Dressing Sheep in Wolves Clothing (Mod Warning page 35)

[Colt.45Orr]

Hockey is a rough game.


I know that this is often forgotten by people making their dream skilled line-ups as they type away on their keyboards or i-phones in a coffee shop, sipping on a nice iced latte.


But, the truth is, it can be a very fast, emotional and physical game. My complaint for a long time now is that the Bruins have their toughness all on the back line between McQuaid (usually out), Miller and Chara. When games get nasty (who is to say when this will be) it is now the responsibility of these 3 to deal with all the fights. This is bizarre when there are guys out there who can play **AND** thrive in the rough stuff.

I have constantly complained that in order for us to respond to cheap, chippy bullshit play then we are automatically going to be down a Dman.

Nobody up front to deal with Josh Anderson?
Send our captain.

Tom Wilson is being Tom Wilson?
Looks like we are down to 5 D.

Pastrnak getting run?
Well, I guess he can try and deal with the 6'5 220pd Dman himself.
(FOR THE RECORD: I don't mind Chara fighting from time to time but Bieksa is out for 6 weeks with a broken hand from his last fight so....)

We continue to dress the wet dream 4th line of many here ("skill, skill, skill!") and are playing these guys limited minutes a night --they are not in an important role where they are going to put up offense so they try and reinvent themselves as "Energy guys".

They are not. Vatrano is trying to play an energy role (good for him) but there are many guys way better suited for this role. Schaller believes he is a super-skilled power forward and if you don't believe me, just watch him play. Kuraly has been a physical disappointment this season and Acciari can't seem to stay healthy in his NHL career. We have a mishmash of 4th liners the last bunch of years (Kempanainen, Talbot etc) and all these guys can get in as utility/ "energy" guys, but why? Talbot tried hitting everything but was slow/useless and threw ineffective hits that showed up on the stats sheet only.

Kenny Agostino is in the line-up for what? His immense PP skills? Is he a shootout specialist? He brought more tonight than a physical forward who could have got in the faces of the skilled CBJ D? Maybe put a few of them through the boards.... oh wait, that is the job of the big, bad, wolf/sheep Vatrano/Nash/Agostino?

I like many of the things that Sweeney and Butch have done but this dog's breakfast of no toughness 4th liners is ignorant. We need a real wolf, a real energy guy that take full advantage of his limited minutes and is a pain in the ass and GOES AFTER OPPONENTS D LIKE OTHER TEAMS GO AFTER OURS.


This is still hockey, after all.

Click to read more...

 

[s3antana5757]

Totally get the point you're trying to make, but if they wanted some of that don't you think they'd try Beleskey and just tell him to goon it up? I just don't think they want that guy in the line-up any longer. Thornton was great because he could actually play. Guys like Randell leave a lot to be desired. If you're going to play Vatrano 3:45 though, you mine as well get someone like Randell to do just that.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

Hockey is a rough game.


I know that this is often forgotten by people making their dream skilled line-ups as they type away on their keyboards or i-phones in a coffee shop, sipping on a nice iced latte.


But, the truth is, it can be a very fast, emotional and physical game. My complaint for a long time now is that the Bruins have their toughness all on the back line between McQuaid (usually out), Miller and Chara. When games get nasty (who is to say when this will be) it is now the responsibility of these 3 to deal with all the fights. This is bizarre when there are guys out there who can play **AND** thrive in the rough stuff.

I have constantly complained that in order for us to respond to cheap, chippy bull**** play then we are automatically going to be down a Dman.

Nobody up front to deal with Josh Anderson?
Send our captain.

Tom Wilson is being Tom Wilson?
Looks like we are down to 5 D.

Pastrnak getting run?
Well, I guess he can try and deal with the 6'5 220pd Dman himself.
(FOR THE RECORD: I don't mind Chara fighting from time to time but Bieksa is out for 6 weeks with a broken hand from his last fight so....)

We continue to dress the wet dream 4th line of many here ("skill, skill, skill!") and are playing these guys limited minutes a night --they are not in an important role where they are going to put up offense so they try and reinvent themselves as "Energy guys".

