Do You Want The Sedins To Return Next Season?

[MisfortuneCookie]

They always come to camp in the best shape, they know how to be pros. This team is going absolutely nowhere for a few years. Would you rather have Eriksson teaching these kids how to be pros? If they take 2 million each and settle into a 4th line role, and accept being split apart for a season, they can still be more effective than any of this absolute dog crap that Benning has 'growing' on the farm.

They have irritated me as leaders. Daniel being a punching bag in the 2011 finals was my most embarrassing moment as a fan. Few franchises have moments like these, but the Canucks are full of them. "Waving the white flag" is a statue we have outside of our arena. What the hell is the culture of this team? I'm perfectly fine with the refs allowing it to happen. In the end, they are in charge of 'managing' a game, and hockey is a combat sport. End of story. Your job is not to be a punching bag, it's to show fire and get the fans fired up. No wonder Rogers Arena has been the quietest library on earth since their arrival.

Phenomenal talents, but their "never change the way you play, ever" philosophy was one Robert Luongo "choke time" goal away from blowing a 3-0 series lead in the first round of the playoffs. A historic collapse. We would never hear the end of it. If not for Luongo not crapping his pants, and Burrows receiving a deus ex machine in overtime, their history of leadership would be a joke. They never again faced adversity that year, until the final round, and it caused them to be the lowest scoring team in stanley cup final history. Injuries or not, that team did not have the 'fire' to win the stanley cup.

I'm not even sure I want Bo to have the C, because his interviews are so "Sedin" like. I'm sick of this faceless franchise. They don't want their players to express ANYTHING with passion. They want a bland brand that doesn't offend anyone or impress anyone. Pure blandness. Blandness is in their nature.

 

[Verviticus]

i read this entire thread and the only acceptable argument against keeping them is "they might prevent us from being dead-last next year" which, when thats the best argument, you know you're on the wrong side

 

[Wo Yorfat]

If Benning is still here, I want the Sedins re-signed. It's almost assuredly a 1 yr deal so no big issue, and that's like 7 or 8M (in total obv) that he doesn't have available to make another Eriksson style mega fail.

 

[Verviticus]

actually i changed my mind, i definitely want to agree with dumbasses like don cherry and the 76 year old men that still like saying "sedin sisters" on this subject please get rid of them

 

[Josepho]

i read this entire thread and the only acceptable argument against keeping them is "they might prevent us from being dead-last next year" which, when thats the best argument, you know you're on the wrong side

I think there's definitely a reasonable concern with their 5v5 efficiency.

 

[Verviticus]

they're better than players we would/could replace them with. letting them walk is purely a equation of "how bad to we want to be"

they arent perfect as players, but thankfully hockey players as a general rule do not have to be perfect

 

[Horse McHindu]

For me, it’s a ‘no.’

Horvat is the alpha of this team now and I believe that guys like Horvat and Boeser can provide the necessary leadership and guidance for this team.

If it was up to me, Henrik would be traded at the deadline at 50% retention for a 1st round pick and a damn good prospect.

Daniel could also go to another team if there are takers.

Unfortunately, I don’t see this happening. The twins’ have a NMC.

I believe that 14 million can be best used elsewhere (I.e reupping certain pending RFA’s on our team, signing other UFA’s).

 

[F A N]

I voted yes. Only because I think the team still needs to fill Sedins' spots and there aren't replacements available.

Horvat is the alpha of this team now and I believe that guys like Horvat and Boeser can provide the necessary leadership and guidance for this team.

The Sedins are future hall of famers. Horvat doesn't even have the A yet and Boeser will only be a sophomore next season who might have the sophomore slump. While I think Horvat can certainly handle the captaincy at this point, it's also not easy being the captain of a losing team. Having Henrik there answering questions takes a load off.

You don't need to be a captain to be a leader. But the captaincy can weigh on a player.

 

[Horse McHindu]

I voted yes. Only because I think the team still needs to fill Sedins' spots and there aren't replacements available.



The Sedins are future hall of famers. Horvat doesn't even have the A yet and Boeser will only be a sophomore next season who might have the sophomore slump. While I think Horvat can certainly handle the captaincy at this point, it's also not easy being the captain of a losing team. Having Henrik there answering questions takes a load off.

You don't need to be a captain to be a leader. But the captaincy can weigh on a player.

