Crosby leapfrogs Lemieux in all-time playoff points

[LeafFever]

Ah, yes, the 80s and early 90s. An era of suffocating defenses and limited 100-pt scores. How easy it is for a, Sidney Crosby to score.

Crosby is great, but people use to high scoring era to take away some of Gretzky and Lmeiux's greatness. Crosby still offensively is not close to Lemeiux regardless of era. At 35 with over 3 years away from the game Lemeiux put up crazy offesive numbers in 2000.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

Relative to era. Not in an absolute sense. Hockey (equipment too) is so much faster and better today. But you still have to consider all eras and make reasonable context adjustments when comparing across eras

The problem with Morenz is that nobody on here really saw him play, so it’s a stretch to rank him ahead of guys like Crosby..

 

[Big McLargehuge]

Oh I thought he was talking all time..

Both worth noting. It's honestly rather ridiculous that Jagr is the only one of the Pens top 5 playoff scorers that ever scored a playoff point for another team. Mario, Sid, & Geno have exclusively played for the Penguins & all of Kevin Stevens' 106 playoff points came with the Pens.

We're lucky fans...especially when you're reminded that Lemieux clipped Rick Kehoe's team record of 19 playoff points in 37 games.

 

[Sentinel]

The History of Hockey forum: "where players of the past are always better than the ones today."

Very knowledgeable posters there, but not the ideal destination if you're interested in objectivity, or yes, common sense.

Like you are a model of objectivity!
Knowledge is far more objective than ignorance, and people who actually know the history of the sport are far more objective than people who think that hockey began in 2008. The former have a basis for it.

 

[Sentinel]

Stick to that section then. Where nothing evolves. Join the real world.

Apparently hockey is the only sport where players never get better.

This isn't the real world. This is "hockey began in 2008" world.

 

[Beau Knows]

Like you are a model of objectivity!
Knowledge is far more objective than ignorance, and people who actually know the history of the sport are far more objective than people who think that hockey began in 2008. The former have a basis for it.

Yes, your claims that Crosby would be "out on a stretcher in Game 1" are very objective. Good thing you came in here and blessed us with your objectivity.

 

[Sentinel]

To those that mock the 50s: you clearly lack the perspective of how hockey changes through eras. Ancient Sakic, Selanne, and Jagr were among the best players in the late 00s. We know how their primes compare to Lemieux's prime. We know how their prime compared to Gretzky's. We know how Gretzky's prime compared to Trottier's. We know how Trottier's prime compared to Esposito's. We know how Esposito's prime compared to aging Howe, who had his first 100 pt. season in 67-68 (as a 40 y.o.). We can judge their skills quite well. Get educated.

 

[Sentinel]

Yes, your claims that Crosby would be "out on a stretcher in Game 1" are very objective. Good thing you came in here and blessed us with your objectivity.

That was a hyperbole, but you make it sound like an impossibility. How many games did Crosby miss in today's vanilla NHL? Now compare his injuries to those regularly sustained in the O6 era.

 

[Beau Knows]

That was a hyperbole, but you make it sound like an impossibility. How many games did Crosby miss in today's vanilla NHL? Now compare his injuries to those regularly sustained in the O6 era.

To those that mock the 50s...

...today's vanilla NHL...

Lol, such objectivity.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

Lol, such objectivity.

I know I'd want him on the jury

 

[bobholly39]

Since the History of Hockey has been brought up, I'll mention that over the last two years, I've noticed that arguments over there have gone from "Let's not give credit to Crosby for things he didn't do" (which is a very fair position) to essentially "Let's find ways to not give Crosby credit for things he did do". For instance, in a recent comparison of Beliveau to Crosby, Sid is dinged because he started in the NHL at age 18.

Sadly, I find that there is an overriding sympathy for O6 teams and more specifically the O6 era. The talent compression argument is something I find totally unconvincing. Yes there were good players in that era, but the notion that it was a league of all-stars just doesn't hold water for me.

You're making baseless generalizations though. HOH isn't one person with one opinion.

You're on the internet. You're going to have a lot of people arguing a lot of different points - and a lot of them will happen to be very biased and sometimes even purposefully trolling. There's a lot of people on the HOH section who are extremely fair and willing to entertain and consider different viewpoints, while also logically arguing when they disagree with something.

