Disappointed, Surprised and Annoyed

[Redder Winger]

They gave up on them because it’s the smart thing to do. They are players that are still young enough to be interesting and valuable to contenders, enabling us to acquire picks in the top 3-4 rounds, but they’re also players that it has become obvious we can’t build around.

Moving some veterans wouldn’t be bad, and I think we will eventually. But what do we get for Kronwall? A 6th? For Helm a late round pick if we don’t retain?

Gotta play the value/worth game and Holland is doing alright at it so far. The veterans still have value to us as mentors and ensuring the legacy of the winning years sticks around as long as possible. Their worth on the market is low.
The value of Tatar to us is low. He’ll score goals but he won’t be the difference between a playoff team or a bottom 10 team and wing is our strongest position. His worth on the market was apparently great. See what I’m getting at?

What mentors?
Outside of Zetterberg, who is really a mentor?

Can we not parrot every dumb thing that comes out of Holland's mouth?

Next, we can talk about preserving Detroit's winning culture.

And yeah, I take a sixth all day for Darren Helm.
Or a fifth for Howard.

 

[Redder Winger]

Ken Holland needs a change of scenery.
So do Red Wings fans.

 

[HIFE]

...Gotta play the value/worth game and Holland is doing alright at it so far. The veterans still have value to us as mentors and ensuring the legacy of the winning years sticks around as long as possible. Their worth on the market is low...

Holland is doing alright at the value/worth game? I think he's fouled out. We currently have 12 players 28 or older. How much veteran presence do we really need? Cut that by a third and we'd still have more than enough.

 

[kliq]

That's why you don't wait until deadline day of the last year of his contract to trade him.
1) You could have moved him last year.
People argued that no, he'll be worth more next year. But guess what. Green's goal scoring disappeared, even if his point production stayed OK.
2) You could have moved him at the draft or at any point during the season.
Before, for example, the wheels fell off and things went sour in Ottawa. Before, for example, the New York Rangers decided they're selling everything.

All those people who were so certain of themselves in saying "you get best value at the deadline for because of cap space" ignored two salient facts.
1) People can get hurt (which is exactly what happened.
2) Who gives a **** about salary cap when you can retain so much on a UFA?

That's also why people shouldn't make excuses for Holland when he gives NTCs and NMCs.
Whenever he does this, people say, "Oh well, it hardly matters anyway."

Well, it does matter. We saw why today.

Who ever the GM is next year, I hope they've learned a lesson. I hope they start moving Daley at the deadline and not waiting until the final year of his deal.
Same **** with Helm, Ericsson and whatever old guy might have 1/2 an ounce of value.

But if said GM is Holland, I don't expect him to hear it. He's a yes man in a town where the media are a bunch of lemmings.

I've noticed you saying this a lot lately. Who specifically are you referring to? I dont live in Detroit, so I'm not to familiar with the Deroit media. The only media I really know are 97.1 and Khan. If you dont want "lemmings" I recommend listening to Mike Velenti, I promise you he is no lemming lol.

 

[kliq]

Holland is doing alright at the value/worth game? I think he's fouled out. We currently have 12 players 28 or older. How much veteran presence do we really need? Cut that by a third and we'd still have more than enough.

Agreed, unless you are a contender there is really no need to have that many vets playing for you. I understand wanting to have a veteran presence on your team, but we do have a tendency of going overboard.

 

[Redder Winger]

I've noticed you saying this a lot lately. Who specifically are you referring to? I dont live in Detroit, so I'm not to familiar with the Deroit media. The only media I really know are 97.1 and Khan. If you dont want "lemmings" I recommend listening to Mike Velenti, I promise you he is no lemming lol.

St. James.
Khan.
Kulfan.
Custance.

I would welcome Valenti if he knew anything about hockey.

 

[Pavels Dog]

Holland is doing alright at the value/worth game? I think he's fouled out. We currently have 12 players 28 or older. How much veteran presence do we really need? Cut that by a third and we'd still have more than enough.