Good post, but you have to bite the proverbial boner at some point. The Canucks could use another 1st rounder and good prospect.

If there are leadership concerns, re-sign the twins on July 1st. Regardless - Henrik should be dealt at the deadline. Extend Daniel a week after Henrik is traded, to reassure the twins that the team is serious about having them again in Vancouver.

 

[geebaan]

If you can get them for a cheap price why not? Otherwise probably best to move on.

 

[coolboarder]

I would say no to them. The game has passed them by and they do not have what it takes to win games anymore. I do not know why they would want to keep them. I would rather our young players learning what it takes to win games without them, the sooner they learn, the better it will be. If they do not feel that their prospects are ready, use 14 million cap space to find players as a stop-gap for one season or two but no Sedins please. We need some speed to our line-up and the Sedins are the slowest guys on the team. If you asked me back in November, I wouldn't mind having them back at a 2 million per year but their play do not show us some confidence for next season in last two months. Therefore, my mind has changed due to their play that is not consistent. They are HHOF players without a doubt.

 

[Zippgunn]

They always come to camp in the best shape, they know how to be pros. This team is going absolutely nowhere for a few years. Would you rather have Eriksson teaching these kids how to be pros? If they take 2 million each and settle into a 4th line role, and accept being split apart for a season, they can still be more effective than any of this absolute dog crap that Benning has 'growing' on the farm.

They have irritated me as leaders. Daniel being a punching bag in the 2011 finals was my most embarrassing moment as a fan. Few franchises have moments like these, but the Canucks are full of them. "Waving the white flag" is a statue we have outside of our arena. What the hell is the culture of this team? I'm perfectly fine with the refs allowing it to happen. In the end, they are in charge of 'managing' a game, and hockey is a combat sport. End of story. Your job is not to be a punching bag, it's to show fire and get the fans fired up. No wonder Rogers Arena has been the quietest library on earth since their arrival.

Phenomenal talents, but their "never change the way you play, ever" philosophy was one Robert Luongo "choke time" goal away from blowing a 3-0 series lead in the first round of the playoffs. A historic collapse. We would never hear the end of it. If not for Luongo not crapping his pants, and Burrows receiving a deus ex machine in overtime, their history of leadership would be a joke. They never again faced adversity that year, until the final round, and it caused them to be the lowest scoring team in stanley cup final history. Injuries or not, that team did not have the 'fire' to win the stanley cup.

I'm not even sure I want Bo to have the C, because his interviews are so "Sedin" like. I'm sick of this faceless franchise. They don't want their players to express ANYTHING with passion. They want a bland brand that doesn't offend anyone or impress anyone. Pure blandness. Blandness is in their nature.

I think it is time to turn the page on the "Sedin era". This team need a whole new philosophy and it won't happen while they are here. We have been a "reactive" team since Naslund became captain and have remained so during the Sedin era. We need to be more proactive, to be the team that everybody else is complaining about with our rough and tumble play and our take no prisoners attitude. Messier may have been way past his prime and relatively ineffective during his time here but even at age 39 nobody was going to facewash him and get away with it...

 

[F A N]

Good post, but you have to bite the proverbial ***** at some point. The Canucks could use another 1st rounder and good prospect.

If there are leadership concerns, re-sign the twins on July 1st. Regardless - Henrik should be dealt at the deadline. Extend Daniel a week after Henrik is traded, to reassure the twins that the team is serious about having them again in Vancouver.

But that's a different discussion though. If the Sedins are amenable to be dealt then ya they SHOULD be dealt. But if they are not, then they won't. I would say the odds are higher than 50/50 that if the Canucks choose to move on, the Sedins won't sign with another NHL team. So whether or not the Sedins return to the Canucks next season likely has nothing to do with whether the Sedins are dealt or not.

The chances are that the Sedins aren't going to be traded and the Sedins won't play for any other NHL team other than the Canucks whether or not the Canucks choose to bring them back next season.

 

[StreetHawk]

I voted yes. Only because I think the team still needs to fill Sedins' spots and there aren't replacements available.



The Sedins are future hall of famers. Horvat doesn't even have the A yet and Boeser will only be a sophomore next season who might have the sophomore slump. While I think Horvat can certainly handle the captaincy at this point, it's also not easy being the captain of a losing team. Having Henrik there answering questions takes a load off.

