Dressing Sheep in Wolves Clothing (Mod Warning page 35)

[chizzler]

Come on now. Speed + physicality has value in every generation, anyone who actually said what you are claiming is lost.

The skill set that has very little value is the slow lumbering guys that some people want the B's to go out and get.

Who are these slow goons you are speaking of? You making shit up? Both sides of the argument are calling for speed. Is it ok to ask players to be more aggressive and have speed, than we saw in the Tampa series? You got to be pretty stupid not to notice the problem. Wtf. I haven’t seen anyone ask for a inforcer or a goon here.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

Who are these slow goons you are speaking of? You making **** up? Both sides of the argument are calling for speed. Is it ok to ask players to be more aggressive and have speed, than we saw in the Tampa series? You got to be pretty stupid not to notice the problem. Wtf. I haven’t seen anyone ask for a inforcer or a goon here.

I haven't seen anyone say there is no place for physicality or that they only want speedy, skilled, soft players either but that doesn't stop the same people from going on and on about it

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Who are these slow goons you are speaking of? You making **** up? Both sides of the argument are calling for speed. Is it ok to ask players to be more aggressive and have speed, than we saw in the Tampa series? You got to be pretty stupid not to notice the problem. Wtf. I haven’t seen anyone ask for a inforcer or a goon here.

I've seen mention in this thread that people would take Matt Martin. And there is at least one person who would take Ryan Reaves...He'd also take him over Conor Sheary lmfao...I'd consider both enforcers. Definitely not goons, because they have shown they can at least play a bit, but definitely still of the enforcer type.

And maybe not in this thread, but I've seen some say they'd want Peluso and Gazdic, back when they were mucking up the ice. Don't act like there hasn't been fans pining for these kinds of players.

 

[Sheppy]

Ryan Reaves wouldn't be playing in a conference final if he couldn't play the game of hockey.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Ryan Reaves wouldn't be playing in a conference final if he couldn't play the game of hockey.

I would take Reaves in the role he is in with Vegas. 13th forward, maybe 14th forward (if they elect to go 7 defenseman) since he's really limited to a 4th line RW role. You would need to have someone who could be an option for the 3rd line as well, or someone on the 4th line that could slide up in a pinch, to insert Reaves in.

 

[Sheppy]

There are plenty of people swooning over Reaves on Vegas because he scored a GWG in the playoffs. He fills a role, but not the type of guy I would target

I don't think people are calling for Reaves "because he scored a GWG"...

 

[sarge88]

I look at the whole “dirty player” issue differently than most, it would appear.

Hockey is entertainment!

I personally don’t care if a guy is dirty as long as he helps the Bruins win.

Every team has (or has had) guys that are dirty players, clean players, tremendous people off the ice, dirt bags off the ice and everything in between. So no fan has the moral upper hand in this debate.

5, 10 or 20 years from now we’re going to find out some on this team are bad people or will do something bad. I learned this lesson at my first real job. A player who I really liked for the Bruins went to college with two older co-workers. One day hockey came up and one looked at the other and said “who was that guy who played for the Bruins that went to school with us”?

The other said “I dont know”.

The first replied, “you know, him....the date rape guy”.

I’ve long since stopped worrying about the relative cleanliness or morality of athletes or how fans of other teams view them or me for cheering for them.

Now there is obviously a line....I’m not going to cheer on wife beaters, child molesters or rapists. But I’m also not going to care if a Tom Wilson type shows up on the team next year and helps them win a cup.

(The value of guys like that is a different debate, but the point remains the same: it’s just sports.)

 

[Fenian24]

There are plenty of people swooning over Reaves on Vegas because he scored a GWG in the playoffs. He fills a role, but not the type of guy I would target

Nice try, Reaves is and has been a solid third or fourth line forward for years who also happens to be a great hitter, big and a great fighter. Not because he scored a GWG in the playoffs but because he is the type of player you look for if you want to add size, toughness and hitting on your fourth line who won't hurt your team against "skilled" teams.

Who would you target for that fourth line spot? Alex Semin, Alex Khokolachev, Tobias Reider?

