Value of: Galchenyuk (Blowout Edition)

[HoweHullOrr]

Victor Rask for Galchenyuk

If I were a Canes fan, I'd be inclined to just stick with Rask.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

While I rate galch a lot higher than most people do, he isn't worth marner/nylander right now.

JVR + is a fair deal.

JVR with an extension versus JVR without an extension = BIG difference. Unfortunately, sign and trade deals don't happen very often.

 

[HoweHullOrr]

There have been multiple instances of pending UFAs negotiating contracts with the team they are going to be traded to. Happened with Frederik Andersen immediately after he got traded to Toronto. TB also tried to negotiate an extension with Shattenkirk in a Shattenkirk-Drouin trade.

If you don't know what you are talking about, then play it safe and don't comment. Or else you end up looking like a typical no-life troll.

You'll probably have to list more than one example to make your point seem more credible.

Given JVRs age, would it not be possible or more likely (even) that he and his agent will want to see what free agency looks like?

 

[A Loyal Dog]

I would like to add that Therrien and Julien are such amazing detectors of talent. I trust them 100% with their dealings with Galchenyuk. I mean, last season Therrien placed Andrighetto on waivers, and months later, Julien had him traded for an all-time great in Andreas Martinsen. So many red flags with Andrighetto - he couldn't even crack the 4th line on a depleted offense like the Habs. Just as many with Galchenyuk.

Please take him away from us! We want grinders!!! We want LEADERS! Tough guys!

Roussel for Galchenyuk!

 

[The Macho King]

Galchenyuk keeps getting put on the fourth line - his value around the league is not going to be as high as people predict.

 

[Dr Amazing204]

Trade him to the jets for a high 5 now that's a deal

 

[lomiller1]

JVR with an extension versus JVR without an extension = BIG difference. Unfortunately, sign and trade deals don't happen very often.

There is no incentive to do them from the player side in the NHL. If they are not going to stay with their current team why would they sign and be forced to go to one team instead of negotiating with many as a UFA.

People are also overestimating trade value of UFA contracts. When a player signs as a UFA it essentially means no other team was willing to pay them that much, so why would they be willing to pay them AND give up assets? Unless they outplay their contracts or had taken a home town discount players signed to UFA contracts have very little trade value

Overall JVR would be worth at most a late first as a rental, and that’s not going to be the feature piece in a Galchenyuk trade. The one that makes the most to me is Duchene as it addresses immediate issues for both teams. I’m honestly not sure who adds. Duchene is the better player but is also older and has less control/term. It may be worth it to both sides to do a straight up trade and get rid of their respective controversies.

 

[Starat327]

There is no incentive to do them from the player side in the NHL. If they are not going to stay with their current team why would they sign and be forced to go to one team instead of negotiating with many as a UFA.

People are also overestimating trade value of UFA contracts. When a player signs as a UFA it essentially means no other team was willing to pay them that much, so why would they be willing to pay them AND give up assets? Unless they outplay their contracts or had taken a home town discount players signed to UFA contracts have very little trade value

Overall JVR would be worth at most a late first as a rental, and that’s not going to be the feature piece in a Galchenyuk trade. The one that makes the most to me is Duchene as it addresses immediate issues for both teams. I’m honestly not sure who adds. Duchene is the better player but is also older and has less control/term. It may be worth it to both sides to do a straight up trade and get rid of their respective controversies.

This is a formal logical fallacy. Some people take less money to play in a city they want, or a situation that suits them best. There have been numbers examples of players taking less money and or term to play in a location of their choosing. Shattenkirk is a decent example, albeit not perfect. Campbell likely would have gotten more on his contract after leaving FLA, but wanted to go back to Chicago. Sharp as well. Thornton reportedly turned down multi-year deals from some teams to stay in San Jose.

 

[AmeriHab]

Morin? Philly is stacked on the left D and Morin was a bergevin target

 

[Starat327]

Morin? Philly is stacked on the left D and Morin was a bergevin target

We arent quite as stacked as people seem to think - Provorov, Sanheim (also plays right), and Morin - outside of MacDonald (who is currently playing right, dont ask).

Montreal probably would ask for an add, which is reasonable i suppose. Is Galchenyuk better as a LW or RW?

 

[Coldplay619]

Lucas Johansen+ for Galchenyuk at trade deadline.

Reunite him with Eller.

 

[lomiller1]

This is a formal logical fallacy

Ok, I’ll bite, what formal fallacy is it?
For example this is a strawman because it neglects the more detailed aspects of the argument being presented.

Some people take less money to play in a city they want, or a situation that suits them best. There have been numbers examples of players taking less money and or term to play in a location of their choosing.

If he wanted to play in Toronto and took a hometown discount to stay there, why would he accept an immediate trade? If he wanted to play in the city he’s being traded to, he could do so by signing there as a UFA and still get to listen to other offers?
While it’s certainly possible the player may be willing to take a discount to play in a preferred city the idea that this can be translated into trade value for pending UFA’s is at best unrealistic.

 

[Starat327]

Ok, I’ll bite, what formal fallacy is it?
For example this is a strawman because it neglects the more detailed aspects of the argument being presented.


If he wanted to play in Toronto and took a hometown discount to stay there, why would he accept an immediate trade? If he wanted to play in the city he’s being traded to, he could do so by signing there as a UFA and still get to listen to other offers?
While it’s certainly possible the player may be willing to take a discount to play in a preferred city the idea that this can be translated into trade value for pending UFA’s is at best unrealistic.