So essentially half the roster is younger than 28? Sounds alright, and that will increase with Ras, Cholo, Hronek etc taking spots soon.

What mentors?
Outside of Zetterberg, who is really a mentor?

Can we not parrot every dumb thing that comes out of Holland's mouth?

Next, we can talk about preserving Detroit's winning culture.

And yeah, I take a sixth all day for Darren Helm.
Or a fifth for Howard.

Larkin has been doing offseason training with Glendening for one. Other kids have spoken highly of Abby and Kronwall and others. I don’t think E has an A for nothing. You don’t understand real life I think. Z can’t spend summers in the gym with all youngsters. Not everyone can sit next to him in the lockerroom. Mentorship is much more than having 1 veteran that you can look at, it’s about actually spending time with them learning their routines, their workouts, how they prepare and carry themselves.

 

[kliq]

St. James.
Khan.
Kulfan.
Custance.

I would welcome Valenti if he knew anything about hockey.

He really doesnt lol.

 

[kliq]

So essentially half the roster is younger than 28? Sounds alright, and that will increase with Ras, Cholo, Hronek etc taking spots soon.

Larkin has been doing offseason training with Glendening for one. Other kids have spoken highly of Abby and Kronwall and others. I don’t think E has an A for nothing. You don’t understand real life I think. Z can’t spend summers in the gym with all youngsters. Not everyone can sit next to him in the lockerroom. Mentorship is much more than having 1 veteran that you can look at, it’s about actually spending time with them learning their routines, their workouts, how they prepare and carry themselves.

100% agree with this. The problem is Holland takes this to an extreme, then as a result the anti Holland fans take it to the other extreme and make it sound like vets are worthless. Like almost anything in life, the truth/reality lays somewhere in the middle.

 

[Claypool]

I agree our expectations should be low but in the end only a single meaningful trade (I will not count Mrazek) is disappointing.

There's going to be trades at the draft and next season. Holland alluded to this. Nyquist, Glenda, etc. are still out the door. Only a matter of when at this point.

 

[14ari13]

I know it is a fun narrative, but it is worth noting that the most important player in the Chicago dynasty at least in my opinion is a 2nd round draft pick.

I forgot Tampa and Toronto.

I basically think that Mrazek could have become that core player for us.

I think the picks and prospects are way overrated on this board.

 

[Claypool]

I basically think that Mrazek could have become that core player for us.

He just turned 26 and will be looking for a long-term deal. The Red Wings could lose him next year for nothing (the exact same thing people are complaining with about Green right now).

 

[Lampedampe]

But all he is now is cap space. You can switch him out for any other UFA.
The opportunity to turn him into anything else is gone.

That's just an assumption on your side though.

It will all depend on what kind of a contract Holland can sign him to. Ofcourse I agree that signing green to like a 4-5 year deal at 5m+ would be to our disadvantage and we're better staying away from that.

 

[lomekian]

What mentors?
Outside of Zetterberg, who is really a mentor?

Can we not parrot every dumb thing that comes out of Holland's mouth?

Next, we can talk about preserving Detroit's winning culture.

And yeah, I take a sixth all day for Darren Helm.
Or a fifth for Howard.

Helm is playing at a level that makes him worth more then that, and if you can't get anything more there is no merit in trading him. It's not like he is a player without worth to us...

Selling off pieces when rebuilding is fine, but only if you get something substantial in return. Otherwise you are just weakening the team, future bargaining positions and the ability to sell off other pieces for better returns for no real benefit.

Are Abby and Helm overpaid? A bit. Do we need the salary space right now? Only if we have a shot at Tavares...in which case it's worth selling for its own sake

 

[lomekian]

As for Green, massive disappointment that there wasn't a buyer, but no one could have foreseen him getting an injury the week before TDL AND McD and Karlsson suddenly being on the block.

He went from undisputed number one TDL option on D to being a risky 3rd choice.

Hopefully we can up him for another couple and play the same game next year....

