Crosby leapfrogs Lemieux in all-time playoff points

[Grandma Bingo]

Your posts in this thread are way off base and you seem to be confusing two different conversations. Yes we can look at relative skill compared to competition in each generation of hockey and yes we can look at the progress of skill over time, but that doesn't mean players from yesteryear are as talented as modern players.

1950s hockey is honestly on par with beer leagues of today. As proof, check out the highlights from the 1954 cup finals between the Habs and Red Wings. Saying players of today couldn't hack it back then is laughable.

Not a single 1950s-era NHL player, if magically transported to 2018, would make a NHL roster. Most wouldn't make AHL rosters.

Now... if they were transported here as children, and got to grow up with current training regimens, nutrition, diets, etc.... then maybe.

But watching that video, I've seen better, faster hockey among 9th-grade teams.


Similarly... Jack Lambert and Johnny Unitas wouldn't make an NFL roster nowadays. And modern baseball pitchers would blow the ball past a tub of lard like Babe Ruth today. It would be ugly.

 

[Riddum]

Ah, yes, the 80s and early 90s. An era of suffocating defenses and limited 100-pt scores. How easy it is for a, Sidney Crosby to score.

I'm pretty sure that if you look at % in relation to peers, Lemieux was more dominant than Sid.

People love to bring up the 80s and 90s being high scoring but why did Gretzky and Lemieux score so much more than their peers?

 

[TheAngryHank]

I'm pretty sure that if you look at % in relation to peers, Lemieux was more dominant than Sid.

People love to bring up the 80s and 90s being high scoring but why did Gretzky and Lemieux score so much more than their peers?

Don't bother.
I would venture to guess most people in this thread would say ice was invented in 2005.

 

[66871]

Don't bother.
I would venture to guess most people in this thread would say ice was invented in 2005.

2009...DUH

 

[Asheville]

Crosby is the Pens' all-time most significant playoff performer. He will never match Mario in terms of sheer dominance or importance to the franchise, but he has contributed more to the legacy of the Pens in terms of their postseason success/cup runs than any other individual player, including Lemieux.

LOL no

For those of you that did not get to see the primes of Wayne Gretzky and Mario Lemieux live, this is the best way I can describe them:

Crosby is the best today, but he's busting his ass out there to achieve that status.

Gretzky and Lemieux were clowning other legends, and it looked like they weren't trying. If Wayne or Mario were playing your team, you typically turned the TV off when your team fell behind 1-0.

Based on offensive talent & output, it's Wayne, Mario and then a chasm until you reach whoever you slot at 3rd.

 

[pitcher]

Crosby is the Pens' all-time most significant playoff performer. He will never match Mario in terms of sheer dominance or importance to the franchise, but he has contributed more to the legacy of the Pens in terms of their postseason success/cup runs than any other individual player, including Lemieux.

I 100% disagree. Sid hasn't been the best player of his team in any of the 3 cups he won. You could argue that maybe last year nobody stood out so he might have been ex aequo with some others, but the previous year even tho he won the Smythe he wasn't the best, and his first cup year Malkin was better. Even if you disagree with that and find some weak arguments to say that Crosby truly deserve his 2 Smythe, one thing is sure, nobody can with a straight face say that these were dominant performances or that he deserved both AINEC.

Mario literally carried the team on his back on both of his cup runs. There is no question about who was the best. There is not a single doubt that he was, by far, the best out there, and the main reason why they won.

 

[Sentinel]

I 100% disagree. Sid hasn't been the best player of his team in any of the 3 cups he won. You could argue that maybe last year nobody stood out so he might have been ex aequo with some others, but the previous year even tho he won the Smythe he wasn't the best, and his first cup year Malkin was better. Even if you disagree with that and find some weak arguments to say that Crosby truly deserve his 2 Smythe, one thing is sure, nobody can with a straight face say that these were dominant performances or that he deserved both AINEC.

Mario literally carried the team on his back on both of his cup runs. There is no question about who was the best. There is not a single doubt that he was, by far, the best out there, and the main reason why they won.

While I agree with pretty much everything you said, don't forget that Mario's Penguins won an entire series without Mario, when he was injured. I'm not sure Sid's team wins without him. But, of course, the levels of domination are incomparable.

My favorite comparison of Sid, Wayne, and Mario is as follows. Crosby is a studious kid who studies hard, crams for every exam, pulls an all nighter, and gets an hard-earned A. Lemieux is a lazy kid who doesn't study at all, parties all night, shows up to class with a hangover and gets an easy A+. Gretzky is a telepath who knows what questions are going to be on every exam, then does the right amount of studying, and gets an A+, setting the record for the school, the state, and the country.

Those who say that 1950s stars wouldn't make today's AHL are simply ignorant.

 

[bobholly39]

Mario is a better hockey player than Crosby by a lot. Some will disagree of course but some people also think Ovechkin would score 250 goals per season in the 80s....

I don't think however that lemieuxs playoff legacy is untouchable by Crosby. It's arguably already close - and if pens/Crosby were to win a cup/smythe this year he arguably would surpass Lemieux for playoffs.

Crosby is putting together one heck of a winning pedigree as a player. One of the greatest winning pedigrees of all time.