 

[Fenian24]

Brad Marchand put up 85 points in each of the the last 2 seasons. Tom Wilson, 35 and 19. Massive difference. You can put up with *****ebaggery for 85 points. You don't like it, but 85 points makes Brad elite at his position, so you tolerate it. The tolerance level drops pretty sharply for 35. It might not be "right" but it is what it is. We have a POS in Marchand, why add another one? Especially for 35 points.

First Marchand and Wilson are different kinds of dirty. Wilson will throw some high hits but doesn't do any of the extra stuff that gets Marchand in trouble. Wilson also plays on his teams first line and has contributed to it's success by creating space, turnovers with his physical play and ability to make a play off those turnovers. He also goes to the net and creates screens for Ovie.

I take both, put Wilson out with Bergeron and Marchand and Pastrnak with Krecji, you may get something out of Krecji with him and DeBrusk as his wingers.

It's a pointless argument, Washington realizes how valuable WIlson is to them and I'm sure have no intention of trading him.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

Nice try, Reaves is and has been a solid third or fourth line forward for years who also happens to be a great hitter, big and a great fighter. Not because he scored a GWG in the playoffs but because he is the type of player you look for if you want to add size, toughness and hitting on your fourth line who won't hurt your team against "skilled" teams.

Who would you target for that fourth line spot? Alex Semin, Alex Khokolachev, Tobias Reider?

He has never, ever been anything close to a third liner. He’s averaged 8 minutes a night for his career. He’s a 4th liner/13th forward.


Once again, literally nobody is suggesting the type of player you keep accusing them of wanting.

 

[LSCII]

Ryan Reaves wouldn't be playing in a conference final if he couldn't play the game of hockey.

If he was such an effective hockey player, why didn't he play earlier in the playoffs then? Seems odd that they wouldn't play him in consecutive games until the conference finals if he were so integral to the team, no?

 

[LSCII]

For the people advocating for Reaves (or a Reaves type) what would you pay for that kind of player contract-wise?? How much value do you put on the toughness aspect of the game, for a limited player who will essentially play limited minutes in a limited role?

Not trying to argue it or debate it, just trying to see how much value other folks put on this and where it is compared to folks who don't value it as much.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

Ryan Reaves=Shawn Thornton...

 

[NDiesel]

Nice try, Reaves is and has been a solid third or fourth line forward for years who also happens to be a great hitter, big and a great fighter. Not because he scored a GWG in the playoffs but because he is the type of player you look for if you want to add size, toughness and hitting on your fourth line who won't hurt your team against "skilled" teams.

Who would you target for that fourth line spot? Alex Semin, Alex Khokolachev, Tobias Reider?

Yeah, I would definitely target Alex Semin, you got me.

 

[Pia8988]

I thoroughly enjoy the lack of middle ground here.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Ryan Reaves=Shawn Thornton...

Reaves is a much better hitter than Thornton ever was.

It used to drive me nuts when Thornton would go into the corner to hit a guy and then turn and get him with his butt instead of crushing him with the shoulder.

Thornton probably a better technical fighter, but would give away a lot of size to Reaves. Also, when Reaves fights, he appears to punch to hurt like Lucic did. Thornton always seemed to treat it as just a job, and rarely appeared to get pissed at his opponent.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

First Marchand and Wilson are different kinds of dirty. Wilson will throw some high hits but doesn't do any of the extra stuff that gets Marchand in trouble. Wilson also plays on his teams first line and has contributed to it's success by creating space, turnovers with his physical play and ability to make a play off those turnovers. He also goes to the net and creates screens for Ovie.

I take both, put Wilson out with Bergeron and Marchand and Pastrnak with Krecji, you may get something out of Krecji with him and DeBrusk as his wingers.

It's a pointless argument, Washington realizes how valuable WIlson is to them and I'm sure have no intention of trading him.

I love the Wilson “will throw some high hits” comment. He literally had 3/4 hits that were suspendable in like a 10 game stretch earlier in the playoffs, and finally got 3 games for one.

I do agree that he and Marchand are apples and oranges (63 is a much better hockey player) and that the Caps have no intention of trading Wilson.

