Crosby leapfrogs Lemieux in all-time playoff points

[Son Goku]

Except in the 90s the goalies and the defensemen were much, much better.

Are you sure about that? Or were new defensive systems being implemented? Sure there were some "standouts" at those positions but as a whole? I very much doubt it.

 

[authentic]

Except in the 90s the goalies and the defensemen were much, much better.

Yeah...no.

 

[Luigi Lemieux]

I think everyone knows Lemieux was a different level of player than Crosby. Crosby is certainly making a strong case for 5th best player of all time though. Especially if he manages the third consecutive smythe.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

And that's Crosby's luck. He doesn't have to face first ballot Hall of Fame defensemen and goalies 24 times a season. If you think he would last a season in the 50s, you don't have a clue.

howe wouldn't even make the league today

crosby wouldn't last in the 50's LMAO how does anybody take this guy seriously???

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

The History of Hockey forum: "where players of the past are always better than the ones today."

Very knowledgeable posters there, but not the ideal destination if you're interested in objectivity, or yes, common sense.

i always read that forum when i need a laugh, bunch of old guys that think the entire world peaked 40 years ago

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

Except in the 90s the goalies and the defensemen were much, much better.

I disagree concerning the goalies. Sure there were some all time greats in Roy, Hasek and Brodeur but the average goalies today are much better than those of the 90's.

 

[Sentinel]

I disagree concerning the goalies. Sure there were some all time greats in Roy, Hasek and Brodeur but the average goalies today are much better than those of the 90's.

Belfour, Richter, Irbe, Joseph... Today's leading goalies, with an exception of wildly inconsistent Quick, haven't won a single Cup.

 

[Lafleurs Guy]

Lemieux is still the best player I have ever seen play hockey.

 

[Sentinel]

Are you sure about that? Or were new defensive systems being implemented? Sure there were some "standouts" at those positions but as a whole? I very much doubt it.

Very sure. A string of first-ballot HOF defensemen, and four goalies routinely named in the Top 15 of all time? Today's top goalies can't even make the Finals.

 

[GordieHowsUrBreath]

Are you twelve or just pretending to be a child? I wonder how you will react in twenty years, when your son tells you "Crosby wouldn't even make today's League!"

How can anyone take YOU seriously is a mystery. Maybe nobody does, so the question is moot.

you need to get over 2 things

2009... it's been almost a decade

your childhood heroes have been surpassed, why not enjoy the better quality players we have today rather than dwell on something that is gone and never coming back?

hope this helps

 

[Licentia]

I think everyone knows Lemieux was a different level of player than Crosby.

I wouldn't say that. With all the players in such good shape these days, it's hard for one player to excel above the rest.

 

[harmonica]

And that's Crosby's luck. He doesn't have to face first ballot Hall of Fame defensemen and goalies 24 times a season. If you think he would last a season in the 50s, you don't have a clue.

Your posts in this thread are way off base and you seem to be confusing two different conversations. Yes we can look at relative skill compared to competition in each generation of hockey and yes we can look at the progress of skill over time, but that doesn't mean players from yesteryear are as talented as modern players.

1950s hockey is honestly on par with beer leagues of today. As proof, check out the highlights from the 1954 cup finals between the Habs and Red Wings. Saying players of today couldn't hack it back then is laughable.

 

[Tuna Tatarrrrrr]

Belfour, Richter, Irbe, Joseph... Today's leading goalies, with an exception of wildly inconsistent Quick, haven't won a single Cup.

Maybe only because the leading goalies today are not better than the leading ones of the 90's (Roy, Hasek and Brodeur) right?

 

[PenguinSpeed]

Very sure. A string of first-ballot HOF defensemen, and four goalies routinely named in the Top 15 of all time? Today's top goalies can't even win the Cup without an all-star cast.

-Define todays top goalies? Matt Murray is the best playoff goalie of all time as it stands right now statistically. And Jonathan Quick is right behind him with Tukka Rask. Holtby (loses to Powerhouse Penguins yearly), Jones (Lost to Penguins in Stanley Cup Finals), All 4 of those rank in the Top 8 All Time in Playoff Save Percentage. These goalies are better then any of the goalies from the 80s or 90s besides Roy, Dryden, Hasak, and maybe, maybe Brodeur era adjusted. All the others are grossly overrated.