 

[bobholly39]

My favorite comparison of Sid, Wayne, and Mario is as follows. Crosby is a studious kid who studies hard, crams for every exam, pulls an all nighter, and gets an hard-earned A. Lemieux is a lazy kid who doesn't study at all, parties all night, shows up to class with a hangover and gets an easy A+. Gretzky is a telepath who knows what questions are going to be on every exam, then does the right amount of studying, and gets an A+, setting the record for the school, the state, and the country.

I absolutely love that analogy. Very well put.

I do think that enough achievements from Crosby can surpass Lemieux's playoff legacy - because although Lemieux's ability at playing hockey is without question and without peers (if not for Gretzky) - his career record for team results isn't the strongest of all time, and could be touched. And Crosby's resume is incredible impressive, and he still has more to add most likely.

Those who say that 1950s stars wouldn't make today's AHL are simply ignorant.

Bring the stars of 1950s over to today and put them in an AHL game right away and they look like crap. Hockey's changed a lot, and is a lot faster, among other things.

But - bring those 1950s stars over. Give them proper equipment. Give them a few weeks to study how the games is played. Give them a training camp (and preferably a long one) to practice and adjust to how the game is played. And the stars of the 50s will shine in today's NHL just as they did back then. There may be exceptions - maybe a few stars playstyles are better suited to 1950s than to today's, but in a vacuum the best players of the 50s would be great today too, and vice versa.

 

[ZeroPucksGiven]

My favorite comparison of Sid, Wayne, and Mario is as follows. Crosby is a studious kid who studies hard, crams for every exam, pulls an all nighter, and gets an hard-earned A. Lemieux is a lazy kid who doesn't study at all, parties all night, shows up to class with a hangover and gets an easy A+. Gretzky is a telepath who knows what questions are going to be on every exam, then does the right amount of studying, and gets an A+, setting the record for the school, the state, and the country.

This analogy is not getting enough love. Spot on even though I disagree with the rest of your post

 

[dkhockey]

The kid has grown up.... seems like it was only yesterday Sid was living with mario..... and everytime there would be a thunderstorm over the house, sid would come in late at night and ask mario and his wife if he could sleep in the middle of the bed......... with that said, Go pens

 

[JudgeandJury]

Pretty sure Mario would've tucked that wraparound in.....even on the backhand. Unreal wingspan.

 

[Peggy]

Only took him 45 more games also.

but title says he leap frogs him

bad title is bad
passing someone is not leap frogging

 

[Thenameless]

Not a single 1950s-era NHL player, if magically transported to 2018, would make a NHL roster. Most wouldn't make AHL rosters.

Now... if they were transported here as children, and got to grow up with current training regimens, nutrition, diets, etc.... then maybe.

But watching that video, I've seen better, faster hockey among 9th-grade teams.


Similarly... Jack Lambert and Johnny Unitas wouldn't make an NFL roster nowadays. And modern baseball pitchers would blow the ball past a tub of lard like Babe Ruth today. It would be ugly.

If an 18 year old Gordie Howe was transported into the modern world, I would draft him first overall in June, ahead of Rasmus Dahlin. This "Buck Rogers" player from a bygone era would quickly show the modern NHL how good he really was. I don't think he needs to grow up with any "current training regimens, nutrition, diets, etc...." to be on equal footing with today's players. Even nutritionists today are seeing how wrong they were with their ideas just 5 or 10 years ago, as it's a science that keeps evolving - just give him a steak and a beer, and let him do his thing on the ice. At 6' and 205 pounds he's hardly undersized in today's game with guys like Patrick Kane and Martin St. Louis running around. The only thing that might mess up Gordie is why these "newer, better" players all have to wear helmets.

I'm more inclined to agree with you on NFL players as measurable speed, size, and strength make more of a difference in football, but again Jack Lambert is not a good example. That guy was a ridiculously big, strong, fast linebacker that would translate well to the game a mere 40 years later. But, yes, a modern 325 lb average offensive line would absolutely decimate a 195 lb average defensive line from the 1950's.

Babe Ruth. I don't know. If I was Clayton Kershaw of the Dodgers, against the Yankees in the World Series, and Babe Ruth came up to the plate and pointed out to the center-field bleachers, I might just get a lump in my throat.

 

[end]

All this talk about if Gordie Howe was born in 1990... if Gordie Howe was born just a couple years earlier, dollars to donuts he doesn't play a single NHL game and winds up in a box shipped home from Europe. The paradigms are different enough without hypothesizing.

 

[Ralph Spoilsport]

All this talk about if Gordie Howe was born in 1990... if Gordie Howe was born just a couple years earlier, dollars to donuts he doesn't play a single NHL game and winds up in a box shipped home from Europe. The paradigms are different enough without hypothesizing.

Interesting comment but I'm not sure I follow...could you dumb it down for me?

 

[Beau Knows]

Pretty good article about Crosby: The subtle secret to Sidney Crosby’s greatness – The Denver Post

"Just stupid little stuff like that,” Orpik said. “You would think it would never happen in a game. He would work on it for hours at a time if it meant he would score one goal that way. … A lot of people label it as lucky. With him, guys that practice with him know there’s not a lot of luck involved there.”