Speculation: GM Lou Lamoriello to take lesser role with team?

[93LEAFS]

Ridiculous? Maybe. But expectations are high, right? I never said he had to consistently hit on every prospect. I even said so. But right now, he's got a lot of misses and plenty of players around his picks have flourished. While we have to wait a bit to see how it turns out, not exactly impressive either. Hunter got all his guys, as you say, in the scouting positions, so it's sort of on him... right?

We want to diminish Dubas' accomplishments and his body of work to "So what? No bid deal. Meh. Whatever", I guess that's what I'm doing with Hunter in a way.

Also, Morrison was part of the scouting staff in 2004 but was only named director in 2006. I thought he was director when we drafted Rask. I wasn't much of a fan of Morrison, but simply to illustrate that I don't think Hunter has been overly more impressive.

Morrison had notable gaffs. Hunter hit on both high-picks he's had. Morrison hit on 2 of 3, missing on Schenn, doing well on Rielly and Kadri. I don't think Hunter is a drafting god. I believe he should be capable of beating league average though with his scouting skill, staff and resources. Morrison wasn't doing this. He botched every pick he oversaw in the 20's range as scouting director. Here are his picks in the 20-50 range over his lifespan with the Leafs. Gauthier, Matt Finn, Biggs, Percy, Brad Ross, and Kenny Ryan.

I don't want to diminish Dubas's accomplishments, but as for effect on the NHL team, there really isn't much that can be directly pointed to. Hunter, at least we have something that is quite clear, his draft record over 3 years. Neither are perfect candidates. I personally side with Hunter, as I respect what he has done managing out scouting staff, and completely rebuilding it. He has almost completely turned over the scouting staff he inherited, and I think he is doing a good job at that, luring in highly respected people like Tim Speltz and Ari Vuori.

Its respectable what Dubas has done with the Marlies and SSM. But, Hunter turned around a team that was an also ran prior to him, into the premier franchise of the CHL. Now, he had more resources than most, due to the opening of the JLC, but he was heavily involved in that project.

 

[hotpaws]

Fortunately 93LEAFS is capable of actual debate/discussion, unlike you.

You don’t even know where I stand on the subject but come in throwing wild claims

Perhaps you aren’t stirring **** up, but you sure make yourself look like a [redacted]

maybe 93Leafs hasn't had the pleasure of going in circles with you while you spin or deflect instead of ever admitting you're wrong

you didn't believe him about a rift in mgmt , then Mirtle article came out now he's an idiot as well , i've also heard of issues mentioned by other media members including Friedman (but they put it much more politically correct)

but in your opinion it's one big happy family and they'll all fall in line with whatever Shanny tells them to do like good little sheeple even though it's obviously going to be a power struggle over who gets to be our GM after LL

 

[93LEAFS]

Perhaps. Is there anything you can point to that shows Hunter’s input into Smith’s hiring?

Word of mouth around the OHL. When re-shaping our coaching staff at the NHL and AHL level, when Babs was choosing the staffs, Shanahan let each guy push a certain candidate forward, looking for younger promising coaches ready to make the move up. Dubas's choice was Keefe, Hunter's was DJ Smith. The young recommended coaches got the opportunity to interview Babcock.

As noted here. The Leafs processes are fairly tight-lipped with no one willing to go on record for a bunch of stories. Especially under Lou, they aren't going to be taking individual credit in the media.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Canes will have a job opening, maybe Dubas heads there?

 

[Coachcorner]

Bigger role of course. The Godfather of hockey is still here, still living. The legend will make us better and he'll make that handshake y'lall don't even know about man. Now I'm bout that.

 

[Buds17]

Canes will have a job opening, maybe Dubas heads there?

Maybe, though I wonder if they opt for more of a veteran hire? Wonder if we might make good trading partners sooner or later, as new people in charge (management/ownership) typically leads to new ideas in the form of eventual changes?

 

[93LEAFS]

Maybe, though I wonder if they opt for more of a veteran hire? Wonder if we might make good trading partners sooner or later, as new people in charge (management/ownership) typically leads to new ideas in the form of eventual changes?

I don't think anyone has a read on Dundon. Could want a respected vet or could be chasing a new-age guy. Until we see who he targets for a president role it will be hard to tell.

 

[Buds17]

I don't think anyone has a read on Dundon. Could want a respected vet or could be chasing a new-age guy. Until we see who he targets for a president role it will be hard to tell.

