Post-Game Talk: Game 4: Canucks 2 Cowgary 5 | That was...sub-optimal.

[Pip]

"Benning has been great at drafting; look at all these great picks from [INSERT YEAR OF MOST RECENT DRAFT]!"

Yeah. Drafts almost always look good when the players picked are still in junior or overseas. If you’re a draft pick who’s not lighting up junior that is VERY concerning since high junior production is basically a prerequisite for doing anything as a pro.

As for the 2014 draft, it looks really good in the sense that Virtanen, McCann, and Forsling are NHLers, Demko is tracking well and Tryamkin would be an NHLer if he hadn’t bolted. That’s a good haul even if the Virtanen pick was terrible given the other options available. The problem in my mind of crediting Benning for this draft is that he has been so willing to move Forsling and McCann, plus they seemed to have mishandled Tryamkin (you could argue that he simply didn’t receive special treatment which is fair but when picking talented players who do have a strong KHL threat, you do have to cater to them to a degree). The Forsling trade especially seems suspect since who trades one of their recent picks who is tracking very well for a marginal NHLer with some upside. It leads me to believe that Benning had limited input.

What’s most concerning to me is the development of young players. Multiple high end prospects have come in too heavy and management at both the AHL level and NHL level have been extremely suspect.

At the end of the day drafting is only a part of rebuilding and I truly believe that Canucks management and coaching is actively hurting our young players.

 

[Orca Smash]

Meh, doesn't matter what I think. The point is that Green clearly trusts Boeser and you think he has something against Boeser. You're acting irrationally.

Ugh I know i said I wouldnt but, I dont think he has anything personal against boeser, your making mountains of molehills again, but I do think he feels his veterans give him the best chance to win over boeser and I disagree with that.

And your right he trusts him so much he was removed from the top PP unit late in the game after it went 0-7.

We will see how things go in the future.

 

[Pip]

Surprised they played Markstrom tonight. Thought they were going to let the 2 of them play it out for the starter. Regardless, Markstrom really hasn’t been good enough so far to grab the starters job. I would assume that Nilsson gets the next game and if he does well then who knows.

 

[Melvin]

Yeah. Drafts almost always look good when the players picked are still in junior or overseas. If you’re a draft pick who’s not lighting up junior that is VERY concerning since high junior production is basically a prerequisite for doing anything as a pro.

As for the 2014 draft, it looks really good in the sense that Virtanen, McCann, and Forsling are NHLers, Demko is tracking well and Tryamkin would be an NHLer if he hadn’t bolted. That’s a good haul even if the Virtanen pick was terrible given the other options available. The problem in my mind of crediting Benning for this draft is that he has been so willing to move Forsling and McCann, plus they seemed to have mishandled Tryamkin (you could argue that he simply didn’t receive special treatment which is fair but when picking talented players who do have a strong KHL threat, you do have to cater to them to a degree). The Forsling trade especially seems suspect since who trades one of their recent picks who is tracking very well for a marginal NHLer with some upside. It leads me to believe that Benning had limited input.

What’s most concerning to me is the development of young players. Multiple high end prospects have come in too heavy and management at both the AHL level and NHL level have been extremely suspect.

At the end of the day drafting is only a part of rebuilding and I truly believe that Canucks management and coaching is actively hurting our young players.

I agree but think you underweight the Virtanen whiff. Taking Virtanen over Nylander/Ehlers has f***ed us so badly that the rest of the draft almost doesn't matter. And yes, he likely was not big on Forsling/McCann which is why he traded them (and even before he traded them, we heard from Paterson that he was lowest on McCann of all the 2014 picks.)

Even if we still had McCann and Forsling, wouldn't you trade all three of Virtanen+McCann+Forsling for Nylander? I mean honestly. That might go down as one of the biggest draft blunders in our history, at the time where we could least afford to make such a critical error.

I would probably trade all of Benning's picks 2014-2016 for Nylander+Tkachuk.

 

[Rick Rocket]

Hey did Jake not play?

 

[VanillaCoke]

f***ing up those two drafts is what will cost us any chance at a cup for a decade at least.

 

[Knight53]

All those empty seats...... tried putting towels on them to make it seem like the arena was more lively

How is Dim Jim not fired yet?

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Hey did Jake not play?

Nope. Scratched.

 

[WTG]

I'll say it over and over again, the only time he's had success in pro hockey is when he had a hot goaltender carrying him.

Scared to play young players has been a theme throughout the Green Utica era. Honestly, in 2015 the origination should have a talk with him to force him to play young players more, they didn't and he kept going playing vets over prospects. It's hilarious to watch Trent Cull in Utica actually play young players in key positions instead of benching them whenever the 3rd period roles around. Utica's 2 wins so far this season have come from Goldobin and Subban playing in the last minute of the game. And surprise surprise THE COMETS WON.