They are not. Vatrano is trying to play an energy role (good for him) but there are many guys way better suited for this role. Schaller believes he is a super-skilled power forward and if you don't believe me, just watch him play. Kuraly has been a physical disappointment this season and Acciari can't seem to stay healthy in his NHL career. We have a mishmash of 4th liners the last bunch of years (Kempanainen, Talbot etc) and all these guys can get in as utility/ "energy" guys, but why? Talbot tried hitting everything but was slow/useless and threw ineffective hits that showed up on the stats sheet only.

Kenny Agostino is in the line-up for what? His immense PP skills? Is he a shootout specialist? He brought more tonight than a physical forward who could have got in the faces of the skilled CBJ D? Maybe put a few of them through the boards.... oh wait, that is the job of the big, bad, wolf/sheep Vatrano/Nash/Agostino?

I like many of the things that Sweeney and Butch have done but this dog's breakfast of no toughness 4th liners is ignorant. We need a real wolf, a real energy guy that take full advantage of his limited minutes and is a pain in the ass and GOES AFTER OPPONENTS D LIKE OTHER TEAMS GO AFTER OURS.


This is still hockey, after all.

I have ZERO issue having a heavy on the roster, but the guy needs to be able to play the game. The B’s don’t have a Crosby and/or Malkin up front to carry the load. And with all the injuries, they have even less secondary scoring than normal.

Carlo, Miller, McAvoy, and Chara are all big and tough enough to deal with guys like Anderson or Wilson (both of whom can actually play the game). I do agree that I would prefer a tough forward to balance it out. I have always believed that an enforcer does nothing to prevent hits like the one on Krug, who was hit from behind by noted tough guy Oliver Bjorkstrand.

Give me some heavy guys that can skate, but unfortunately, those guys don’t grow on trees.

 

[missingchicklet]

The Bs have $9.8 mil tied up in two forwards who are supposedly tough guys. One is sitting in the press box and the other is trying to keep up with the play.

 

[CHRDANHUTCH]

I have ZERO issue having a heavy on the roster, but the guy needs to be able to play the game. The B’s don’t have a Crosby and/or Malkin up front to carry the load. And with all the injuries, they have even less secondary scoring than normal.

Carlo, Miller, McAvoy, and Chara are all big and tough enough to deal with guys like Anderson or Wilson (both of whom can actually play the game). I do agree that I would prefer a tough forward to balance it out. I have always believed that an enforcer does nothing to prevent hits like the one on Krug, who was hit from behind by noted tough guy Oliver Bjorkstrand.

Give me some heavy guys that can skate, but unfortunately, those guys don’t grow on trees.

TRUE, AND THAT depends a lot of an organizational philosophy, which is further and further from the East era, we need to create a newer identity, not being a physical team, but a skilled aka finesse team, that era has closed after that style runs its course, the days of the Big Bad Bruins or the Broad Street Bullies (Philly) ARE just that part of the history.

 

[GloryDaze4877]

The Bs have $9.8 mil tied up in two forwards who are supposedly tough guys. One is sitting in the press box and the other is trying to keep up with the play.

Beleskey is a good banger, but he was never a good fighter...ever. Backes is getting paid too much to fill an enforcer role.

 

[Alberta_OReilly_Fan]

Hockey is a rough game.


I know that this is often forgotten by people making their dream skilled line-ups as they type away on their keyboards or i-phones in a coffee shop, sipping on a nice iced latte.


But, the truth is, it can be a very fast, emotional and physical game. My complaint for a long time now is that the Bruins have their toughness all on the back line between McQuaid (usually out), Miller and Chara. When games get nasty (who is to say when this will be) it is now the responsibility of these 3 to deal with all the fights. This is bizarre when there are guys out there who can play **AND** thrive in the rough stuff.

I have constantly complained that in order for us to respond to cheap, chippy bull**** play then we are automatically going to be down a Dman.

Nobody up front to deal with Josh Anderson?
Send our captain.

Tom Wilson is being Tom Wilson?
Looks like we are down to 5 D.

Pastrnak getting run?
Well, I guess he can try and deal with the 6'5 220pd Dman himself.
(FOR THE RECORD: I don't mind Chara fighting from time to time but Bieksa is out for 6 weeks with a broken hand from his last fight so....)

