Post-Game Talk: Game 4: Canucks 2 Cowgary 5 | That was...sub-optimal.

I in the Eye

Drop a ball it falls
Dec 14, 2002
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Does anyone else feel like we are finally heading into the build up before the final scene? The part where Benning says, "it puts the lotion in the basket", before the doorbell rings?

I think they are going to blame the attendance on "Vancouver fans won't tolerate a rebuild" ... They are not going to know why attendance is low - and their solution to this imaginary problem will be the equivalent of getting Prust to solve the imaginary playoff problem of Ferland. It's bound to be amazing. Watching this regime desperately and fumbly trying to [MOD] is going to be bold, bright, and blindingly beautiful... I'm glad I kept my solar eclipse glasses. With the naked eye, seeing Benning dancing around to new wave music while wearing [MOD] over his face as a mask, would be a bit too much.
 
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WTG

December 5th
Jan 11, 2015
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41 even strength shot attempts!!! WE DID IT! WE PASSED 40!

Only took a bad possession team to do it.
 

TruGr1t

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Jun 26, 2003
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I'm legitimately intrigued about just how bad this team has to be before someone gets fired. Judging by what's happened since training camp, I wouldn't be surprised if we're worse than last year.
 

terrible dee

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Oct 1, 2017
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It's not "sitting for no reason". It's called a plan and it doesn't seem usual, but Green clearly has confidence in Boeser and is giving him a chance. If he didn't have confidence or didn't want to give him a chance, then Boeser would barely play. I don't know why Green sat him aside from the fact that he has a plan for Boeser, but I'll just finish this by saying Green clearly trusts Boeser and will give him minutes to succeed, which should be good enough to please you. The Virtanen part is proof that Green has a plan for Virtanen and Boeser. My post connects the dots if you cannot see it. Green has different plans for different types of prospects, that's my point. It's not making up points, it's called looking at the bigger picture to understand what Green is doing here which you fail to recognize.


Okay, well then I agree.

What's "THE PLAN"?
 

turkulad

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Sep 27, 2011
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It's so weird to see people talk on and on about Nylander, Tkachuk and Ehlers in the line-ups. What-if this, what-if that, they're not here, so why bother? It's like when the doctor tells you not to scratch it unless you want it to get worse, and then you proceed to scratch it all the bloody time instead of letting it heal. Some of you are plain masochists.
 

terrible dee

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Oct 1, 2017
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Because the Sedins don't ****ing matter anymore.

Green's primary responsibility, I think everyone would agree, is to help grow and develop the next Canucks core. That means Bo Horvat. That means Brock Boeser, hopefully.

His message to Bo is essentially: "Look, you signed your first big contract. Now you have a big role to fill. You are an absolutely critical part of this team going forward, and we need you to be that leader. We need and expect more from you."

Whether or not not that message is fair or not is one thing, but asking why he is not giving the same message to Thomas [MOD[ Vanek, a guy who hopefully won't be here come March, are you serious?

Tom Vanek is irrelevant. So is Eriksson and Gagner. Hell, so are the Sedins. He felt he needed to send a message to Horvat, because Horvat actually ****ing matters. That is what he is doing. Boeser played a ton tonight; I don't know why anyone would be complaining about Boeser's deployment. Who else is there? Virtanen, a guy who scored 7 goals in 55 AHL games last year, and we are hopping mad that he doesn't get first-line ice time to start this season. Come on people for real.

So, let me get this straight......"He who DOES NOT MATTER will play! 5 on 5, PP, everywhere, I like to make sure guys who don't matter on the ice as much as possible"

"He who DOES MATTER? Get thee to the press box! Lean over so I can staple gun your [MOD] to the bench, IF YOU MATTER to my team, GET OFF THE ICE! That's what the irrelevant guys are for!"

