Player Discussion David Backes II

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BNHL

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this will decide itself but I'm comfortable with having this type of guy signed. backes isn't signed until 40 and honestly ive listed to 100s of these guys give their interviews about why they retire

the hof guys... usually go out on their own terms... they usually say it became difficult to train... difficult to recover from injuries... difficult to be away from their families.

a lot of guys walk away from the game while they are still very effective players... a lot of other guys get an injury in their last year or two and just feel its not worth battling through it.

I try to show a list of players that are well known for their love of the game... their dedication to training... and I try to show a list of players who have a size advantage and play a power style game throughout their career

my point is that big guys who are 30 goal scorers as they reach 30... often continue to 35... continue as they near 40... and in most cases its their own decision to retire. most of these guys are still top 6 players as they retire... still valued... still earning top contracts

I think that's the relevant argument... people are worried backes will be overpaid... that he will fall off a cliff.

we can point to guys like cam neely... eric Lindros... and show that they didn't have successful careers past 30... but these guys play like a bull in a china shop. the guys I use as my comparables are big power guys but don't run over someone every single shift

we must further remember backes is almost equally prized for his defense as his offense. in this instance hes a lot like a marian hossa I think. hossa is being used to put value onto a third line now. it effects his goal scoring but not his overall value to a team.

I think its reasonable that backes has a future like that. in a couple years who knows what the bruins lineup will be... but its reasonable to wonder if krecji will be replaced by a younger faster offensive wizard? and Bergeron will lose a step soon...losing a step should hurt his offense just given the way he scores his points...

it might become very useful to us to have a bigger body shut down guy in the third pairing helping a couple kids break into the team

this is how management is playing the odds when they sign backes at his age... with his style... with his skills and strengths.

fans get too uptight over everyone needing to score highlight goals to be a good player. in real nhl a lot of value is given to defense... grit... leadership... 2-way play

backes still have the ability to be over a 40 point guy, hes on pace for that this year... he did that last year... its not like he kills a line being put out there with krecji or Bergeron. I think he will be even more valuable as we find younger players to play in those spots. I think his best value will come on the 3rd line protecting and developing our kids.

I'm very ok with this signing... and for the record I do expect him to continue to be a 20 goal scorer until the end of his contract. if I'm wrong feel free to throw this into my face. ill eat crow if I am proven wrong.

but the historical evidence I find shows its a good gamble and one I'm glad the team made

I disagree with almost everything here. The people on the list represent a small fraction of total NHL players. The gamble is completely lopsided that he won't be an NHL player for a contender by 36. Probably when Backes hits 36,there will be about 10 forwards left who entered the league when he did,mostly elite,or role players.
 

CDJ

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No one takes leadership from a bad player. Not saying Backes is bad,I'd say he's completely mediocre. If he were great,players would naturally respect him more. For me,his leadership quality is irrelevant. I surely prefer character players,but I'd take Seguin,the little maggot,over Backes.

If Backes is mediocre then what was Shawn Thornton? Or Chris Kelly?


Pretty gd good leaders if you ask me


Very bold move to take seguin over Backes though ;)
 

RedeyeRocketeer

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I wasn't sure what you were inferring, to be honest. The guys you mentioned are willing to play dirty and grind to win. They're obviously superior skill-wise to Backes, but Backes isn't supposed to be the most skilled player on the team. I could say 'Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, Pastrnak - trenches' and it'd be equally devoid of meaning.

If Backes wasn't on the team, our second choice RW all year would've been Czarnik, Nash, Hayes or Heinen. You think that's playoff material? That's worthy of extreme confidence? Sweeney would've been thrown under the bus if he iced that team.

The cap space would've been nice, sure. But again - question marks. Maybe we make a good deal, maybe we don't. Meanwhile, another year has passed and the Bruins have missed the playoffs again. There was clearly intense pressure from ownership to get back into the playoffs this year. Saving cap space for a few expansion deals and playing the kids was never, ever going to cut it.

