaining our winger group that is a point of strength, but I don't think acquiring the amount of help we need is possible atm and as Holland won't rebuild we just need a long slow retool. By the time that's over and this team can maybe contend, Stamkos will be a burden.

LOL, there is literally no such thing as a "long, slow retool." That is what we have been doing for half a decade and look where we are: still retooling.

And using Svechnikov, a 1st, Pulkkinen, and Smith as reasons why we won't make it out of the 1st or 2nd round when ALL of those assets weren't in play for more than half of our most recent playoffs makes you sound desperate....

If his first NHL stint at 20, his second NHL stint at 25, his most recent KHL stint that easily outdid Panarin at 28, and size are any indication - and I think thats a pretty good argument - then Rad > Tatar or Nyquist.

Then you're saddling up a still recuperating Stamkos to a 36 year old Datsyuk. Easy advantage for the new guy.

Then you've got...I don't know Shattenkirk/Vatanen vs. Quincey? Easy competition.

Then...what? Realistically, its Vatanen/Shattenkirk vs. Smith, and thats just a joke.

Then probably Tatar/Nyquist vs. Athanasiou. This might be the hit you take. Maybe. Its hard to say with AA's speed, size, and skill he exhibited as 4th liner with basically no line help.

I think in 5 years Steven Stamkos will have arguably the worst contract in the NHL. If the Wings were 1 or 2 years from fixing the D I'd be all for it but I agree that we're 4-5 from fixing it and Stammer is a 4 year acquisition that we'll be committing 7 years 80 million to. That'll make the rebuild very hard when he declines.

In 5 years, if Stamkos is the worst contract in the NHL, then we're rebuilding anyway. Holland already said the Wings aren't rebuilding this year. They sure as **** aren't rebuilding in the months prior to opening up a billion dollar arena. So now we're 3 years out. Who gives a **** if Stamkos is the worst contract in the NHL when we'd be rebuilding if we didn't sign him anyway?

The way I see it, its a win/win. You either spend big money on exciting assets and end up flaming out or flying high after the arena already becomes home....or you don't spend big and die out slowly because you never took a risk.

What's Neil Young up to? Better to burn out than fade away...

 

[Bench]

I think in 5 years Steven Stamkos will have arguably the worst contract in the NHL. If the Wings were 1 or 2 years from fixing the D I'd be all for it but I agree that we're 4-5 from fixing it and Stammer is a 4 year acquisition that we'll be committing 7 years 80 million to. That'll make the rebuild very hard when he declines.

I think people forget Nyquist is older than Stamkos. If Stamkos is due for his game to go off a cliff, well, can't wait to see what a 40-point winger turns into.

 

[Claypool]

I think people forget Nyquist is older than Stamkos. If Stamkos is due for his game to go off a cliff, well, can't wait to see what a 40-point winger turns into.

Difference being, of course, that Nyquist has played half as many NHL games and hasn't sustained a major injury. Stamkos has peaked (I believe). Nyquist has not.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

I think you're making a mistake in thinking that Stamkos is a final solution. Stamkos is 26, going on 27 and in his prime. The Wings would sign Stamkos, make a deal to get a defensemen and be MUCH closer to contending than sitting back and doing the Holland special while continuing to make the playoffs every year and getting mid first round draft picks.

Radulov does nothing by himself, getting more wingers gets us no where. We need centers and defense, that should be the entire focus. Without centers and defense every other move is irrelevant.

Radulov does a lot by himself. Not that I don't agree with the overarching point that overpaying a stud player with a proven track record in the league is probably a good idea for us at this point.

But to the last point, Radulov as a winger generates more offense by himself and for his teammates than Stamkos does down the middle. Steven Stamkos' future is on the wing anyway shortly here. That leg injury is a big deal it took a step out of his game and he was never really very good in his own end to begin with. He should be moved to wing at some point soon in my opinion.

Now you can pay him to play down the middle for the next couple of years, that is ideal while you try to find a long-term answer that shifts him to the wing. Adding Stamkos improves this team, moving the salaries it would take to lock him up probably improves the team as again they would have had to have found a way out from under some of the guys we despise. But Stamkos isn't a top 10 center in this league anymore and really if you take into account the 200 foot game he really never has been. We will see what happens, but for instance I hope Larkin becomes a better center than Stamkos because he has the ability to play a championship delivering kind of center, one I don't believe Stamkos really does.