That has to be a quote from Jack Adams himself

Wow, it's so simple how could I have missed it.....but then genius is too often misunderstood...
 

terrible dee

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Oct 1, 2017
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It's so weird to see people talk on and on about Nylander, Tkachuk and Ehlers in the line-ups. What-if this, what-if that, they're not here, so why bother? It's like when the doctor tells you not to scratch it unless you want it to get worse, and then you proceed to scratch it all the bloody time instead of letting it heal. Some of you are plain masochists.

Well....we got this little hockey discussion board thing happening here, it occasionally necessitates discussion,

we trying to figure out a way to do this without discussion, Inspired by coach Green and hid "PLay who doesn't matter" master plan, we to will figure out the elusive discussion less discussion board

Sit tight! Any day now....
 

Jack Tripper

Vey Falls Down
Dec 15, 2009
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Also, I liked Gudbranson decking Tkachuk tonight, and I hated that Hank got decked in front of the Flames' net, and both dmen didn't even come down to the crease.

In the 3rd. It happened. Was honestly really embarrassed. This team is such a failure on so many levels right now.

glad im not the only one that noticed that and thought it was a massive red flag

not sure who the d pair were on the ice, but henrik was getting mugged in front of the net by multiple flames and it was like there was absolutely no interest in sticking up for him - in game 4

at first i thought it's just the new nhl and those displays of team toughness are no longer a thing, but i doubt there's many teams in the league that would allow that to happen to their captain with the game basically out of reach
 
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terrible dee

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Oct 1, 2017
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So you believe everything that Green says to the media and he's really going to bench the Sedins. Like I said, that's a quick way to put a lot of heat on yourself from the players, from the Sedins, and from the media. No coach is doing that, I'm not going to reply back to a gullible person.

Meh, doesn't matter what I think. The point is that Green clearly trusts Boeser and you think he has something against Boeser. You're acting irrationally.

Please explain how you justify two unexplained benchings to our teams most dynamic player?

What Boesser did tonight was what he does, he scores. Period

Our coach our best scorer out of the lineup, because......and no reason was given to justify such an extream action, he DID NOT WANT OUR BEST SCORER IN OUR FIRST TWO GAMES

Please, I'm BEGGING YOU to justify that, I envision myself laughing for week

You guys are getting caught with you pants down right and left, trying to defend the undefendable

That in it's self-speaks volumes, No fan of the team wants our best scorer sat for NO REASON, the guy they paid to see denied to the season's ticket base for NO REASON

I heard a guy on the radio after the Ottawa game, season ticket holder for 18 years, he was as angry as I had ever heard a caller, and he made it quite clear that if Brock wasn;t in the ine-up tonight, he would withdraw his financial support from the team.

Anyway, it's no mystery what it was, hockey has been like this for years, you get a Dallas Eakins type rookie coach who is desperate to have his players fear him, he makes some pre-emptive power moves early on to let te player know who's [MOD].

It' happened in minor levels where I player, it happens in the high level where the true talents play

And the real loser are the paying customers

I am not considering canceling my subscription, I enjoy being front row center for the gong-show, but I tell you this, keep this B.S up and the only ones in the arena will be the teams and me

That's not going to look good, even if I try and do some lame "Pain myself green, hey 2011 retro night!

Maybe 'll just go naked, and have a stuffed "Jerome the nome who lives under the dome" in my other seat since nobody wants my other seat for free anymore..
 
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MarkusNaslund19

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Dec 28, 2005
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The last 3 games have been pretty tough to watch.

- The Sedins with Vanek works occasionally when they are able to set up. When they figure each other out they will be a little bit better because Vanek is one of the few players in the league with the IQ to play exactly their style, without simply being a puck retriever.

However, they are all old, slow, and cannot win many physical battles. As such, the are left to over rely on quick passing which becomes predictable.

I will say, on the PP they did a good job of setting up Brock 2 or 3 times for chances that might be goals once Brock is a bit more comfortable in the NHL (he bobbled one of them, and wasn't quite in the right position for the other).