I'm glad Green is finally gone out of Utica now prospects in Utica actually have an opportunity to flourish.



Travis Green playing prospects have been an issue since he got his hands on his AHL grinders. What makes you guys think that he will change? He got his job based on the fact he over relied on vets, of course he's going to favor vets over prospects. Travis Green being a good "development coach" is just as big of a myth as Willie being a "good with young players". The reality is they aren't. And they will continue not to be, because that's all they know how to do, rely on vets.

 

[Melvin]

****ing up those two drafts is what will cost us any chance at a cup for a decade at least.

It is a hilarious tragedy that despite his disciples pointing to his drafting as a strength, you could honestly keep ALL THE OTHER THINGS HE HAS DONE exactly the same, and, simply by replacing those two draft picks, significantly alter our situation right now.

Leave everything else exactly the same. The terrible signings of Eriksson and Gagner. The terrible trades of McCann for Gudbranson and Forsling for Clendening. All the bleeding of lower draft picks. Leave it all the same, but give us Ehlers or Nylander and give us Tkachuk or Keller. Boom, we are in about twice as good of shape right now.

But drafting is his strength.

 

[vancityluongo]

I would probably trade all of Benning's picks 2014-2016 for Nylander+Tkachuk.

Jake + Demko + Boeser + Lockwood + Gaudette + Juolevi essentially. Yea i would do that easily.

 

[ProstheticConscience]

Also, I liked Gudbranson decking Tkachuk tonight, and I hated that Hank got decked in front of the Flames' net, and both dmen didn't even come down to the crease.

In the 3rd. It happened. Was honestly really embarrassed. This team is such a failure on so many levels right now.

 

[Pip]

I agree but think you underweight the Virtanen whiff. Taking Virtanen over Nylander/Ehlers has ****ed us so badly that the rest of the draft almost doesn't matter. And yes, he likely was not big on Forsling/McCann which is why he traded them (and even before he traded them, we heard from Paterson that he was lowest on McCann of all the 2014 picks.)

Even if we still had McCann and Forsling, wouldn't you trade all three of Virtanen+McCann+Forsling for Nylander? I mean honestly. That might go down as one of the biggest draft blunders in our history, at the time where we could least afford to make such a critical error.

I would probably trade all of Benning's picks 2014-2016 for Nylander+Tkachuk.

Oh I totally agree. The Virtanen pick alone should be a firable offense imo. It’s just been beaten to death so I decided to go a different direction with that post.

 

[Yggdrasil]

Jake + Demko + Boeser + Lockwood + Gaudette + Juolevi essentially. Yea i would do that easily.

no to boeser because he still had 2x 1st rounders. so easily can just NOT draft jake and NOT draft juolevi.

my god.

Tkachuk Nylander Boeser
??? Horvat ???
??? Gaudette Lockwood
??? Sutter ???

eriksson signing would have not happened either...same with gagner.

those lines in 2018-19 after sedins are done.

makes me wonder who we drafted instead of pettersen, we'd be drafting a winger for sure with horvat.

then another draft in the 2018...WOW..

we'd be serious playoff contenders by 2019-00....

 

[sting101]

Badly missed Ryan Miller tonight. Defense looks very suspect without Edler and Tanev healthy. Too many gamblers. Smith was brilliant and Marky was bad. Eriksson hurt is just icing on the cake of that 6million shit sandwich.

Report Card:
A
no one
B
Brock Boeser - Nice goal, won a couple faceoffs, jousted with Tkachuk. Made a few mistakes and miss timed a couple PP plays but was strong all game and battled to the end

Markus Granlund - Should have had a couple assists. Looked like our best forward for 2 periods.

C+
Michael Del Zotto - Moved things forward and skated miles. Unlucky to be -2

Brandon Sutter - Wasn't air tight but had jump and quite a few shots.

Sven Baertschi - Best game to date, but needs to step up more. Nice backhand pass to Boeser. Horvat was holding those 2 back tonight.

Sam Gagner - Had some spark to his play, was trying to create things

C
Chris Tanev - reduced role in 3rd needing offense but was still Ok. Screened Markstrom on Hamilton goal.

Derrick Pouliot - interesting player...looks awkward at times and super slick at others. Just got the opportunity of a lifetime hope he captures it. Nice to get an apple in 1st game.

Erik Gudbranson - Had a couple miscues but was strong at boxing guys out and loved what he did to Tkachuk who initiated the whole sequence. Little ice time was reflected in need for goals see Tanev.

Bo Horvat - Another pedestrian 3rd liner type game. This team needs way better. Notorious slow starter so far.