We continue to dress the wet dream 4th line of many here ("skill, skill, skill!") and are playing these guys limited minutes a night --they are not in an important role where they are going to put up offense so they try and reinvent themselves as "Energy guys".

They are not. Vatrano is trying to play an energy role (good for him) but there are many guys way better suited for this role. Schaller believes he is a super-skilled power forward and if you don't believe me, just watch him play. Kuraly has been a physical disappointment this season and Acciari can't seem to stay healthy in his NHL career. We have a mishmash of 4th liners the last bunch of years (Kempanainen, Talbot etc) and all these guys can get in as utility/ "energy" guys, but why? Talbot tried hitting everything but was slow/useless and threw ineffective hits that showed up on the stats sheet only.

Kenny Agostino is in the line-up for what? His immense PP skills? Is he a shootout specialist? He brought more tonight than a physical forward who could have got in the faces of the skilled CBJ D? Maybe put a few of them through the boards.... oh wait, that is the job of the big, bad, wolf/sheep Vatrano/Nash/Agostino?

I like many of the things that Sweeney and Butch have done but this dog's breakfast of no toughness 4th liners is ignorant. We need a real wolf, a real energy guy that take full advantage of his limited minutes and is a pain in the ass and GOES AFTER OPPONENTS D LIKE OTHER TEAMS GO AFTER OURS.


This is still hockey, after all.

I think if backes and belesky are in lineup they have to answer bell... i think kuraly and accari are in same boat.

Im a fan of the old days when guys who could play like fergerson, and howe, and oreilly, and gillies were debated to be toughest player in nhl.

For past 2 or 3 decades teams dressed 4 and 5 min per night meatheads that embarrassed us all with their goon antics

The nhl marketing guys rightfully pushed an agenda to elliminate meatheads from the game

Honestly its hard for me to point to more than a handful of times where winning a fight meant that much to a game decesion but ive seen soooo many times where not answering the bell defeated a team

Its really not about having the toughest player in the league. Its definitely is about having each others back

We probably do need a skilled fighter that can dance without getting himself dusted. Even if hes just a hugger. I agree we dont want our dmen to be first responders.

Maybe backes needs to step up more? He wont hurt anyone but he has answered the bell before.

Maybe the situation in columbus is bad enough with josh anderson they might talk trade?

Whoever we bring in needs to be able to play. I dont feel ryan white is that guy

And someone like luke gadzic definitely wouldnt help in my humble opinion.

We need to find ourselves the next lucic and bring back the team swarming. Even guys like gregory campbell and andrew ference can add to team toughness when they are ready to stick up for teammates at any moment

 

[missingchicklet]

Beleskey is a good banger, but he was never a good fighter...ever. Backes is getting paid too much to fill an enforcer role.

That may be so, but they were both brought in to add toughness on the ice. I don't expect either of them to drop the gloves regularly, but I do expect them to get in people's grill when need be and send some messages.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Backes isn't a fighter either --has his hands full with Kadri.

I NEVER said we should get a heavyweight enforcer --if I'm honest with myself, I would love it but with the way the game is played he will not prevent much of anything.

I do think, however, that we should acquire the ability to fight fire with fire.


Teams are smart to run our D --if they get pissed off and want to fight their 4th liner then we are down either a top 2 or top 4 Dman off our pairings. If I was an NHL Dmen then I would love to play the Bruins right now because I know that there is going to be nobody trying to put me through the glass all night.

If you play Toronto (for example) you are going to have Kamarov and Martin trying to run you all night and they are very effective at doing so.

 

[BruinDust]

We continue to dress the wet dream 4th line of many here ("skill, skill, skill!") and are playing these guys limited minutes a night --they are not in an important role where they are going to put up offense so they try and reinvent themselves as "Energy guys".

The 4th line is full of skill? You could of had me fooled.

People can cry about toughness all day long, but the fact remains, if they can't skate, they are USELESS! The sooner that sinks in for some folks, the better off they will be.

This forward group just has way too much vanilla, too many guys with no skill, no speed, and little to no toughness. And Cassidy puts way too much trust in vanilla. Kuraly and Schaller out there in the 3 on 3 OT was comical.

