Dressing Sheep in Wolves Clothing (Mod Warning page 35)

[Rubber Biscuit]

I just wanted to touch on this guy. I think I'd take Reaves over him easily. Chris Stewart is the epitome of inconsistent. It is scary that Chiarelli almost traded Spooner+ for this guy back when he was with Buffalo. I get Stewart's numbers look pretty good for a 4th liner. Hard to scoff at 0.30PPG pace @ 10Minutes a night. However, I looked at his numbers, and here's what he did:

First 10 Games = 8 Points = 0.80 PPG
Next 44 Games = 8 Points = 0.18 PPG

He only played in 54 games, because he became a consistent healthy scratch. I get with 4th liners, points aren't a big worry, but even physically, he was greatly disappointing.

54 GP -- 48 Hits = 0.89 Hits/Gm

Now Reaves only produced 0.13 PPG during the season, 10 total points for the season, but he finished with 236 hits and averaged 3.0 Hits/Gm. 236 hits placed him 5th overall for forwards. He also played in 79 games. So while he may not give you the points, he was effective enough where teams played him in 96% of the games. Yes, he was scratched in the playoffs, but if you're bringing him in to be what he is, 12th/13th forward, it's not a huge deal if he doesn't play come playoff time. At least you know, if he goes in, he's going to bring it. Effort with Reaves is never something that needs to be questioned.

I could be way off but wasn’t the + with Spooner the pick that ended up being Carlo? Yikes

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I could be way off but wasn’t the + with Spooner the pick that ended up being Carlo? Yikes

Possibly. I don't remember the specifics besides the deal being discussed was Spooner and Stewart. Tim Murray supposedly was the one that turned it down......Ouch.

 

[Sheppy]

I just wanted to touch on this guy. I think I'd take Reaves over him easily. Chris Stewart is the epitome of inconsistent. It is scary that Chiarelli almost traded Spooner+ for this guy back when he was with Buffalo. I get Stewart's numbers look pretty good for a 4th liner. Hard to scoff at 0.30PPG pace @ 10Minutes a night. However, I looked at his numbers, and here's what he did:

First 10 Games = 8 Points = 0.80 PPG
Next 44 Games = 8 Points = 0.18 PPG

He only played in 54 games, because he became a consistent healthy scratch. I get with 4th liners, points aren't a big worry, but even physically, he was greatly disappointing.

54 GP -- 48 Hits = 0.89 Hits/Gm

Now Reaves only produced 0.13 PPG during the season, 10 total points for the season, but he finished with 236 hits and averaged 3.0 Hits/Gm. 236 hits placed him 5th overall for forwards. He also played in 79 games. So while he may not give you the points, he was effective enough where teams played him in 96% of the games. Yes, he was scratched in the playoffs, but if you're bringing him in to be what he is, 12th/13th forward, it's not a huge deal if he doesn't play come playoff time. At least you know, if he goes in, he's going to bring it. Effort with Reaves is never something that needs to be questioned.

When you watch Reaves hit, he hits to hurt. He isn't going up to pad the hitting stats column, he's going to put you through the boards on 90% of them.

I remember his first game of the year he pounded the piss out of Cody McLeod and Austin Watson and laughed at the Nashville bench. It was hilarious.

 

[Fenian24]

For the people advocating for Reaves (or a Reaves type) what would you pay for that kind of player contract-wise?? How much value do you put on the toughness aspect of the game, for a limited player who will essentially play limited minutes in a limited role?

Not trying to argue it or debate it, just trying to see how much value other folks put on this and where it is compared to folks who don't value it as much.

1.5-2 for Roussel or Reaves. A guy like CurtisMcKenzie or Garnet Hathaway who can play a similar roll but are unproven 900-1.5.

 

[Fenian24]

I've come to the conclusion that most of the names you mention in a disparaging way in this toughness argument are players you've actually never seen play.

So Semin and Reider are gritty?

 

[BruinDust]

So Semin and Reider are gritty?

Pretty sure Reider took the heavyweight title away from Semin.