- Horvat-Baertschi-Boeser

Not a good night for this line. Pretty much tend to create whatever Horvat can do on 1 on 2's whenever he gets up a head of steam. Baertschi's tricks aren't working right now. He's working hard, but he's just gotta find a way to be better and more effective. Boeser is a goal scorer, but he's not some franchise player who can come in and play effectively on the top line right away. He loses a fair few battles due to his size.
That said, Boeser's hockey sense is off the charts. He knows where to go, makes amazing short passes, and forechecks well because he is good at theory of mind. And that shot.

Sutter-Granlund-Dorsett

It's sad when Dorsett has been one of the best Canucks this year. But it's clear that the neck thing was bugging him for the last two years and he really is an effective 4th liner. Sutter is obviously overpaid, but fairly effective at his role too. That said, not a great night for him.

Granlund. I maintain, he is a bright spot. If you don't understand how good Granlund is, you probably either didn't play yourself or haven't watched for long enough. He has great hockey sense. Forces turnovers based on positioning and attacking at the right times. He's small and not entirely fast, so he can't move mountains on his own. But if he is ever placed with really good players, watch him take off. he has a habit of being the best part of any line he is on.

Burmistrov-Gagner-Eriksson

I like what I have seen from Burmistrov both within the season and in the pre-season. He's sneaky and good at stealing the puck. That little fake outside and then lean in that broke Hamilton's stick on the Dorsett goal was clever and bold. I think he's a good pick up.

Gagner: I hope he will figure it out. We're using him stupidly, he should be playing with Dorsett and Sutter in a 4th line role like he did in Columbus. Further, him on the point is absolutely asinine. He should be playing as the triangle option in front of the net, again, like he did in Columbus. And you can't fault his effort. But he is just so irrelevant. It really doesn't matter what he wants, bigger, faster opponents can easily strip him and render him useless.

Eriksson. He's intelligent and underrated in a way. There's a reason that his corsi tends to be pretty good. That said, for 6 mil? Just invisible and sad. Does anyone really think the outcome of our team is even tangentially related to his health?

Defense:

Pouliot: I saw some things that I liked. He made a nice move on Brodie when nobody was doing anything. Of course there was nobody with him and so it developed into nothing. But for his first game, and knowing that his confidence is stripped entirely, I was reasonably happy. This is a longterm plan. Not a short term one.

Stecher: Not sure what's wrong with the kid. He's playing kind of stupid. He may be struggling to adapt to the first league where he's not good enough to take over games with his feet, brain, and intellect. So he's trying to do too much because we are terrible and he isn't used to playing for bad teams.

Hutton: I like some of the aggression I see out of him offensively, but man he makes some dumb reads in the defensive zone. One of their goals came off a puck that was dumped into the corner and he was the closest player to it and didn't even lean in the direction of going for it. His partner had to chase it and Hutton was doing nothing on the play.

Tanev: Not a great game for him either. But one has to realize that NHL players tend to be champions at many levels that they play at. It does weird things to players psychologically to play for a bad team. For a guy who is elite defensively, and elite at taking the puck from tight spaces and then dishing it to more skilled players, to have to do it all on his own. It just doesn't work. Those aren't his instincts and it isn't his skill set.

Del Zotto: Mostly impressed so far. He won't turn water into wine but, depending on his partner, has shown he can be a semi-competent top 4 at 3 million per. Not bad.

Gudbranson: Fairly good game for him today. Shows a little physical assertiveness, which we lack in all other areas. That said, obviously Benning knows he made a mistake. He tried to trade him for a more expensive Jason Demers in the off season.

Goalie:

Markstrom:
Consistency man, figure it out. It' s not good enough to make 3 5-alarm saves and allow 2 floaters. It screws with your team's head. When a team starts fearing what will happen if they allow weak shots, it's all over.

---

God I hope this season gets more interesting. 78 more games of this is going to be tough to take.
 

ItalianCanuck1

Italian Canuck
Mar 8, 2016
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Italy
Nothing seems to be different from last year.

The only player that I save is Boeser. And probably he will be scratched or send back to Utica.

You can really see the difference between he and Virtanen and the rest of the team. They try always to create something, they fight along the boards, they try to shoot the puck and play a fast game.