The speed issue was evident especially in the 1st period. Bruin forwards had no answer for the big, talented, mobile D of the Blue Jackets.

 

[BruinDust]

Backes isn't a fighter either --has his hands full with Kadri.

I NEVER said we should get a heavyweight enforcer --if I'm honest with myself, I would love it but with the way the game is played he will not prevent much of anything.

I do think, however, that we should acquire the ability to fight fire with fire.


Teams are smart to run our D --if they get pissed off and want to fight their 4th liner then we are down either a top 2 or top 4 Dman off our pairings. If I was an NHL Dmen then I would love to play the Bruins right now because I know that there is going to be nobody trying to put me through the glass all night.

If you play Toronto (for example) you are going to have Kamarov and Martin trying to run you all night and they are very effective at doing so.

Martin and Komarov have been playing this way for years.

Has a punch to the face stopped them yet?

Where do the Bruins find a guy like a Martin or a Reeves, guys who can skate AND put guys through the boards?

 

[Colt.45Orr]

The 4th line is full of skill? You could of had me fooled.

The speed issue was evident especially in the 1st period. Bruin forwards had no answer for the big, talented, mobile D of the Blue Jackets.

Vatrano (3mins tonight) has lots more skill than a traditional 4th liner energy guy. So does Agostino (AHL MVP)... lots of skill.

Agreed, the best way to slow that speed down is to get on the body, finish checks and put their head on a swivel from bloody time to time.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Martin and Komarov have been playing this way for years.

Has a punch to the face stopped them yet?

Where do the Bruins find a guy like a Martin or a Reeves, guys who can skate AND put guys through the boards?

I'm not talking about "stopping them" --I want to join them! "Fight fire with fire" etc.

 

[toasterjam]

Debrusk had 5 hits recorded...the more this kid plays the more i love his game.
Miller had 8 hits.


I wish Blidh looked better in preseason but he was rough..I love him as a player...nonstop motor...hits everything...can play responsible...the draw back with reffing now...Blidh has turned more into a penalty machine. All his little stuff he uses to get under opposing teams skin will just result in lots of ticky tacky slashing calls.

I still have a little shred of hope he could get another look at some point...the guy is a pure energy player...relentless on forecheck. Id love to watch him smash everything and make opposing D a little worried when they have the puck in the corner and see him flying in.

Not sure he'll chip in much offense though..15-20 points Id hope?

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Debrusk had 5 hits recorded...the more this kid plays the more i love his game.
Miller had 8 hits.


I wish Blidh looked better in preseason but he was rough..I love him as a player...nonstop motor...hits everything...can play responsible...the draw back with reffing now...Blidh has turned more into a penalty machine. All his little stuff he uses to get under opposing teams skin will just result in lots of ticky tacky slashing calls.

I still have a little shred of hope he could get another look at some point...the guy is a pure energy player...relentless on forecheck. Id love to watch him smash everything and make opposing D a little worried when they have the puck in the corner and see him flying in.

Not sure he'll chip in much offense though..15-20 points Id hope?

Good option --I forgot about him actually. I'm not sure if he's in the plans or not. He kills penalties in Providence, right?

 

[toasterjam]

Good option --I forgot about him actually. I'm not sure he's in the plans or not. He kills penalties in Providence, right?

yea not sure if it's too late for him..but yes he does PK. He would have to be real disciplined to stick and still be as effective in his pest role...if he can figure out how to walk that line, I'd like to see him again.

and I do think he can walk that line...he has had pretty low PIM's his whole career..so he has found ways to be a real pest and not rack up all that much dumb penalties.

 

[dafoomie]

Been pretty dissatisfied with the bottom 6 overall, there's an opportunity to get tougher and better there if they weren't so afraid to move on from players. Also, no reason for Schaller to be playing up in the lineup all the time, if "skill" guys can't be better than Schaller they shouldn't be playing with Cehlarik almost ready to go.

Have to think they've already passed on Ryan White by now, which is unfortunate.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Been pretty dissatisfied with the bottom 6 overall, there's an opportunity to get tougher and better there if they weren't so afraid to move on from players. Also, no reason for Schaller to be playing up in the lineup all the time, if "skill" guys can't be better than Schaller they shouldn't be playing with Cehlarik almost ready to go.