 

[Fenian24]

Just looking at the UFA list only here are guys I would prefer that the Bruins target over Reaves:

Christ Stewart
Roussel
Wagner
Chiasson

If we start looking at the RFA list there are even more names I'd prefer. You can add size and skill, you don't have to get a one dimensional guy like Reaves. I'd rather give Blidh a chance in house than to spend cap space on Reaves.

Give me a 4th line of

Blidh-Kuraly-Stewart/Wagner
Roussel-Kuraly-Acciari

Next year and I think we solve the lack of speed in the bottom 6 and the lack of physicality both in one offseason.

I like both of those suggestions, would probably go Roussel-Kuraly-Stewart myself because I think Wagner is going to command a solid salary.

 

[LSCII]

1.5-2 for Roussel or Reaves. A guy like CurtisMcKenzie or Garnet Hathaway who can play a similar roll but are unproven 900-1.5.

I'd be more willing to pay Roussel than Reaves, since he does more, but he was already pulling in $2 Mill per year, so I doubt he signs for less or the same. If anything, you have to assume he'd be looking for more.

I'm all for improving the bottom 6 if the price is right though. Given the two you mentioned, I think Reaves would be more in line salary wise with what they're looking to pay. And that's if they're even looking at upgrading that line's physicality.

 

[Fenian24]

When you watch Reaves hit, he hits to hurt. He isn't going up to pad the hitting stats column, he's going to put you through the boards on 90% of them.

I remember his first game of the year he pounded the piss out of Cody McLeod and Austin Watson and laughed at the Nashville bench. It was hilarious.

Yup after Nashville had run Crosby in the finals the year before and Pitt decided to do something about it. Would love that type of attitude back on the Bruins.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I like both of those suggestions, would probably go Roussel-Kuraly-Stewart myself because I think Wagner is going to command a solid salary.

Roussel could command a bigger salary than Wagner. I'm big on Wagner this offseason. That said, what has he done to command a "solid" salary? He should come in at 1M or less. He made 650k on this last contract, and had a cap hit of 637k. He can hit and play on the PK, but I'm not seeing the offensive production to warrant much over 1M....Hell, anything more than that and I would pass. He should see an increase in salary but I see him settling in at a 800-1M range.

 

[Fenian24]

I'd be more willing to pay Roussel than Reaves, since he does more, but he was already pulling in $2 Mill per year, so I doubt he signs for less or the same. If anything, you have to assume he'd be looking for more.

Had a down year though , maybe because of Hitchcock not using him on top two lines and cutting his ice time or he may be starting to show wear and tear. I think they could get him for around what he made last year, maybe a touch more.
I believe if you put him with a talented line he can produce double digit goals and 25-30 points on top of his physical game.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

For the people advocating for Reaves (or a Reaves type) what would you pay for that kind of player contract-wise?? How much value do you put on the toughness aspect of the game, for a limited player who will essentially play limited minutes in a limited role?

Not trying to argue it or debate it, just trying to see how much value other folks put on this and where it is compared to folks who don't value it as much.

I think this is where some really separate themselves. I'll list a few, but my value for these types of players?

Roussel: 1-2M AAV ... He has been a consistent 10-15G/30P guy in his career, but last year, he put up 17 points. He saw a decrease in playing time from previous seasons. Why? I'm not sure I'd want the Bruins paying much more than what he's already earning. I would take Roussel on the 4th line, but for me, it would be a luxury to have him at 2M there. If you're signing him for anything over 2M, you're entering 3rd line territory.

Reaves: 1M AAV ... For what he brings, I think it's actually an overpayment but for a year, it's not a huge deal. Anything more, I look elsewhere. He gets this kind of money because he can fight but also play; something goons usually can't do.

Other possible players; Wagner? McKenzie? etc. I'm thinking between a range of 700k-1M AAV.

 

[Rubber Biscuit]

Had a down year though , maybe because of Hitchcock not using him on top two lines and cutting his ice time or he may be starting to show wear and tear. I think they could get him for around what he made last year, maybe a touch more.

I would be all for Roussel (among others) at the right price

I believe if you put him with a talented line he can produce double digit goals and 25-30 points on top of his physical game.

I think, realistically, this is the kind of thing all of us here would be happy acquiring.