The rest of the offense sleeps.

The Sedins line is the only one that is able to keep the puck in the offensive zone, but they are in trouble to reach the zone because they are the slowest line of the team.

Markstrom had a bad game, but it's the least of my concerns. It happen and he's been good.

The defense is full of players that don't excell in neither zones.

I start to ask myself what's the role in this team of Hutton and Stetcher for example.

I try always to not overreact but the last three games were really disappointing and I haven't seen any improvement.
 

orcatown

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Didn't watch the whole game (probably the best) but few things are becoming evident

Markstrom is still iffy as a starter. Clearly awful in this game

Sedins are neither good or entertaining. Only hopeful note here is that they are so bad that even Benning can see it. So maybe he won't renew their contract - although that is no certainty. In some magical and probably non-existent world, we use moving out the Sedins cap hits to sign local guys Turris and Kane. But then again Benning might think loyalty comes first and he re-ups the Sedins with a significant raise.

Baertschi is getting smothered like he use to get and providing little help to Horvat.

Gagner is of little use and is joining Eriksson as a salary cap killer. But give Gagner credit - he turned one good season into life time security. You wonder if his Dad's past association with the team had any effect in getting this sweet heart contract.

Granlund is playing well but is a thin reed to pin your game on. He could be quite helpful in a support role on a lower line but is nothing like a player that carry a team.

Virtanen should not be sat before Gagner if we are going to just base things on merit.

Del Zotto is a good player. See him being a 30 minute player before too long.

Hutton still can't read the play or react well enough in the d-zone. Goes forward well but poor back pivot hurts defense in neutral zone and in his end.

Team appears to be at least two years away from being anything like a contender with even decent management (which is surly not what we have) . Every step taken should be about the future. Of course, this has been the same for the last 4 or 5 years but mostly avoided. If it had, the Sedins would have been moved a couple of years ago. Now we are left we what we are left with.
 

Orca Smash

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Feb 9, 2012
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Well I disagree with what you think, and I don't think you got much to prove it.

Yeah, he changed something with the PP after it went 0-7. I can't say I disagree with that idea.

I dont know what either of us can prove, its differing opinions. And yeah he made one change, removing the guy you say he trusts.
 
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tantalum

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So no more damages was done once I lost my signal.

We are going to find out quite quickly which vets Green was pushing to get this offseason as they will get minutes when they should be scratched.

I realize Horvat didn't have a great game but you don't bench the guy. He better have been hurt but I have my doubts. While people were excited about the summer Benning had for some reason, to me it spoke of the same old same old. Veteran laden, high payroll team that is terrible. The blueline is as bad if not worse. The offense is as bad if not worse. The coaching is as bad. They are trying to be playoff competitive but for the third straight year they are a bottom feeder.

I know it's been repeated over and over again but the kicker is they would be if they didn't deal youth and picks and made the consensus picks early. It would have been a have your cake and eat it too. The couple year re-tool was available to this management team. The tear it down rebuild was available to this management team. Both would have produced a better team now and in the future while not being any worse the previous couple years. It's straight up incompetence from coaching on up to ownership.

And again I have a hard time truly laying it on ownership beyond removing Gillis and putting Linden in charge. Whatever directive they may or may not have was entirely achievable. This group just dropped every pass thrown to them.

I have a feeling I'm a Markstrom "vulture". Far from it. He had a bad game doing things he's done since he was a teenager. He's still the #1 and should be played like it. He has legitimately earned that opportunity and you need to know if he can do it.
 
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Nick Lang

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May 14, 2015
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41 even strength shot attempts!!! WE DID IT! WE PASSED 40!

Only took a bad possession team to do it.

Markstrom sucked. Remember that little exchange we had? I sure hope Nilsson gets the nod. Like I said I think he takes over number one in short order.
 

Ozone

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Jan 19, 2013
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'Nuff said..
 