I wasnt talking about your entire argument, Just the portion i bolded that a UFA only signs somewhere because no one else was willing to sign him at that price.

That logic assumes that other factors (such as living conditions, chance to win a cup, etc) do not weigh into a decision. Lots of players have signed cheap(er) contracts with the Hawks over the last few years as they were viewed as favorites to win, that undoubtedly had 'better' offers than what the Hawks gave them.

 

[lomiller1]

I wasnt talking about your entire argument, Just the portion i bolded that a UFA only signs somewhere because no one else was willing to sign him at that price.

The rest to the post, the part you ignored, covers why things like hometown discounts don’t alter the basic principle that newly signed UFA’s have no significant trade value. Ignoring this and only addressing the simple version is makes it a Strawman…

 

[Starat327]

The rest to the post, the part you ignored, covers why things like hometown discounts don’t alter the basic principle that newly signed UFA’s have no significant trade value. Ignoring this and only addressing the simple version is makes it a Strawman…

Its hardly strawman. The premise of your post is mostly true, and I never debated that. I suppose you could argue that a UFA sign and then trade to Pittsburgh might make sense under the premise that Pittsburgh has to clear cap space before they make the trade and doesnt want to lose trading leverage with other teams while they do so, thus destroying the entire premise, but i wont make that argument because a)i have no issue with the claim that UFA sign and trades in the NHL dont make sense, and b) it involves way too many details and specifics that it isnt worth going down that rabbithole.

But your assumption that people only sign where they are paid the most is just blatantly false, which is all i was pointing out to begin with. I'll let you debate which fallacy is what on your own.

 

[Todd1a]

Galchenyuk keeps getting put on the fourth line - his value around the league is not going to be as high as people predict.

He needs to play center with drouin as his winger

 

[AmeriHab]

We arent quite as stacked as people seem to think - Provorov, Sanheim (also plays right), and Morin - outside of MacDonald (who is currently playing right, dont ask).

Montreal probably would ask for an add, which is reasonable i suppose. Is Galchenyuk better as a LW or RW?

I believe he’s always lined up on the left if not at center

 

[blankall]

There have been multiple instances of pending UFAs negotiating contracts with the team they are going to be traded to. Happened with Frederik Andersen immediately after he got traded to Toronto. TB also tried to negotiate an extension with Shattenkirk in a Shattenkirk-Drouin trade.

If you don't know what you are talking about, then play it safe and don't comment. Or else you end up looking like a typical no-life troll.

Both downright horrible examples.

Anderson signed an extension with the Leafs after he was traded. That's common for goalies, who have a much higher risk of losing their jobs.

Shattenkirk was traded after the Blues could not come to terms with him. He then signed with the Rangers in the off-season. The likely reason being he lives in the Hamptons and wanted to be close to their. This is what might happen with JVR actually. He could refuse to sign, forcing a deadline deal. JVR will either want to stay in Toronto and re-sign, or refuse to re-sign and look to his the open market. There's no way he'll agree to re-sign if he doesn't want to stay with Toronto. Trading him afterwards would be a huge breach of trust. Yes there was talk of a Shattenkirk extension in Tampa, but once again, that was after he was traded and only if Shattenkirk agreed to it. You can't just ship a player off to another city and assume he'll sign an extension. Does JVR have some connection to Montreal that going to want to make him stay on a struggling team and earn less money than he'd get on the open market?

Please provide examples of players who signed extensions with a club and were traded within a few months.

 

[Starat327]

I believe he’s always lined up on the left if not at center

Left would make it more ideal for us, since our RW is pretty stacked. Even then LW isnt as dire a need as it was 6 months ago, but RW makes it an immediate no go (Voracek, Simmonds, Konecny are all natural RW, in addition to people like Weise)

 

[McDrai]

Galchenyuk+ for Duchene makes too much sense. Avs Reunite Yak and Galchenyuk and Habs pick up their 1C

 

[JoemAvs]

Galchenyuk+ for Duchene makes too much sense. Avs Reunite Yak and Galchenyuk and Habs pick up their 1C

For everyone but the Colorado Avalanche...

Main reason for trading Duchene was always to fix our defense.

Galchenyuk makes us worse in that department.

So unless you offer a 1st (to help adress it via the draft) + say Mete (or atleast Poehling) as well, it really does not make much sense for the Avs

 

[blankall]

Galchenyuk+ for Duchene makes too much sense. Avs Reunite Yak and Galchenyuk and Habs pick up their 1C

Other than that Montreal has stated they aren't interested. Also, Galchenyuk is playing like crap and Duchene is on fire. My guess is that Colorado is asking for a significant add from Montreal, who've said no. If it was as simple as a Galchenyuk level of value, Duchene would have been moved already. Also Galchenyuk doesn't really make the Avs a better team. They end up with a lesser offensive player, without addressing defence issues.

 

[Curufinwe]

Morin? Philly is stacked on the left D and Morin was a bergevin target

If Morin + pick was the basis for a deal, there would have to be another contract going back to the Habs. One of Read, Raffl, Weise or Lehtera.

 

[Captain97]

For everyone but the Colorado Avalanche...

Main reason for trading Duchene was always to fix our defense.

Galchenyuk makes us worth in that department.

So unless you offer a 1st (to help adress it via the draft) + say Mete (or atleast Poehling) as well, it really does not make much sense for the Avs

So your ask is Galchenyuk+1st+mete, that's more than a little absurd.

 

[4thline]

1st+ from a competitive team to add to their offence for a finite period.

His play + idiotic contract don't justifying a valuation as a core piece.

Inconsistent Top 6 W "extended rental"