I don’t think there are people who want to outright avoid physical guys. I think there’s basically two camps: those who think more physicality is the answer, and those who would be happy adding physicality but don’t think it is the answer and therefore don’t want to overpay/sacrifice too much speed and skill for it

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

I want some physicality in the bottom 6 that has some speed. I'd love a physical top 6 forward, but they don't grow on trees and you basically have to hit the jack pot and develop them.

 

[Tmac37]

Players we are seeking in this thread are better off home grown. Hate over paying an energy guy and regretting it.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Players we are seeking in this thread are better off home grown. Hate over paying an energy guy and regretting it.

There are energy guys available that you shouldn't have to overpay for, money/term wise.

 

[Over the volcano]

There are energy guys available that you shouldn't have to overpay for, money/term wise.

Lets get some names - and then we can figure if we'd rather have them or guys like Nash, Bjork, Donato, Fitzgerald, Blidh, Kuraly, Acciari, Chelarik . . .

 

[bb_fan]

Players we are seeking in this thread are better off home grown. Hate over paying an energy guy and regretting it.

define home grown?

as in drafted and developed?

if so, the question becomes... what's easier to do, trade for skilled guys or trade for energy guys?

I ask that in regards to drafting.

If a potential top six forward is available vs a sure fire bottom six energy guy (say 3rd round or later....) wh0 would you rather see them draft?

 

[dafoomie]

Players we are seeking in this thread are better off home grown. Hate over paying an energy guy and regretting it.

Can you grow one for us in 5 months?

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

Lets get some names - and then we can figure if we'd rather have them or guys like Nash, Bjork, Donato, Fitzgerald, Blidh, Kuraly, Acciari, Chelarik . . .

Most of the guys I like are pretty much 4th line players. So you could technically take out Bjork, Cehlarik, and Donato. I wouldn't take any of the guys I'm going to list over them. I think Riley Nash is as good as gone as well.

Chris Wagner
Antoine Roussel
Derek Grant
Ryan Reaves
Curtis McKenzie
Connor Brickley

I actually wanted to touch on Brickley specifically. He's related to Andy Brickley (I believe 2nd cousins). He's 26 years old, playing on Florida. He will be a UFA, if he's not signed. He's only played in 67 NHL games, but production wise isn't bad for a 4th liner (0.25 PPG). He's gritty, and while not tall (6'0'') he is 200 lbs. and has a strong frame. He can skate and will play the body. He would bring versatility to the lineup, being able to play all 3 forward positions. Two-way player as well. This past season, he played 38Minutes of PK time, which is an average of just under a 1M/Gm on the PK, so he could potentially be an option there. He averaged around ~2 Hits/Gm, and finished the season with 82 Hits in 44 games played. In 67 career games, he has 128 hits. Just for reference, if he played every game and averaged the 2 hits/Gm, he'd be tied 1st on the Bruins this past season with 164 hits. He was used as a 13th forward for the Panthers this year, so he's not a guy who would necessarily need to play every game. 12P/44GP in a limited role wouldn't be bad for a 13th forward though....Wouldn't be bad if you gave him an expanded 4th line role and he produced like that throughout the season.

Those are a few names I've seen mentioned here by others and guys I've liked if they were to go bargain hunting for some physicality. I know we have Blidh in the system, but after him? I don't see any players that play physical that could be NHL ready.

 

[McGarnagle]

So Semin and Reider are gritty?

If you have Gritty Semin you should see a urologist

 

[Over the volcano]

Most of the guys I like are pretty much 4th line players. So you could technically take out Bjork, Cehlarik, and Donato. I wouldn't take any of the guys I'm going to list over them. I think Riley Nash is as good as gone as well.

