Player Discussion David Backes II

[Jean_Jacket41]

Where were you for the last 10 games before Ottawa on Monday?

Under a rock or watching Habs games and celebrating their fraud 6 games winning streak...

 

[FRANK CANNON]

Meh, he's a 40 point guy who fights a little bit.

I'm happy with him, but then I didn't expect Mark Messier.

 

[TheBigBadB]

Backes doesn't have much puck presence. He is good at mucking, checking, and getting a shot off. But holding onto the puck looking for a play or just carrying the puck on his stick up the ice is not his game. So he looks like he doesn't do much on the ice since he is not around the puck much.

 

[Bruin4Life]

For every Hossa there are 300 who are out of the league by 33,never mind scoring 20. Plus Hossa peaked at 45 goals and now scores at 50-60% of that. By 32 he was settling in at about 65-70% of his peak. Translate that to Backes.

300 players is a pretty nice number. Where did you pull that number from? 6 mil is no longer a top tier number when top end players are making close to 10. Those days are over. Move on with your life and find some happiness.

I love when people throw out statistics You never know what a player will do at a certain age. People said Charas contract would be abysmal by year 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and now 2018. Realistically, he is still worth the money.

 

[CDJ]

According to many Chara should have retired 2 years ago


And here we are standing currently as a projected playoff team with Chara once again being the bonafide #1

Everything is a case by case basis. Backes' game has never really been predicated on speed- he's never needed it to be effective. Sure he'll have wear and tear from the physical play...but I don't think it will diminish his game all that much. The last year of that deal may be ugly but I think it should be fine for the most part. It's a calculated overpay, which is how you have to treat UFA if you plan on adding an established talent

 

[BNHL]

300 players is a pretty nice number. Where did you pull that number from? 6 mil is no longer a top tier number when top end players are making close to 10. Those days are over. Move on with your life and find some happiness.

I love when people throw out statistics You never know what a player will do at a certain age. People said Charas contract would be abysmal by year 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016, 2017 and now 2018. Realistically, he is still worth the money.

The statistics are overwhelming. Anyone is foolish to buck it unless the player has been elite. Chara is not what he was,offensively he might be 60% of what he was

http://www.quanthockey.com/Distributions/RetireeAgeDistribution.php
http://www.sbnation.com/nhl/2014/3/13/5500522/nhl-scoring-stats-rates-age-analysis

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

Where were you for the last 10 games before Ottawa on Monday?

I don't know what to tell you guys, but I didn't think he played all that great leading up to this game either.

Rangers game he did nothing.

Devils game he got that assist, watch it: https://www.nhl.com/video/carlos-goal-on-fortunate-bounce/t-283378832/c-50001603

You want me to say something about that? I guess yay Bergy for being there?

He scores the nice one in the Zona game: https://www.nhl.com/video/backes-quick-one-timer-finds-net/t-283371888/c-49836503 which if you watched that game frankly he looked entirely undangerous. That one shot wound up being his only shot, but at this point I'll take any goal he can get.

In the 6 goal game vs Dallas again I found him nearly invisible. And not that surprising again in that game he put one puck on the net. Here's his assist btw: https://www.nhl.com/video/krejcis-terrific-deflection/t-283369360/c-49771803


So are you really looking at an impressive player in that stretch? Be honest here, what am I looking at? He's barely shot, he's certainly not controlled the pace, he got that one nice goal and managed to get there on 2 A's by the work of Krug and Bergy. I've got exactly zero good to say about his play going back to the Dallas game. I wasn't in town for the Cali games, didnt' see them.

 

[Over the volcano]

I don't know what to tell you guys, but I didn't think he played all that great leading up to this game either.

Rangers game he did nothing.

Devils game he got that assist, watch it: https://www.nhl.com/video/carlos-goal-on-fortunate-bounce/t-283378832/c-50001603

You want me to say something about that? I guess yay Bergy for being there?