Definitely. Been a while since the team has been in the playoffs and I thought maybe they'd want someone with more experience/track record coming after the tenure of Francis. Interesting time to make a change too in a way.

 

[Cor]

maybe 93Leafs hasn't had the pleasure of going in circles with you while you spin or deflect instead of ever admitting you're wrong

you didn't believe him about a rift in mgmt , then Mirtle article came out now he's an idiot as well , i've also heard of issues mentioned by other media members including Friedman (but they put it much more politically correct)

but in your opinion it's one big happy family and they'll all fall in line with whatever Shanny tells them to do like good little sheeple even though it's obviously going to be a power struggle over who gets to be our GM after LL

Maybe we appear to go in circles and I am "deflecting" because I'm just constantly trying to correct you on the actual argument because you have the comprehension of a fiddle. Also, I have admitted I am wrong in several occurrences. [On David Clarkson, I have said before I was wrong about the player. When you brought that 5 year old topic up last week, I had to explain that myself (and @Daisy Jane ) simply defended up due to the circumstances (suspension, injuries) and were willing to write off the 1st year, in hopes of a better second year. That started poorly, we then criticized him as well, and a few months later, management traded him. That is all besides the point]

- No, I don't believe 93Leafs that there's a big rift, because I have no reason to believe him.
- I never called Mirtle an idiot (and the stuff he mentioned in that article, re; Hunter won't want to report to Dubas, he came out with roughly 10 months ago, it's nothing new) in fact, I said he's a very credible columnist and reporter (have said before he's one of my favorites), but is not a credible insider.
- Again, please show where it is mentioned by other media members, preferably Friedman, McKenzie, or Lebrun

Also, you can mock the opinion that Mark Hunter will not quit if Dubas is named GM as "the sheeple just following Shanny" and that's fine. However, it's more likely that this management group that has worked for the past 3, 4, 5 seasons to build this team to what it is, an impending championship contender, are likely not going to all quit and implode because 74-75 year old Lou Lamoriello got moved into an advisory or director role (or whatever role it may be), and 32 year old Kyle Dubas, currently General Manager of the Toronto Marlies, moves into the General Manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs role.

If, as the panel reported, Shanahan said openly that Lamoriello won't be GM after this season, and if, as the panel threw out (and as 93Leafs corrected the wording) that it's maybe Kyle Dubas taking over, and if as James Mirtle reported it IS Kyle Dubas taking over, do you not think Brenden Shanahan, and Mark Hunter, has discussed the topic? Two guys who have gone back decades? Or is it more likely that Brenden Shanahan announces Kyle Dubas as the new GM and Mark Hunter subsequently quits?

 

[Cor]

I don't think anyone has a read on Dundon. Could want a respected vet or could be chasing a new-age guy. Until we see who he targets for a president role it will be hard to tell.

Definitely. Been a while since the team has been in the playoffs and I thought maybe they'd want someone with more experience/track record coming after the tenure of Francis. Interesting time to make a change too in a way.

Dundon is definitely a bold guy. I agree with you both that it's going to be incredibly interesting situation to watch.

Dean Lombardi and Ken Holland are likely to be the two most experienced guys this summer.

Someone will eventually get to hire Paul Fenton, and are going to get a homerun.

 

[93LEAFS]

Dundon is definitely a bold guy. I agree with you both that it's going to be incredibly interesting situation to watch.

Dean Lombardi and Ken Holland are likely to be the two most experienced guys this summer.

Someone will eventually get to hire Paul Fenton, and are going to get a homerun.

Briesbois is also linked everywhere.

 

[93LEAFS]

Maybe we appear to go in circles and I am "deflecting" because I'm just constantly trying to correct you on the actual argument because you have the comprehension of a fiddle. Also, I have admitted I am wrong in several occurrences. [On David Clarkson, I have said before I was wrong about the player. When you brought that 5 year old topic up last week, I had to explain that myself (and @Daisy Jane ) simply defended up due to the circumstances (suspension, injuries) and were willing to write off the 1st year, in hopes of a better second year. That started poorly, we then criticized him as well, and a few months later, management traded him. That is all besides the point]

- No, I don't believe 93Leafs that there's a big rift, because I have no reason to believe him.
- I never called Mirtle an idiot (and the stuff he mentioned in that article, re; Hunter won't want to report to Dubas, he came out with roughly 10 months ago, it's nothing new) in fact, I said he's a very credible columnist and reporter (have said before he's one of my favorites), but is not a credible insider.
- Again, please show where it is mentioned by other media members, preferably Friedman, McKenzie, or Lebrun