Have to think they've already passed on Ryan White by now, which is unfortunate.

I couldn't agree more with this post on all points.

It is unreal to me that Schaller couldn't stick with the worst team in the division (Sabres had him up for 17 games and didn't care to bring him back the next year, which was last year) and we somehow brought him in, a miracle development happened to him at 25!! and played him on the 2nd line at times!!! --Almost as idiotic as Nash as a 1st line fill-in C-- and now he appears to be a staple in the line-up. I guess we have the smartest guys in the room again.

Schaller does something decent and has a good game every 4 or 5 games or so. Management loves him --local college kid = gold-- but if our prospect-ready depth this year can't replace a Schaller then it isn't actually all that good.

I don't get the Ryan White thing --I mean, we lose our best hitter in Acciari and our best fighter in McQuaid but then we don't sign and play the guy we brought in on a PTO who does both very, very well?

Again, if I'm a coach playing the Bruins then I tell my guys to stir things up because there will be no (real) response from the forwards and the B's defence will be taken off the ice if/when things boil over.

 

[BruinsPortugal]

The truth is the roster is pretty bad when you look at it. We are currently playing a 1st line, a mended 2nd line and two average to bad 4th lines. I’m amazed they are getting as many points as they have.

We lack toughness, skill, and speed. It’s been great to see the kids play and grow before our eyes, Charlie looks like a veteran out there, but we need help, we need Sweeney to complete this roster and so far he has done squat.

 

[BruinDust]

I couldn't agree more with this post on all points.

It is unreal to me that Schaller couldn't stick with the worst team in the division (Sabres had him up for 17 games and didn't care to bring him back the next year, which was last year) and we somehow brought him in, a miracle development happened to him at 25!! and played him on the 2nd line at times!!! --Almost as idiotic as Nash as a 1st line fill-in C-- and now he appears to be a staple in the line-up. I guess we have the smartest guys in the room again.

Schaller does something decent and has a good game every 4 or 5 games or so. Management loves him --local college kid = gold-- but if our prospect-ready depth this year can't replace a Schaller then it isn't actually all that good.

I don't get the Ryan White thing --I mean, we lose our best hitter in Acciari and our best fighter in McQuaid but then we don't sign and play the guy we brought in on a PTO who does both very, very well?

Again, if I'm a coach playing the Bruins then I tell my guys to stir things up because there will be no (real) response from the forwards and the B's defence will be taken off the ice if/when things boil over.

You make a real good point about other teams agitating the Bruins will lead to the B's D being the ones taken off.

Sadly, Nash and Schaller's spots in the line-up are pretty much etched in stone. I don't hate Schaller, honestly wouldn't mind seeing him get some more looks as 4th line C, but really didn't like how he was used last night. My disgust for Riley Nash is well documented.

I don't think the White thing is dead in the water, yet. Bruins just have a roster-crunched when everyone is healthy, adding another body without subtracting (via trade or waivers) is problematic.

But don't get your hopes up Sweeney will trade an excess body to make room for White. We're talking about a GM who has made exactly one trade (Stafford) in the last 19 months on the job.

Personally I'd sign White, I like him a heck of a lot better than Noel (No-Goals) Acciari, who is penciled into that 4th line RW spot when he returns (or is it 3rd line RW?). White brings more to the table IMO, whereas Acciari brings hitting, and really it's in open ice that Acciari's hitting is a strength, he's good at catching guys with their heads down.

 

[LouJersey]

This would have been a great post written after the first. Bruins were manhandled. Then, came out in the second and whipped Columbus ass up and down the ice. Chara needed to step up there, that's what captains that can fight do. And he made Anderson look silly. Kid was quiet af after that. Then I saw Kevan Miller pummel Bjorkstrand while I watched several Jackets afraid to jump in. I saw JDB and Schaller in Dubinsky's face numberous times after the first, and Backes on Calvert as well. JDB and Miller were trying to hit everything that moved.

Not sure how we can question a teams toughness when they not only responded physically in an overwhelming manner, but stole a point after being down 0-3. The "intimidating" Columbus tough guys wilted like a shrinking violet once Chara tossed Josh Anderson around like a sack of potatoes.