He scores the nice one in the Zona game: https://www.nhl.com/video/backes-quick-one-timer-finds-net/t-283371888/c-49836503 which if you watched that game frankly he looked entirely undangerous. That one shot wound up being his only shot, but at this point I'll take any goal he can get.

In the 6 goal game vs Dallas again I found him nearly invisible. And not that surprising again in that game he put one puck on the net. Here's his assist btw: https://www.nhl.com/video/krejcis-terrific-deflection/t-283369360/c-49771803


So are you really looking at an impressive player in that stretch? Be honest here, what am I looking at? He's barely shot, he's certainly not controlled the pace, he got that one nice goal and managed to get there on 2 A's by the work of Krug and Bergy. I've got exactly zero good to say about his play going back to the Dallas game. I wasn't in town for the Cali games, didnt' see them.

So maybe you wouldn't be the FIRST person to credit him when he steps up then. . .

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

Backes doesn't have much puck presence. He is good at mucking, checking, and getting a shot off. But holding onto the puck looking for a play or just carrying the puck on his stick up the ice is not his game. So he looks like he doesn't do much on the ice since he is not around the puck much.

Good thing. That's not is asked to him playing with Marchand-Bergy or Krejci.

Do the dirty thing and pop 20ish.

 

[Jean_Jacket41]

According to many Chara should have retired 2 years ago


And here we are standing currently as a projected playoff team with Chara once again being the bonafide #1

Everything is a case by case basis. Backes' game has never really been predicated on speed- he's never needed it to be effective. Sure he'll have wear and tear from the physical play...but I don't think it will diminish his game all that much. The last year of that deal may be ugly but I think it should be fine for the most part. It's a calculated overpay, which is how you have to treat UFA if you plan on adding an established talent

I would give Chara 1y deals as long as he wants to play. Even if only as a #5 when he'll be 52...

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

So maybe you wouldn't be the FIRST person to credit him when he steps up then. . .

No I would. I just haven't seen it. David Backes does not EVER carry the play. He's never looked dangerous with the puck on his stick to me. And unlike power forwards banging home lots of rebounds and getting into the dirty places on the ice, he's just not putting a lot of rubber on the net of late. For a guy supposedly so big and so strong in Backes, Loui spent way more time in the dirty areas banging in those rebounds for goals. You can't tell me I'm wrong there.

 

[KrejciMVP]

IMO for Backes to be effective he needs 2 wings around him like Marchand and Pasta. He can then play center and set them up. Not saying I'd do this but this would make Backes a better contributor.

Running around on Krejcis and Bergy's wing is a waste of the 6 mill we pay. He's too slow

 

[CDJ]

Backes gets to the front of the net and dirty areas for screens more than anybody else on the team. That's not to say Loui wasn't great in that regard but to act like Backes doesn't do it is completely disingenuous


This is what I mean when I say base the criticism in reality. Hes not producing enough for your liking- sure, totally reasonable take although I'd argue this is the player they signed. But to act like he doesn't plant his ass in front of the goalie nonstop...I mean....cmon

 

[Over the volcano]

No I would. I just haven't seen it. David Backes does not EVER carry the play. He's never looked dangerous with the puck on his stick to me. And unlike power forwards banging home lots of rebounds and getting into the dirty places on the ice, he's just not putting a lot of rubber on the net of late. For a guy supposedly so big and so strong in Backes, Loui spent way more time in the dirty areas banging in those rebounds for goals. You can't tell me I'm wrong there.

You're all kinds of wrong all over there.

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

Shot counts gentlemen. In the period where you say Backes is getting all this rubber on goalies pads in close, the stats just don't tell that story. He's hardly shooting at all, which is baffling.

 

[DKH]

I know many fans don't like fighting or hitting but for the 20 % of us that do Backes is the Bruins most physical and best body checker

He's a throwback and that's probably one of the reasons why he's not appreciated and I get it I play fantasy sports

 

[CDJ]

Shot counts gentlemen. In the period where you say Backes is getting all this rubber on goalies pads in close, the stats just don't tell that story. He's hardly shooting at all, which is baffling.