Also, you can mock the opinion that Mark Hunter will not quit if Dubas is named GM as "the sheeple just following Shanny" and that's fine. However, it's more likely that this management group that has worked for the past 3, 4, 5 seasons to build this team to what it is, an impending championship contender, are likely not going to all quit and implode because 74-75 year old Lou Lamoriello got moved into an advisory or director role (or whatever role it may be), and 32 year old Kyle Dubas, currently General Manager of the Toronto Marlies, moves into the General Manager of the Toronto Maple Leafs role.

If, as the panel reported, Shanahan said openly that Lamoriello won't be GM after this season, and if, as the panel threw out (and as 93Leafs corrected the wording) that it's maybe Kyle Dubas taking over, and if as James Mirtle reported it IS Kyle Dubas taking over, do you not think Brenden Shanahan, and Mark Hunter, has discussed the topic? Two guys who have gone back decades? Or is it more likely that Brenden Shanahan announces Kyle Dubas as the new GM and Mark Hunter subsequently quits?

They could have easily discussed it (same with Lou and Shanahan) but have disagreed, and agreed that one will move on afterwards. Its not like Mark Hunter will be short for suitors for a director of scouting job or an AGM job if he doesn't want to work under Dubas. He also makes a fortune off the Knights, which gives him way more flexibility than the average employee.

 

[Cor]

Briesbois is also linked everywhere.

That's another name. I feel like if/when MTL fires Bergevin, he and somehow Pierre McGuire will be two finalists for that job (though perhaps McGuire's current battle with cancer may prevent him from entering GM discussions this summer)

Craig Conroy was linked to BUF during their search as well. JFJ is entering GM discussions again.

 

[Cor]

They could have easily discussed it (same with Lou and Shanahan) but have disagreed, and agreed that one will move on afterwards. Its not like Mark Hunter will be short for suitors for a director of scouting job or an AGM job if he doesn't want to work under Dubas. He also makes a fortune off the Knights, which gives him way more flexibility than the average employee.

If Mark Hunter leaves the Leafs, he will just be going back to London. I will concede on everything up to this point, with the exception of that.

 

[WTFMAN99]

That's another name. I feel like if/when MTL fires Bergevin, he and somehow Pierre McGuire will be two finalists for that job (though perhaps McGuire's current battle with cancer may prevent him from entering GM discussions this summer)

Craig Conroy was linked to BUF during their search as well. JFJ is entering GM discussions again.

From what has been reported is that Pierre McGuire's cancer is able to be kept in check because it was caught early? I hope so.

 

[Cor]

From what has been reported is that Pierre McGuire's cancer is able to be kept in check because it was caught early? I hope so.

Yeah, it sounds like they caught it early.

However, it still may prevent him from wanting to enter the grind of being an NHL GM, or maybe it would motivate him more? Hard to say.

 

[93LEAFS]

If Mark Hunter leaves the Leafs, he will just be going back to London. I will concede on everything up to this point, with the exception of that.

Who knows on that, he may want to show people he was wronged by not being chosen as the guy. I think Dubas is the front runner (but I also think Mirtle is jumping the gun a bit, as I suspect that Mirtle's source is Dubas). As I would put it as unlikely that it's from Hunter, Shanahan, or Lou. If it was Hunter's spin, my guess is it would come from Bob McKenzie.

Its pretty clear a bunch of people play the media game to that extent. For example, to this day I'm convinced Mike Futa is a Bob McKenzie source considering for whatever reason, Bob links Futa to every possible job, even if there are limited links. Its also pretty clear Button supports guys in Calgary (his brother) and Arizona (Tim Bernhardt, Arizona's scouting director who came up under Button in Dallas). This type of stuff is always done in the States for job openings (especially College Football). Guys try to get their names floated by media, so there stock looks on the rise to others.

One of my favorite quotes was from last year. There was a story going around the Memorial Cup that NHL teams, including Colorado was looking at Warren Rychel for a role similar to Mark Hunters. People at the MC told me, that apparently that was going around, but the biggest source of these rumors was Warren Rychel.

 

[Daisy Jane]

Dundon is definitely a bold guy. I agree with you both that it's going to be incredibly interesting situation to watch.