The finer details of his contract and performance are always going to subject to debate. But at least admit that you can see why they did it.

What do you see the Czarnik stat line being after 70-75 games on Bergy's wing? Am I being overly optimistic with 14/22/36?

So then you tell me if you see the difference being worth what we're getting from the upgrade to Backes. And obviously Czarnik or anyone is a year fix till my proposed trades before expansion. We also have a glut of young wingers about to compete for spots.
 

DrJustice

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I love what Backes bring to the table overall, but at this point of the season I think the Bruins need to get him going offensively given the loss of Spooner. I'd try slotting him in on the 3C role and see if that can spark him with a couple of good offensive weapons.

Marchand-Bergeron-Stafford
Beleskey/Cehlarik-Krejci-Pastrnak
Vatrano-Backes-Czarnik
Beleskey/Schaller-Moore-Nash
 

RedeyeRocketeer

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Put it in the PGT, but I think this is really it's home:

t2Deb67.jpg
 

DrJustice

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You conveniently leave out the Stafford vs Backes post though.

But my suggestion was that Backes at 6m vs the proposed output by just about anyone else named is how I'd spend that money. That's just me.

At least with Backes, if he isn't scoring goals he at least is contributing towards wins with physical play and leadership. Stafford is the type of player that can chip in offensively, but doesn't show up much in other parts of the game (at least from what I have seen) Plus the versatility to fill in at center if we have an injury is a big plus. I get your argument, but it's not like he's Jimmy Hayes or Matt Beleskey out there. At least I notice Backes.

If come playoff time he hasn't turned it on offensively, and this cold stretch goes on than that will change my mind. But it hasn't happened yet.
 

Over the volcano

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You conveniently leave out the Stafford vs Backes post though.

But my suggestion was that Backes at 6m vs the proposed output by just about anyone else named is how I'd spend that money. That's just me.
Wasn't that a couple days ago?
Maybe we could just stop with the shell game of other options - czarnik, no stafford, no Crosby and Malkin, no nobody at all, no anyone else... Give it a rest man.
 

GordonHowe

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Tardy to the party, and haven't read the thread.

I like David Backes. A lot. He's a Bruin through & through.

Yes, he could score more. Yes, the numbers & term are not perfect (what is?)

What #42 brings relative to leadership, work ethic, grit, banging play & even fighting is priceless.

Bag the fancy stats, Jr. The Bruins are lucky to have David Backes.
 

b in vancouver

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I know it would be great if he produced more but he's not a player that's bothered me that he hasn't lit it up this year. I find him really effective and is the only forward out there constantly finishing his checks. Would I like 10 more points - yep. But I really like this signing - money and term. The Bruins need him on their team.
 

CDJ

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Do you think getting pasted by a 225 lb man doesn't wear the opposition down and/or force panic mistakes? Or swing momentum?


For a guy that watched years of lucic.....


There's more to the game than points. If there wasn't ribeiro would have made a lot more money in his career

Right off the top of my head he mugged kessel and fought Benn and set the tones for those games w/o needing to get on the board (he may have in those games, but even if he hadn't the presence was there). He brings a snarl to the top 6 that was desperately lacking
 
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Alberta_OReilly_Fan

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Nov 26, 2006
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I have no idea anymore how body checks help you win anything.

check how many teams don't dress physical players... tell their guys don't hit anyone... it might help clue you in

but even if it doesn't, trust me 30 nhl coaches understand it and 720 nhl players understand it... its difficult to do... so they don't do it every single shift but trust me they will continue to understand how it helps them win and will continue to do it even though it is exhausting and can hurt
 

ashnathan

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Kinda feel like hes gone into his shell a bit as the season has gone on. Looks to me like hes lacking confidence big time, barely seem him taking any shots on the net, and the guy can seriously score!
 