Derek Dorsett - Goal and tonnes of hustle and Jamb, just no talent. Dead end to a lot of plays and terrible awareness on the Hamonic goal.

Troy Stecher - Is struggling to have an impact. Moved puck quickly. Getting better.

Alex Burmistrov - Limited abilities but played a pretty solid game....nice set up on goal and was decent through neutral zone and playmaking.

Ben Hutton - Struggling with turnovers badly but skated miles again and was shooting pucks and trying to make something happen. Erratic player to date. Just missed Granlund feed.

D
Henrik, Daniel and Vanek - Not a bad effort but for the opportunities presented just a terrible terrible inept performance. Roughly 8 minutes on the PP and 16 minutes of ice to produce 4 shots and 7 attemps of 57 total between twins and Vanek ?? Yikes

Jacob Markstrom - Terrible

 

[Get North]

Ugh I know i said I wouldnt but, I dont think he has anything personal against boeser, your making mountains of molehills again, but I do think he feels his veterans give him the best chance to win over boeser and I disagree with that.

And your right he trusts him so much he was removed from the top PP unit late in the game after it went 0-7.

We will see how things go in the future.

Well I disagree with what you think, and I don't think you got much to prove it.

Yeah, he changed something with the PP after it went 0-7. I can't say I disagree with that idea.

 

[Melvin]

no to boeser because he still had 2x 1st rounders. so easily can just NOT draft jake and NOT draft juolevi.

my god.

Tkachuk Nylander Boeser
??? Horvat ???
??? Gaudette Lockwood

eriksson signing would have not happened either...same with gagner.

those lines in 2018-19 after sedins are done.

makes me wonder who we drafted instead of pettersen, we'd be drafting a winger for sure with horvat.

then another draft in the 2018...WOW..

we'd be serious playoff contenders by 2019-00....

As I said, even if you leave everything else the same (although I agree things would have played out differently in reality) :

Tkachuk-Nylander-Boeser
Baertschi-Horvat-Gagner
Sedin-Sedin-Vanek
Eriksson-Sutter-Granlund

That would *still* be 10x more interesting to watch this season, even with all his other blunders still in place, simply by making two different choices.

 

[MS]

Hopefully this mess is what finally gets Benning fired and allows the franchise to start moving forward. What a terrible product ... you really have to wonder how bad attendance is going to get once we're out of contention.

- Sedins just awful tonight. Maybe the lowest point of their careers. Just atrocious on the PP, took 3 penalties, complete liabilities. Sad to watch.

- forwards who didn't suck tonight : Boeser, Burmistrov, Granlund.

- Pouliot had a very vanilla first game, didn't do a lot good or bad. Looked like he was trying not to screw up defensively and just getting rid of the puck. Got better as night went along.

- Gudbranson is bad at hockey but I did like it when he stupidly crosschecked Tkachuk in the face. Love that his icetime was cut way back ... now cut it to zero and put in Biega instead who is a better player.

- Markstrom stunk tonight. But bad games happen and he'd been excellent to start the season. The negativity is a bit over the top.

 

[timw33]

Would be nice if the wheels totally fall off before Christmas so we don't have to even table the idea in the heads of management that a) we shouldn't be sellers at the deadline and b) that we could possibly make the playoffs.

 

[Melvin]

Also, can we please get a graphic for "# of days with Chris Tanev leading the team in scoring?"

 

[Rick Rocket]

holy crap Markstrom laid an egg...

 

[thepoeticgoblin]

Well. This season is going to suck. We are putrid offensively and the new “style” we play isn’t suited for our personnel at all.

REVIEW
Marky had a bad game. His first of the season, but I notice that the vultures are already circling - how tiring. Get Nilsson in for a couple to allow Marky to reset. He is playing as the starter for the first time so growing pains are to be expected.

Horvat’s line has been ‘meh’ all season, even if Boeser got a beauty today. I’m hoping that picks up as Bowie gets going.

Sedins are in decline, and it hurts. Vanek isn’t the type of player a cellar dweller/rebuilder needs.

Gagner and Burmistrov have yet to make an impression.

The shut down line has been OK.

Tanev is too good for this team. Del Zotto has as many goals on Marky as our team leading scorer has in the right net, but he’s been fine. Guddy should not be resigned. Stech going through a sophomore slump. Hutton still struggling. Pouliot will be given time but wasn’t exactly stellar.

It’s going to be a long year, but we knew that. I just hope our young guys make the team their own, they definitely haven’t yet at this point.

 

[Rick Rocket]

Honestly on a positive note it seems its gonna be a terrible season to watch, yet just maybe we finish with a lottery pick.

 

[Seatoo]

Badly missed Ryan Miller tonight.

Not sure if serious

 

[WTG]

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