 

[Gonzothe7thDman]

Bunch of dummies in here asking for Stan Chistovs and Jeremy Reichs'

 

[Dr Hook]

Bunch of dummies in here asking for Stan Chistovs and Jeremy Reichs'

I think we could probably lure Alex Semin out of retirement

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Nice try, Reaves is and has been a solid third or fourth line forward for years who also happens to be a great hitter, big and a great fighter. Not because he scored a GWG in the playoffs but because he is the type of player you look for if you want to add size, toughness and hitting on your fourth line who won't hurt your team against "skilled" teams.

Who would you target for that fourth line spot? Alex Semin, Alex Khokolachev, Tobias Reider?

f*** why stop at one? Next season, I want the 4th line to be:

Semin -- Koko -- Reider

Just to make your head spin!

 

[NDiesel]

Nice try, Reaves is and has been a solid third or fourth line forward for years who also happens to be a great hitter, big and a great fighter. Not because he scored a GWG in the playoffs but because he is the type of player you look for if you want to add size, toughness and hitting on your fourth line who won't hurt your team against "skilled" teams.

Who would you target for that fourth line spot? Alex Semin, Alex Khokolachev, Tobias Reider?

Just looking at the UFA list only here are guys I would prefer that the Bruins target over Reaves:

Christ Stewart
Roussel
Wagner
Chiasson

If we start looking at the RFA list there are even more names I'd prefer. You can add size and skill, you don't have to get a one dimensional guy like Reaves. I'd rather give Blidh a chance in house than to spend cap space on Reaves.

Give me a 4th line of

Blidh-Kuraly-Stewart/Wagner
Roussel-Kuraly-Acciari

Next year and I think we solve the lack of speed in the bottom 6 and the lack of physicality both in one offseason.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Just looking at the UFA list only here are guys I would prefer that the Bruins target over Reaves:

Chris Stewart.

I just wanted to touch on this guy. I think I'd take Reaves over him easily. Chris Stewart is the epitome of inconsistent. It is scary that Chiarelli almost traded Spooner+ for this guy back when he was with Buffalo. I get Stewart's numbers look pretty good for a 4th liner. Hard to scoff at 0.30PPG pace @ 10Minutes a night. However, I looked at his numbers, and here's what he did:

First 10 Games = 8 Points = 0.80 PPG
Next 44 Games = 8 Points = 0.18 PPG

He only played in 54 games, because he became a consistent healthy scratch. I get with 4th liners, points aren't a big worry, but even physically, he was greatly disappointing.

54 GP -- 48 Hits = 0.89 Hits/Gm

Now Reaves only produced 0.13 PPG during the season, 10 total points for the season, but he finished with 236 hits and averaged 3.0 Hits/Gm. 236 hits placed him 5th overall for forwards. He also played in 79 games. So while he may not give you the points, he was effective enough where teams played him in 96% of the games. Yes, he was scratched in the playoffs, but if you're bringing him in to be what he is, 12th/13th forward, it's not a huge deal if he doesn't play come playoff time. At least you know, if he goes in, he's going to bring it. Effort with Reaves is never something that needs to be questioned.

 

[BruinDust]

Nice try, Reaves is and has been a solid third or fourth line forward for years who also happens to be a great hitter, big and a great fighter. Not because he scored a GWG in the playoffs but because he is the type of player you look for if you want to add size, toughness and hitting on your fourth line who won't hurt your team against "skilled" teams.

Who would you target for that fourth line spot? Alex Semin, Alex Khokolachev, Tobias Reider?

I've come to the conclusion that most of the names you mention in a disparaging way in this toughness argument are players you've actually never seen play.

 

[Sheppy]

If he was such an effective hockey player, why didn't he play earlier in the playoffs then? Seems odd that they wouldn't play him in consecutive games until the conference finals if he were so integral to the team, no?

Winnipeg was a much more physical team. They sat a skilled guy for him, I believe (Tatar)

 

[Over the volcano]

Boston was 5th in the league in fighting majors this season, led by McQuaid, Miller, and Beleskey. . . just something to consider as people argue that McQuaid and Miller are redundant.