You don't need to be a captain to be a leader. But the captaincy can weigh on a player.

Then be like the Leafs and operate without an official "C" on anyone's jersey. Everyone gets so hung up no the C. Go with 3 A's for a year or 2. Not hurting Toronto. They know that it would be too much to slap that C on Mathews in year 2.

 

[Melvin]

Pretty much the terrible optics of retaining them would out-weigh any benefit.

Really do not see it happening regardless.

 

[JuniorNelson]

Great leadership doesn't land you in the toilet for years on end. I discount any leadership arguments.

On ice they are simply too slow. End.

 

[LickTheEnvelope]

No but mainly because there's no room in the top 9 with all the young guys who should be coming in: Gaudette, Pettersson and maybe Dahlen.

 

[vancityluongo]

From a sentimental perspective, I'm indifferent/conflicted. On one hand, another season with them on the Canucks vs in Sweden means adding another 40 points or so towards their HHOF push. Another season as captain for Hank. Probably 70+ more games. At the same time, would hate to see them scapegoated in any way for what is sure to be another failed season next year. Could it be better for their legacy to see them retire as somewhat useful players than to go through a Andrew Ference type season where Henrik gets scratched for f***ing Nic Dowd? Or worse; having a veteran loving coach scratch a deserving kid like Gaudette (or god forbid, Pettersson) instead of his 38 year old captain. I'm not sure. That question becomes totally different though if they're willing to sign somewhere else if they don't get a reasonable offer from here. That would suck.

As far as icing a reasonable roster; if they want to play, they should be back. Scale their minutes back slightly more than they have been this year, and use them in the role that Sam Gagner should be in. Henrik can still dish and Daniel is probably the third best goal scorer on the team if Vanek doesn't return.

xxx - Horvat - Boeser
Baertschi - Pettersson - Eriksson
Gaunce - Sutter - Virtanen
Sedin - Sedin - Gagner
Dowd/Gaudette

Between inevitable injuries/issues (would bet that one of the two young centers starts in the AHL) there is room for them. Turf Granlund. Ideally waive Gagner too but that just won't happen.

Of course, given how everything about this team blows; they'll probably sign extremely reasonable deals with a upcoming team that could use veterans like NJ in the offseason, while we throw a boatload at Evander Kane and name Del Zotto captain.

 

[iceburg]

The thing that this team needs more than anything else is to be able to look forward. When things are this bad, there is only hope. As much as the Sedins deserve enormous respect for their performances, loyalty to the fanbase and city, and being outstanding citizens, they no longer are part of the hope for the future. Even if they are capable of adding 50 points each next year, IMO this team and its fanbase will have a hard time looking forward while they're in the line-up.
Sadly, I would not like them to be re-signed.

 

[vancityluongo]

The thing that this team needs more than anything else is to be able to look forward. When things are this bad, there is only hope. As much as the Sedin's deserve enormous respect for their performances, loyalty to the fanbase and city, and being outstanding citizens, they no longer are part of the hope for the future. Even if they are capable of adding 50 points each next year, IMO this team and its fanbase will have a hard time looking forward while they're in the line-up.
Sadly, I would not like them to be re-signed.

It's appealing to think that the Sedins would be replaced by Dahlen-Pettersson but the firmer is probably going to be in the AHL regardless and if the latter can't be clearly miles better than a 38 year old Henrik Sedin (and every other forward on the roster named Brock or Bo) there are some huge concerns. The Sedins would have a marginal impact on the fate of either of those two. Their replacements in the lineup vs not having them would be Nic Dowd and Reid Boucher.

If those two give the fanbase hope while the Sedins are playing in the NHL with a different team, maybe that's what we deserve.

 

[iceburg]

It's appealing to think that the Sedins would be replaced by Dahlen-Pettersson but the firmer is probably going to be in the AHL regardless and if the latter can't be clearly miles better than a 38 year old Henrik Sedin (and every other forward on the roster named Brock or Bo) there are some huge concerns. The Sedins would have a marginal impact on the fate of either of those two. Their replacements in the lineup vs not having them would be Nic Dowd and Reid Boucher.

If those two give the fanbase hope while the Sedins are playing in the NHL with a different team, maybe that's what we deserve.