 

[ODAAT]

I`m all up for some nasty on the 4th line but they have to know how to play too and IMO, there just isn`t an abundance of players like that out there

I`ll wait patiently for the Randell fans to pipe in anytime now

 

[Fenian24]

Martin and Komarov have been playing this way for years.

Has a punch to the face stopped them yet?

Where do the Bruins find a guy like a Martin or a Reeves, guys who can skate AND put guys through the boards?

You draft and develop them, the mantra of many on this board. Instead of taking Ryan Donato you take Dylan Sadowy, you take Connor Brown in the 5th round with one of your two picks, You take Josh Anderson instead of Matt Grzelcyk. You commit to drafting size, toughness and skill as well as speed and skill.

You sign free agents like Ryan White, Tanner Glass, Chris Thorburn or Brad Malone all of whom can play the same amount of minutes as any current Bruin fourth liner and produce as much offense and hit and fight.

You sign some ufa's coming out of juniors for Providence and tell your coaching staff to play them to see if they can develop and become fourth line energy guys. You may waste a contract or two or just have them on AHL deals, it's worth the risk.

There are options, the disingenuousness of some poster who will look at a guy like Reaves or Martin and say "he has no place in the game anymore" if the Bruins are looking at him as a trade or free agent signing but will then say "oh if you need a tough guy, which the Bruins and game don't, those are the only ones I'd take" (not a shot at you Bruindust) is ridiculous, for all the times I'm accused of having an agenda there are as many pacifists who just want speed skating with sticks with their own agendas.

This team desperately needs at least one fourth line player, not even looking at a top 9 forward with size and toughness, as badly as any Bruins team I can imagine.

The fans who hate physical play and want speed, speed and more speed may not like it and may not admit it but size, toughness, fighting and just plain mean still are very beneficial in hockey.

 

[Fenian24]

I`m all up for some nasty on the 4th line but they have to know how to play too and IMO, there just isn`t an abundance of players like that out there

I`ll wait patiently for the Randell fans to pipe in anytime now

Not tough to replace a guy playing three minutes a night with another player who will be a physical force playing that same amount of time and will fight so Chara and Miller don't have too. Give Gabrielle a look if all that 12th forward is going to play is 3-5 minutes a night. Sign Adam Payeri if all the player gets is 3 minutes a night.

 

[BruinDust]

You draft and develop them, the mantra of many on this board. Instead of taking Ryan Donato you take Dylan Sadowy, you take Connor Brown in the 5th round with one of your two picks, You take Josh Anderson instead of Matt Grzelcyk. You commit to drafting size, toughness and skill as well as speed and skill.

You sign free agents like Ryan White, Tanner Glass, Chris Thorburn or Brad Malone all of whom can play the same amount of minutes as any current Bruin fourth liner and produce as much offense and hit and fight.

You sign some ufa's coming out of juniors for Providence and tell your coaching staff to play them to see if they can develop and become fourth line energy guys. You may waste a contract or two or just have them on AHL deals, it's worth the risk.

There are options, the disingenuousness of some poster who will look at a guy like Reaves or Martin and say "he has no place in the game anymore" if the Bruins are looking at him as a trade or free agent signing but will then say "oh if you need a tough guy, which the Bruins and game don't, those are the only ones I'd take" (not a shot at you Bruindust) is ridiculous, for all the times I'm accused of having an agenda there are as many pacifists who just want speed skating with sticks with their own agendas.

This team desperately needs at least one fourth line player, not even looking at a top 9 forward with size and toughness, as badly as any Bruins team I can imagine.

The fans who hate physical play and want speed, speed and more speed may not like it and may not admit it but size, toughness, fighting and just plain mean still are very beneficial in hockey.

I'm with you in that they haven't drafted many (or any) players of the ilk of a Martin or Reeves. Certainly is a weakness in the overall depth of the organization. Given the sheer number of picks this team has had, they can afford to do so. Sweeney is also paying the price of not drafting/developing any players like this prior to him taking over the job, chances are if they had taken one in the 3 drafts he's presided over, that player wouldn't be ready to play right now.

Personally I'd sign White and move out some dead weight to make room for him, whether that be via waivers or trade.