No objective person would hold it against Crosby to have started at 18. That's a net positive for him. But that will only matter in comparisons with Beliveau if starting those 3-4 years earlier doesn't also cause Crosby to decline 3-4 years earlier than Beliveau as well as retire 3-4 years earlier. If not that 3-4 years advantage kind of goes away, longevity-wise. So it's looking good - but we're not quite there yet to give Crosby the longevity edge thanks to this early start.

I do agree with your 2nd paragraph. I don't see the 06 era as a league of all stars either, and I find that opinion sometimes gets overstated.

 

[Bar Down]

Are you really gonna go with the time machine argument? Obviously players would be different depending on what era they grew up in. I don't see any reason why Crosby wouldn't succeed with a wooden stick or no red line; he does most of his damage in front of the net and along the boards. Really dumb take.

"I'd hate to see Sidney Crosby with a wooden stick. I don't think anybody would get the puck from him."

An actual quote from Wayne Gretzky himself.

 

[Brock Radunske]

Speed and flash is nice and all but it takes more to be the best player in the game. Hopefully Crosby is putting that to rest for the time being!

 

[Mortivore]

I allways laugh when someone claims players from the past are better then players from the present.

If you have a pool of 10.000 players vs 1.000.000 players, which pool would have the best players?

 

[Brock Radunske]

Drop Crosby in Howe's Era and They would have to fold the NHL.

He would score every shift vs those unathletic slow players.

Maybe but I doubt his career would be more than a few weeks long.

 

[bobholly39]

I allways laugh when someone claims players from the past are better then players from the present.

If you have a pool of 10.000 players vs 1.000.000 players, which pool would have the best players?

The one with Gretzky, Orr and Lemieux.

 

[Lebowski]

To those that mock the 50s: you clearly lack the perspective of how hockey changes through eras. Ancient Sakic, Selanne, and Jagr were among the best players in the late 00s. We know how their primes compare to Lemieux's prime. We know how their prime compared to Gretzky's. We know how Gretzky's prime compared to Trottier's. We know how Trottier's prime compared to Esposito's. We know how Esposito's prime compared to aging Howe, who had his first 100 pt. season in 67-68 (as a 37 y.o.). We can judge their skills quite well. Get educated.

r/iamverysmart

 

[stepdad gaary]

The one with Gretzky, Orr and Lemieux.

50% of players in the league now are better than gretzy ever was.

This is like saying some old race car will beat a formula one car. It doesnt take away what they've done but the game has past them by.

 

[Nadal On Clay]

This isn't the real world. This is "hockey began in 2008" world.

And the HOH board is “hockey ended in 2005 world”

 

[Sentinel]

r/iamverysmart

Compared to the man with The Dude on his avatar, I have a case.

 

[Sentinel]

Lol, such objectivity.

Of course it's objectivity. Today's NHL is total vanilla compared to the O6 era.

 

[Sentinel]

"I'd hate to see Sidney Crosby with a wooden stick. I don't think anybody would get the puck from him."

An actual quote from Wayne Gretzky himself.

Gretzky is just about the last person you want to quote to base your case on. He thought Mike Comrie was better than himself.

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

Edit: All what I see in this thread concerning the different eras.

Congrats to Crosby, he is a great player. I think he will be top 5 players of all time when all will be said and done.

 

[bobholly39]

50% of players in the league now are better than gretzy ever was.

This is like saying some old race car will beat a formula one car. It doesnt take away what they've done but the game has past them by.

Gretzky is just about the last person you want to quote to base your case on. He thought Mike Comrie was better than himself.

I mean - Mike Comrie might in fact be better than Gretzky it seems. It depends what 50% he falls in. Maybe your fellow quotee can answer us

 

[Sentinel]

50% of players in the league now are better than gretzy ever was.

And this is why "I'mverysmart" doesn't look so outlandish, all of a sudden. "In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is..."

FTR, I think Crosby is a great player. I rank him currently between 8 and 12 of All Time, with a potential of becoming #5. But he is not sniffing The Big Four. Comparing Crosby to Lemieux and Howe does him a major disservice, because it looks like he is being put down, and that's not true. But comparing him to Hasek, Believau, Hull Sr., Richard, Jagr, Morenz, and Makarov makes it much more realistic. In fact, the best place to start would be Yzerman and Sakic. Sid is working his way over them, but a case against him can still be made.