I think it has very little to do with what actually happens next year from a competitiveness standpoint. Whether it's Pettersson or Dowd that is taking a Sedin roster spot next season is not as relevant to me as the fact that we will be looking towards something, a line-up consisting of youth and skill that has a chance to be competitive and exciting to watch. In such a transition patience is very important. So, whether it happens next year, the year after, or 20/21 isn't critical, as long as we can see that vision being realized step by step. And the first step in moving forward is letting go of the past.

 

[vancityluongo]

I think it has very little to do with what actually happens next year from a competitiveness standpoint. Whether it's Pettersson or Dowd that is taking the Sedin's roster spot next season is not as relevant to me as the fact that we will be looking towards something, a line-up consisting of youth and skill that has a chance to be competitive and exciting to watch. In such a transition patience is very important. So, whether it happens next year, the year after, or 20/21 isn't critical, as long as we can see that vision being realized step by step. And the first step in moving forward is letting go of the past.

Again, sign me up if there is a tangible difference in the "speed, youth and skill" being iced. If it is just a narrative but the actual replacements are Nic Dowd and Thomas Vanek, I have no interest in that.

The Sedins have unquestionably lost speed, and even as one of their biggest supporters I will admit that there is probably a decent argument to be made that a smart GM could very effectively replace them in the lineup. But the Canucks are not a smart team. Speed in and of itself is not more useful than having players that can run a powerplay, transition the puck effectively east-west and provide leadership on and off the ice. Is anyone willing to argue that Jake Virtanen is a more useful player than Henrik Sedin? Do we really need Daniel out of the lineup so a much faster, younger player like Griffen Molino has a real shot at the roster?

If the decision to keep the Sedins or not is boiled down to being based on narratives of looking forward; pair Pettersson with one of the Sedins on the road and have him live with the other. Make as many allusions as necessary to Lemieux-Crosby. If we draft another Swede (Dahlin, but more likely Boqvist) and they end up making the team, do the same. Or do that with Juolevi. The future narrative is even better if you can add a generational continuity/transitioning narrative in there too.

 

[iceburg]

Again, sign me up if there is a tangible difference in the "speed, youth and skill" being iced. If it is just a narrative but the actual replacements are Nic Dowd and Thomas Vanek, I have no interest in that.

The Sedins have unquestionably lost speed, and even as one of their biggest supporters I will admit that there is probably a decent argument to be made that a smart GM could very effectively replace them in the lineup. But the Canucks are not a smart team. Speed in and of itself is not more useful than having players that can run a powerplay, transition the puck effectively east-west and provide leadership on and off the ice. Is anyone willing to argue that Jake Virtanen is a more useful player than Henrik Sedin? Do we really need Daniel out of the lineup so a much faster, younger player like Griffen Molino has a real shot at the roster?

If the decision to keep the Sedins or not is boiled down to being based on narratives of looking forward; pair Pettersson with one of the Sedins on the road and have him live with the other. Make as many allusions as necessary to Lemieux-Crosby. If we draft another Swede (Dahlin, but more likely Boqvist) and they end up making the team, do the same. Or do that with Juolevi. The future narrative is even better if you can add a generational continuity/transitioning narrative in there too.

I understand and appreciate your perspective. It's just not mine. Cutting the cord would be highly cathartic. Again, this is not really about performance, though there is a strong argument for them to retire based on performance and that a year in the SHL would be a good way to round out phenomenal professional careers. The Lemieux-Crosby Part Deux doesn't do it for me.

 

[cc]

I voted yes. they are still effective on the powerplay and can help mentor younger players on and off the ice.

 

[vancityluongo]

I understand and appreciate your perspective. It's just not mine. Cutting the cord would be highly cathartic. Again, this is not really about performance, though there is a strong argument for them to retire based on performance and that a year in the SHL would be a good way to round out phenomenal professional careers. The Lemieux-Crosby Part Deux doesn't do it for me.

Fair enough. I do see that perspective as well. Naslund was still a contributing NHL player when he left for the Rangers but the team decided to do a culture reset under a new GM and felt that was the right transition time. Legacy wise, I think it also made a lot of sense to not squeeze every last game out of him as a Canuck. The Sedins have more mileage on them at this point, so the same holds true for them. It's a very defensible position to do a clean walk away if the Sedins are amicable to playing in the SHL next year.