Shot counts he says

do you watch the games? Do you not see him planting his wide ass in front of the net? It's pretty damn obvious if you do watch. That's not debatable. He's getting his ass to the net and into the dirty areas. I didn't say he gets a ton of rubber on net but to suggest he is not going to those areas is ignorant at best or your agenda being blatantly obvious at worse. Is loui not getting to the front of the net this year? I mean the production is worse and all of you that criticize Backes say he can't carry the puck so he's gotta be doing the damage from somewhere.... (Loui obviously goes to the dirty areas which we saw even when he wasn't producing well here, as does Backes)

But shot counts

Just like he's not a good 2 way player because he's not a SHTOI leader.


Do you just look at irrelevant numbers that don't tell the whole story and just throw them out there and base things off of that? That's what it honestly seems like when you say things like he isn't a solid 2 way player and doesn't go to the dirty areas


Base. The. Criticism. In. Reality.


ITS NOT HARD. He's not producing to your liking- valid argument. They shouldn't have signed a 32 yr old if they are rebuilding- valid argument. He's not a 2 way player? Year 6 is gonna be awful? He doesn't go to the dirty areas? Laughable

 

[bob27]

IMO for Backes to be effective he needs 2 wings around him like Marchand and Pasta. He can then play center and set them up. Not saying I'd do this but this would make Backes a better contributor.

Running around on Krejcis and Bergy's wing is a waste of the 6 mill we pay. He's too slow

Jimmy Hayes could look like an effective center if his wingers were Marchand and Pastrnak.

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

Nice to see Backes play a signature game last night. 6 Bruin goals, 0 points, 0 shots. That said it's tough to value leadership. Actually no, leadership costs 6m.

 

[Over the volcano]

Nice to see Backes play a signature game last night. 6 Bruin goals, 0 points, 0 shots. That said it's tough to value leadership. Actually no, leadership costs 6m.

Good to see you keep to your word and be "the first guy to credit him when he plays well" . . .

 

[Fenian24]

No I would. I just haven't seen it. David Backes does not EVER carry the play. He's never looked dangerous with the puck on his stick to me. And unlike power forwards banging home lots of rebounds and getting into the dirty places on the ice, he's just not putting a lot of rubber on the net of late. For a guy supposedly so big and so strong in Backes, Loui spent way more time in the dirty areas banging in those rebounds for goals. You can't tell me I'm wrong there.

Oh yes I can. Backes is so much better than Eriksson it's not even fair to compare them, unless you a like soft, ineffective player who only show up in his contract year and then disappears playing with his pals the Sedins.

I get it, you lost your binkie in Loui and they replaced him with somebody who hits, fights and produces at the same level but you don't like him because he is slow and doesn't look dangerous with the puck. Lots of guys who scored their goals in low and of screens and tips don't look "dangerous with the puck" until it's in the net. Because analytics can't quantify intangibles and completely ignores the physical part of hockey a guy like Backes won't be loved by the game sim/never watch the game just the stats Billy Beane crowd. That's fine. Backes will win and Loui will spend years doing what he did here, be hurt, not produce and his fan base will make excuses for him. With the being Loui's last contract I assume he will be bought out before it is over by the Canucks.

Watch a game and then comment.

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

I honestly don't remotely mind that Loui was not brought back. I actually really liked the idea of going young, which is why I was puzzled when they decided to keep going old with names like Liles, Backes, re-upping Quader, etc...

Anyway the reason this song and dance is so familiar is because we JUST did it (relatively speaking).