Dean Lombardi and Ken Holland are likely to be the two most experienced guys this summer.

Someone will eventually get to hire Paul Fenton, and are going to get a homerun.

US.
I want US to get Paul Fenton from what I remember Shanahan was after him before.

 

[Daisy Jane]

That's another name. I feel like if/when MTL fires Bergevin, he and somehow Pierre McGuire will be two finalists for that job (though perhaps McGuire's current battle with cancer may prevent him from entering GM discussions this summer)

Craig Conroy was linked to BUF during their search as well. JFJ is entering GM discussions again.

what? he has cancer?

I think there are a lot of things up in the air.
places we know who needs a GM
Toronto, Carolina, Seattle, Detroit. (potentially Tampa).

if Chia gets fired - Edmonton, but knowing Katz he'll probably just hire Gretzky or something.
if Snow bungles up the Tavares thing he's probably gone...
Chayka? (maybe i doubt it).

so let's just go with
5 known + 2 maybes.

Yzerman probably stays.
Seattle isn't a player. Though Lieweke is a player, so it could be any one of people he "knows"(lombardi, holland, or poach Dubas arguably).

it's a weirdo time.

 

[WTFMAN99]

Yeah, it sounds like they caught it early.

However, it still may prevent him from wanting to enter the grind of being an NHL GM, or maybe it would motivate him more? Hard to say.

I think last time Montreal might regret not going with McGuire, couldn't have done worse right?

 

[Buds17]

US.
I want US to get Paul Fenton from what I remember Shanahan was after him before.

I remember when Fenton wore our uniform (very briefly)

He'd be a great hire. Agree with Cor's sentiment of him being someone's homerun.

 

[Cor]

Who knows on that, he may want to show people he was wronged by not being chosen as the guy. I think Dubas is the front runner (but I also think Mirtle is jumping the gun a bit, as I suspect that Mirtle's source is Dubas). As I would put it as unlikely that it's from Hunter, Shanahan, or Lou. If it was Hunter's spin, my guess is it would come from Bob McKenzie.

Its pretty clear a bunch of people play the media game to that extent. For example, to this day I'm convinced Mike Futa is a Bob McKenzie source considering for whatever reason, Bob links Futa to every possible job, even if there are limited links. Its also pretty clear Button supports guys in Calgary (his brother) and Arizona (Tim Bernhardt, Arizona's scouting director who came up under Button in Dallas). This type of stuff is always done in the States for job openings (especially College Football). Guys try to get their names floated by media, so there stock looks on the rise to others.

One of my favorite quotes was from last year. There was a story going around the Memorial Cup that NHL teams, including Colorado was looking at Warren Rychel for a role similar to Mark Hunters. People at the MC told me, that apparently that was going around, but the biggest source of these rumors was Warren Rychel.

One of the 31 Thoughts podcasts, Friedman actually talks about how he'll have guys ask him to float their names out there, and he usually tells them, that if he puts their name out, and it's not true, the teams will know that the person themselves are floating their own names out, and it will just coast them.

I forget which one it is exactly, but he talks a lot about being that mouthpiece.

 

[WTFMAN99]

You know who would have been an awesome hire way back when? Poile. The dude chose Nashville even after we offered him the job though

 

[Cor]

what? he has cancer?

I think there are a lot of things up in the air.
places we know who needs a GM
Toronto, Carolina, Seattle, Detroit. (potentially Tampa).

if Chia gets fired - Edmonton, but knowing Katz he'll probably just hire Gretzky or something.
if Snow bungles up the Tavares thing he's probably gone...
Chayka? (maybe i doubt it).

so let's just go with
5 known + 2 maybes.

Yzerman probably stays.
Seattle isn't a player. Though Lieweke is a player, so it could be any one of people he "knows"(lombardi, holland, or poach Dubas arguably).

it's a weirdo time.

I forgot Lieweke is heading the Seattle team. I can see Dean Lombardi being his guy for sure.

 

[93LEAFS]

One of the 31 Thoughts podcasts, Friedman actually talks about how he'll have guys ask him to float their names out there, and he usually tells them, that if he puts their name out, and it's not true, the teams will know that the person themselves are floating their own names out, and it will just coast them.

I forget which one it is exactly, but he talks a lot about being that mouthpiece.

Its usually done as a trade for info to an extent. It is not like asking for a favor.

I'm sure its done. The media, management and agents all need each other.