BNHL

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check how many teams don't dress physical players... tell their guys don't hit anyone... it might help clue you in

but even if it doesn't, trust me 30 nhl coaches understand it and 720 nhl players understand it... its difficult to do... so they don't do it every single shift but trust me they will continue to understand how it helps them win and will continue to do it even though it is exhausting and can hurt

The more you talk the less I trust. Physical play? Yes. Bodychecks? Once in awhile.

Top 5 hitting teams-LA-Arizona-Anaheim-Ottawa-Edm. Bottom 5-Chicago-Minn-Carolina-Van-Columbus.
 

BNHL

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Do you think getting pasted by a 225 lb man doesn't wear the opposition down and/or force panic mistakes? Or swing momentum?


For a guy that watched years of lucic.....


There's more to the game than points. If there wasn't ribeiro would have made a lot more money in his career

Right off the top of my head he mugged kessel and fought Benn and set the tones for those games w/o needing to get on the board (he may have in those games, but even if he hadn't the presence was there). He brings a snarl to the top 6 that was desperately lacking

I think if you keep pounding the same player,you might force a mistake and you might wear him down. Conversely,the hitting game can be an issue when teams employ quick transitions and speed,where you are now a step behind,you get worn out and injured yourself,or in the new pacifist NHL,get a penalty. I loved the hitting game,now question it's contribution to wins,but I do not question the value of a physical game.
 

Fenian24

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Tardy to the party, and haven't read the thread.

I like David Backes. A lot. He's a Bruin through & through.

Yes, he could score more. Yes, the numbers & term are not perfect (what is?)

What #42 brings relative to leadership, work ethic, grit, banging play & even fighting is priceless.

Bag the fancy stats, Jr. The Bruins are lucky to have David Backes.

:handclap:
I'll take 40 points from David Backes with everything he brings than 60 from Jaromir Jagr or Alex Semin.
 
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Fenian24

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check how many teams don't dress physical players... tell their guys don't hit anyone... it might help clue you in

but even if it doesn't, trust me 30 nhl coaches understand it and 720 nhl players understand it... its difficult to do... so they don't do it every single shift but trust me they will continue to understand how it helps them win and will continue to do it even though it is exhausting and can hurt

Yes but analytic people who think they know so much more about the game than people who play it say hitting doesn't matter, reinforcing my belief that analytics are pretty much a joke.

Florida and Arizona committed themselves to analytics this year, how's that working out for them?

Would be nice if the analytic people who don't watch the games or have never played would go back to analyzing baseball. You can see the massive success the king of analytics Billy Beane has had :sarcasm:
 

RedeyeRocketeer

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uhhh, Arizona has spent 58m in real dollars this year. Their GM's plan has nothing to do with winning in 2017. You don't have to look much further than how much cap garbage and $ retained they've done. He's building through the draft. And so far his trades have been amazing.

Florida has had a step back, no doubt.

Btw how did we even get on the topic of advanced stats as it related to David Backes? Screw advanced stats, I'd be quite happy with him having good "real" stats.
 
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Over the volcano

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It's pretty obvious that he's dragging down his line's production since he was paired with Bergeron and Marchand. :laugh:

Hitting stats correlate with puck possession. You don't have the puck you hit more. Atleast thats my hypothesis.
Think that's true for a team as a whole, but when looking at individual variations among teammates on the same team I don't think it applies. IMO its much more about fitting a role on a line or as a line. Backes' physical presence, and willingness to play on top of the opponents crease is a perfect compliment to the Bergeron and Marchand show.


https://puckalytics.com/#/SuperWOWY...&team=3&oppteam=0&pid1=416&pid2=1215&pid3=572
 
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NDiesel

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I have no idea anymore how body checks help you win anything.

Have you ever played hockey? I can assure you whether it's making the player more panicked with the puck after taking constant body checks all night or pumping up the team with a big hit, both definitely play a hand in helping you win.
 
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