 

[Sentinel]

-Define todays top goalies? Matt Murray is the best playoff goalie of all time as it stands right now statistically. And Jonathan Quick is right behind him with Tukka Rask. Holtby (loses to Powerhouse Penguins yearly), Jones (Lost to Penguins in Stanley Cup Finals), All 4 of those rank in the Top 8 All Time in Playoff Save Percentage. These goalies are better then any of the goalies from the 80s or 90s besides Roy, Dryden, Hasek, and maybe, maybe Brodeur era adjusted. All the others are grossly overrated.

How many Vezina trophies do they all have? I'll tell you: TWO. COMBINED. How many Conn Smythes do they all have? One between them all. For the goalies of the Lemieux era the answer is 15 and 6. Overrated my ass.

 

[Sentinel]

you need to get over 2 things

2009... it's been almost a decade

your childhood heroes have been surpassed, why not enjoy the better quality players we have today rather than dwell on something that is gone and never coming back?

hope this helps

Nobody is even remotely close to surpassing the Big Four, in either raw skills or accomplishments relative to their peers. I hope this helps.

 

[NOLAPensFan]

Belfour, Richter, Irbe, Joseph... Today's leading goalies, with an exception of wildly inconsistent Quick, haven't won a single Cup.

Just because the 1994 Sharks upset the Wings does not make Irbe even remotely comparable to today's goalies.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

How many Vezina trophies do they all have? I'll tell you: TWO. COMBINED. How many Conn Smythes do they all have? One between them all. For the 90s goalies the answer is 15 and 5. Overrated my ass.

-They have 5 Stanley Cups from the players I named. Matt Murray is 23 years old.

Stanley Cups from the players you named

Belfour-1
Richter-1
Joseph-0

-I cant help the fact the Penguins are in the Stanley Cup Finals every other year and knock out all the East teams yearly

 

[Bar Down]

Nobody is even remotely close to surpassing the Big Four, in either raw skills or accomplishments relative to their peers. I hope this helps.

 

[Sentinel]

Just because the 1994 Sharks upset the Wings does not make Irbe even remotely comparable to today's goalies.

He also took 02 Carolina to the SCFs, where they had no business being. He was an excellent goalie. Remind me: who was the last goalie to drag a very weak team to the SCFs? Roloson? 10 Luongo and 14 HL had much better teams in front of them than Irbe.

But I will concede that Irbe was a weaker goalie than all the others I mentioned.

 

[Sentinel]

-They have 5 Stanley Cups from the players I named. Matt Murray is 23 years old.

Stanley Cups from the players you named

Belfour-1
Richter-1
Joseph-0

-I cant help the fact the Penguins are in the Stanley Cup Finals every other year and knock out all the East teams yearly

What made you omit Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, and Vernon? And yeah, Richter and Belfour have more Cups than all goalies of this decade combined, except Murray and Quick, and those two don't have a SINGLE VEZINA to their name.

This is too easy.

 

[harmonica]

Nobody is even remotely close to surpassing the Big Four, in either raw skills or accomplishments relative to their peers. I hope this helps.

You also need to realize that nobody will ever dominate their peers the way players of the past did, its just not possible with the tightening of the skill level gap from the best to the worst in the league. However, what this thread and many Crosby threads attempt to point out, is that he is making a case for being ranked up there with the all time greats and him surpassing Lemieux and many other greats in playoff points is just another reason why he may be considered one of the greatest to ever play the game.

 

[Sentinel]

Sure thing, Maggie.

 

[PenguinSpeed]

What made you omit Roy, Hasek, Brodeur, and Vernon? And yeah, Richter and Belfour have more Cups than all goalies of this decade combined, except Murray and Quick, and those two don't have a SINGLE VEZINA to their name.

This is too easy.

This is exactly what I posted 30 minutes ago in quote.

"These goalies are better then any of the goalies from the 80s or 90s besides Roy, Dryden, Hasak, and maybe, maybe Brodeur era adjusted. All the others are grossly overrated"

 

[Sentinel]

You also need to realize that nobody will ever dominate their peers the way players of the past did, its just not possible with the tightening of the skill level gap from the best to the worst in the league. However, what this thread and many Crosby threads attempt to point out, is that he is making a case for being ranked up there with the all time greats and him surpassing Lemieux and many other greats in playoff points is just another reason why he may be considered one of the greatest to ever play the game.

They didn't just dominate the average League player. They dominated other stars, beating them by 20+% in scoring. Crosby beats his 2nd by 5% in scoring and not nearly as often the other Big Three forwards did. You don't need to dominate the entire League, top to bottom. You should just beat the second best player, hopefully by a significant margin. In Art Rosses and Harts Crosby is not in the same stratosphere.