Chris Wagner
Antoine Roussel
Derek Grant
Ryan Reaves
Curtis McKenzie
Connor Brickley

I actually wanted to touch on Brickley specifically. He's related to Andy Brickley (I believe 2nd cousins). He's 26 years old, playing on Florida. He will be a UFA, if he's not signed. He's only played in 67 NHL games, but production wise isn't bad for a 4th liner (0.25 PPG). He's gritty, and while not tall (6'0'') he is 200 lbs. and has a strong frame. He can skate and will play the body. He would bring versatility to the lineup, being able to play all 3 forward positions. Two-way player as well. This past season, he played 38Minutes of PK time, which is an average of just under a 1M/Gm on the PK, so he could potentially be an option there. He averaged around ~2 Hits/Gm, and finished the season with 82 Hits in 44 games played. In 67 career games, he has 128 hits. Just for reference, if he played every game and averaged the 2 hits/Gm, he'd be tied 1st on the Bruins this past season with 164 hits. He was used as a 13th forward for the Panthers this year, so he's not a guy who would necessarily need to play every game. 12P/44GP in a limited role wouldn't be bad for a 13th forward though....Wouldn't be bad if you gave him an expanded 4th line role and he produced like that throughout the season.

Those are a few names I've seen mentioned here by others and guys I've liked if they were to go bargain hunting for some physicality. I know we have Blidh in the system, but after him? I don't see any players that play physical that could be NHL ready.

Brickley's a good role player but a pretty long way from a "wolf" that they could count on over guys like Kuraly/Acciari. I mean if they need a 13th forward I guess he'd be fine, but it doesn't really address the issue here.

McKenzie isn't an NHL player at this point.
Roussel's ship sailed on this organization a while ago.
Wagner or Grant would be alright if they need some utility grit but I don't think I'd call either of them "wolves"

 

[NDiesel]

Players we are seeking in this thread are better off home grown. Hate over paying an energy guy and regretting it.

I agree on this, but I don't really know who we have in house besides Blidh that would be worth a look.

 

[BruinsFanSince94]

McKenzie isn't an NHL player at this point.

Neither was Schaller when the Bruins signed him and neither is Blidh. McKenzie would be a Schaller-esque signing. He's a guy who has produced in the AHL, better than Schaller did, and brings a physical style to the lineup. He'd be a low risk type signing. He's produced on par with a 4th liner when given a chance. He'll also stand up for teammates and fight if needed.

Roussel's ship sailed on this organization a while ago.

How so? He was brought in on an AHL contract back in 2010. Just because it didn't work out then, doesn't mean anything. If Boston knew that he'd turn into the player he has developed into, I'm sure they don't let him walk. It was 8 years ago though. If he doesn't sign here, it won't be because they let him go back in 2010.

Wagner is meh

I like Wagner's game so I will disagree there. With everything he would bring, he'd be an upgrade on basically every player they had in a bottom 6 role, minus Kuraly (and it would be close). He definitely would bring a consistent physical aspect that I think is needed.

 

[BiGBear8]

Most of the guys I like are pretty much 4th line players. So you could technically take out Bjork, Cehlarik, and Donato. I wouldn't take any of the guys I'm going to list over them. I think Riley Nash is as good as gone as well.

Chris Wagner
Antoine Roussel
Derek Grant
Ryan Reaves
Curtis McKenzie
Connor Brickley

I actually wanted to touch on Brickley specifically. He's related to Andy Brickley (I believe 2nd cousins). He's 26 years old, playing on Florida. He will be a UFA, if he's not signed. He's only played in 67 NHL games, but production wise isn't bad for a 4th liner (0.25 PPG). He's gritty, and while not tall (6'0'') he is 200 lbs. and has a strong frame. He can skate and will play the body. He would bring versatility to the lineup, being able to play all 3 forward positions. Two-way player as well. This past season, he played 38Minutes of PK time, which is an average of just under a 1M/Gm on the PK, so he could potentially be an option there. He averaged around ~2 Hits/Gm, and finished the season with 82 Hits in 44 games played. In 67 career games, he has 128 hits. Just for reference, if he played every game and averaged the 2 hits/Gm, he'd be tied 1st on the Bruins this past season with 164 hits. He was used as a 13th forward for the Panthers this year, so he's not a guy who would necessarily need to play every game. 12P/44GP in a limited role wouldn't be bad for a 13th forward though....Wouldn't be bad if you gave him an expanded 4th line role and he produced like that throughout the season.

Those are a few names I've seen mentioned here by others and guys I've liked if they were to go bargain hunting for some physicality. I know we have Blidh in the system, but after him? I don't see any players that play physical that could be NHL ready.

Connor Brickley also younger and bigger than Roussel