"I judge players based off of my eyes and I have seen great things. To have people like Kirk basically think the same way in regards to Beleskey gives me confidence in how I feel about him- he has been a much needed acquisition for the Bruins."

link

With regards to Beleskey's deal:
"I for one love it and would be very accepting of it up until 4.25 mill per or so. He didn't pot the 30 he had in 80 games last year but he brought a lot more than I expected to the table in every other aspect of the game"

link


And dozens more like that if you want me to get more. We did this exact dance back then, I was told I knew nothing about player evaluation, he was a great signing, we needed more Bruins like him, and on we went. So do I get even a shred of credit for sticking to my guns back then when it was a pretty minority opinion? Because most of the same bunch in here sang the same song then. Go read how it went, it's incredibly similar to in here right now. link.

Is it not possible to at least discuss the tell-tales signs of an underperforming player and to not see it as an attack on the team? I'm as much a Bruins fan as you. But I know mediocre play when I see it, specially for significant dollars.

 

[CDJ]

Cool, I was wrong about Beleskey. Didn't figure he was going to get hurt and skate in mud, **** happens. If he was the player he was for most of last year I still like the contract

Still doesn't mean you have based your criticisms of Backes in reality. You criticized his contract without knowing it and then doubled down by saying he doesn't go to dirty areas and isn't a good 2 way player.


It's funny really. But I'm sure all of your opinions have been 100% accurate. I definitely can't go back through your post history and pluck some wrong ones out. It's shocking I've made thousands of posts and have been wrong before, wowwee. It doesn't matter though- that is irrelevant as it pertains to this argument. You tried to argue points that have no basis in reality, and then when you failed you have to try and bring up posts about Beleskey from a year ago.




Again, criticize the production. That's fair, I'm fine with it myself for now but it's a fair criticism. Just don't invent **** like you have done throughout the last 2 threads. He is a good 2 way player. He goes to the dirty areas. He does not have a 6 year deal. It is not my fault you don't know how to make points without presenting outright fiction. You can go back however long you want to pluck out my beleskey post and call it wrong, I can go back a day to find one of yours that is factually incorrect. Sticking by your guns is fine- it would appear that you're going to be correct about beleskey seeing as how this year is more or less a lost season for him. I just take umbrage with points of yours that are simply not true. IDK if you remember but I was always in the Loui thread defending him too. We stuck by our guns when he was starting to return to form post concussion and then the following year he broke out (I didn't want to see him brought back for what it cost as I preferred Backes for the needed physicality in the top 6 but that's irrelevant too). I can respect sticking by your guns. I can even respect you sticking by your guns with the opinion that Backes isn't worth it. I just don't like falsehoods used in defense of that. I've said all along the tail end of that deal is gonna probably be ugly and that all UFA deals are overpays so it's not like I fully disagree with some of what you are saying. Your opinion may even end up being correct- maybe he goes scoreless the rest of the season...who really knows? Some of your reasoning is good too- he does have wear and tear, he isnt a good skater, if that contract is questionable now it will only get worse over time. But that doesn't change the fact the contract was 5 years, he goes to the dirty areas, and he's got a damn solid 2 way game.

 

[Bruin4Life]

Nice to see Backes play a signature game last night. 6 Bruin goals, 0 points, 0 shots. That said it's tough to value leadership. Actually no, leadership costs 6m.

I always enjoy reading your positive posts. I'll come back in a few years when you post another

 

[RedeyeRocketeer]

The 6 vs 5 year thing is really the hill you're going to die on CDJ? lol it might as well be the same thing with his current production. 5 years is going to feel like 10.

But in the end if we agree that criticizing the production is fair, then let's just agree on that point and move on. Certainly not hard to criticize him there. Consider me focused on that until he turns it around. And if you're open to the idea that you were wrong about Beleskey, maybe you'll be open to Backes in 2 years. Or maybe I'll be the one who was wrong. I got Marchand wrong 3 years ago, look at him now. But I didn't get Hayes, Beleskey, Rinaldo, Liles, Quader and a host of others wrong. So somewhere in there a sliver of credit would be ayight. I think you get stuff right all the time.