MikeK

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Nov 10, 2008
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This team is bad. Really bad. What did those idiots in management think was going to happen with The twins yet another year older? We should be giving the young kids more playing time rather than trying to fool everyone into thinking this is a competitive team. I didn't think it was possible but I think this season is going to be even harder to sit through than last season. the only positive I can see coming out of all this is we might actually start to see changes in management.
 

Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
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So, let me get this straight......"He who DOES NOT MATTER will play! 5 on 5, PP, everywhere, I like to make sure guys who don't matter on the ice as much as possible"

Someone has to play. Boeser got plenty of PP time so I am not sure what you are complaining about. Should we sit everyone over 25 and roll with 5 forwards? Honestly. The terrible roster is Benning's fault, not Green's. Green plays who he has.

"He who DOES MATTER? Get thee to the press box! Lean over so I can staple gun your [MOD] to the bench, IF YOU MATTER to my team, GET OFF THE ICE! That's what the irrelevant guys are for!"

Virtanen doesn't matter. He is Skille 2.0. The fact that he is in the press box is irrelevant. He should be in the AHL, but again that is on Benning. That people are frothing at the mouth over Virtanen not playing after the year he had last year is hysterical. And I mean the literal definition of that word.

That has to be a quote from Jack Adams himself

Wow, it's so simple how could I have missed it.....but then genius is too often misunderstood...

You missed it because you're pissed off about this travesty of an NHL team and non-sensical roster that our idiot GM bumbled together. Your anger is reasonable, its target is misplaced.

Green has exactly one rookie on his team. It was dumb that he sat for two games but he is playing now. He has 3 players under 25 who are worth a damn, and they are all playing. There is nothing to complain about.
 

StreetHawk

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Sep 30, 2017
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glad im not the only one that noticed that and thought it was a massive red flag

not sure who the d pair were on the ice, but henrik was getting mugged in front of the net by multiple flames and it was like there was absolutely no interest in sticking up for him - in game 4

at first i thought it's just the new nhl and those displays of team toughness are no longer a thing, but i doubt there's many teams in the league that would allow that to happen to their captain with the game basically out of reach

Gudbranson would be the only one who would do anything. Stecher, Hutton, Pouliot, MDZ, Tanev, not in their nature to mix it up.

At some point, the twins need to look out for themselves and push back. If they create a bit of a scrum, other teammates will rush in. Flip the script, did a Flame rush into Gudbranson after he smacked Tkachuk in the face? No....

The twins were completely responsible for the SHG against. Henrik tried to stick handle without moving his feet and Gio knocked the puck off his stick and proceeded to out battle Hank and Dan for the puck where it couldn't be passed to Gagner cleanly. Calgary gets a 3 on 1 and they bury. Post game, I hear Dan say the PP struggled due to blocked shots and not getting pucks through the passing lanes. No mention of him or Hank taking ownership of the shorty.
 

tantalum

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This what I know. The strongest camps came from a Boeser, Virtanen and Granlund. Of those three, one was scratched for the first two games, one can't get more than 8 minutes and was scratched in game 4. The third has received time though I would suggest if one is pointing towards Granlund as some shining beacon then the reason is the team is crap.

And it is.

That isn't to say Virtanen is a difference maker. He's not but don't say you are playing kids and then scratch those kids in favour of inferior vets. Don't piss on me and tell me it's raining.

I'm curious to see what they'll do. I fully expect they will play the can't accept a rebuild card. Problem is they've done such a bad job there really is no other option. They've forced themselves into a complete rebuild with no assets to move. This is going to be long and ugly even with a good GM at the helm.
 

Melvin

21/12/05
Sep 29, 2017
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Montreal, QC
This what I know. The strongest camps came from a Boeser, Virtanen and Granlund. Of those three, one was scratched for the first two games, one can't get more than 8 minutes and was scratched in game 4. The third has received time though I would suggest if one is pointing towards Granlund as some shining beacon then the reason is the team is crap.

It is almost like pre-season is meaningless and has little bearing on anything, like I said two weeks ago and got shouted down.
 

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