 

[ShelbyZ]

He really doesnt lol.

Maybe not for the Red Wings, but one day Valenti went in detail about how he used to be an Islanders fan and was pretty knowledgeable on Spano and Milburys failings. I was kind of impressed.

Otherwise the 1% of the day 97.1 dedicates to hockey is trash and usually just them rehashing the same tired narratives about Holland and co. and poor mistreated AA we hear from NHL18 GM posters on the boards.

 

[Lil Sebastian Cossa]

I forgot Tampa and Toronto.

I basically think that Mrazek could have become that core player for us.

I think the picks and prospects are way overrated on this board.

He was here in a substantial capacity for four years. I don’t think it was ever happening here.

For a goalie to be a core guy, he’s got to be on the shortlist for the Vezina every year. Not for one half a season. He’s got to be a consistent force that leads you to wins and gives you a huge advantage just by having him play game to game. Not go on streaks

 

[Flowah]

I bet you any playoff team would have gave a 3rd round pick for mike green. He’s worth a late 1st imo. Yes I guess the injury hurt but like someone said you could have made it conditional in order to ensure that a team would only pay if he was healthy. I think Kenny wanted either a late 1st or a 2nd and a good prospect and the teams that he wanted to go to didn’t wanna pay that price. I also think if the leafs got McDonough we’d have Tampa’s first right now

But we couldn't trade him to any playoff team because he had an NTC. That part is definitely on Holland.

However, given all those constraints, given his injury, given the trade market, I'm not surprised we couldn't move him. Just disappointed.

 

[TheMule93]

Holland said in the press conference that the NTC didn't affect trade options

What should have been done is trade green for a conditional pick. If he plays x amount games in regular season or playoffs, we get a first rounder. If he doesn't play that we get a 7th rounder.

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

Surprised about Tatar deal

Disappinted about no Green deal

Annoyed about Mrazek situation

 

[TCNorthstars]

Ken Holland needs a change of scenery.
So do Red Wings fans.

Don't let the door hit ya on the way out!

 

[BinCookin]

ste

That's why you don't wait until deadline day of the last year of his contract to trade him.
1) You could have moved him last year.
People argued that no, he'll be worth more next year. But guess what. Green's goal scoring disappeared, even if his point production stayed OK.
2) You could have moved him at the draft or at any point during the season.
Before, for example, the wheels fell off and things went sour in Ottawa. Before, for example, the New York Rangers decided they're selling everything.

All those people who were so certain of themselves in saying "you get best value at the deadline for because of cap space" ignored two salient facts.
1) People can get hurt (which is exactly what happened.
2) Who gives a **** about salary cap when you can retain so much on a UFA?

That's also why people shouldn't make excuses for Holland when he gives NTCs and NMCs.
Whenever he does this, people say, "Oh well, it hardly matters anyway."

Well, it does matter. We saw why today.

Who ever the GM is next year, I hope they've learned a lesson. I hope they start moving Daley at the deadline and not waiting until the final year of his deal.
Same **** with Helm, Ericsson and whatever old guy might have 1/2 an ounce of value.

But if said GM is Holland, I don't expect him to hear it. He's a yes man in a town where the media are a bunch of lemmings.

You are leaving out the most important factor..
Green is 6M. Capspace is actually calculated daily. this means if you have some room early on... as the season moves forward you get more room by the deadline.
teams wait because taking on Green for 1/4 of the season... actually costs them less.

this is why expensive players are traded at the deadline... and NOt before!!

 

[cjm502]

If it was more wise to move a player a month before the deadline wouldn't every team be moving their players a month before the deadline?

 

[Zetterberg4Captain]

If players were only ever traded at 1459hrs on deadline day, wouldn' we stop seeing trades before the before draft, at the draft, before the season or during the season?

 

[newfy]

Man cant help but think how awesome a first for Green would've been after that Tatar deal. Going into a draft with 3 firsts woulda been wild, having 2 firsts is pretty wild actually. Gonna be a fun draft with potential to move around quite a bit