Confidence in the Front Office

[Gordon Bombay]

Only issue I have with the Staal trade is the way AV used him.

The Staal-Lindberg-Stalberg line was great. It was like AV couldn't keep a good thing going last year.

 

[Inferno]

Only issue I have with the Staal trade is the way AV used him.

i personally wouldnt have made that trade...i felt like the team should have been sellers at the deadline...

 

[silverfish]

i personally wouldnt have made that trade...i felt like the team should have been sellers at the deadline...

I understand, but I find it hard to empathize. When was the last time a team that was in 2nd place in the conference at the trade deadline sold?

Yeah, maybe the FO should've investigated some of the deeper issues that the Rangers had at the time. And yeah, maybe trading for a guy who was more comfortable at center when you already have Stepan > Brass > Hayes down the middle probably isn't the smartest thing. Especially when you know Hayes is a tragedy at wing.

I don't quite remember what I wanted the Rangers to do at the deadline last year, but I'm sure it involved trading Miller

 

[Levitate]

I understand, but I find it hard to empathize. When was the last time a team that was in 2nd place in the conference at the trade deadline sold?

Yeah, maybe the FO should've investigated some of the deeper issues that the Rangers had at the time. And yeah, maybe trading for a guy who was more comfortable at center when you already have Stepan > Brass > Hayes down the middle probably isn't the smartest thing. Especially when you know Hayes is a tragedy at wing.

I don't quite remember what I wanted the Rangers to do at the deadline last year, but I'm sure it involved trading Miller

The problem was really that it was obvious the Rangers had some issues last season, especially defensively, and didn't look like the contender they had been the previous years. Yet management went out and paid a decently hefty future price to shore up their cup chances without actually addressing what their worst issues were.

I'd have been more or less fine with the move if the Rangers were really playing strong hockey and looking to go into the playoffs as a favorite, but they were maddeningly inconsistent last year and it was obvious they had issues.

I wouldn't expect them to sell in that situation but at this point I'm less than enthusiastic that they were willing to give up future assets at that point

 

[silverfish]

The problem was really that it was obvious the Rangers had some issues last season, especially defensively, and didn't look like the contender they had been the previous years. Yet management went out and paid a decently hefty future price to shore up their cup chances without actually addressing what their worst issues were.

I'd have been more or less fine with the move if the Rangers were really playing strong hockey and looking to go into the playoffs as a favorite, but they were maddeningly inconsistent last year and it was obvious they had issues.

I wouldn't expect them to sell in that situation but at this point I'm less than enthusiastic that they were willing to give up future assets at that point

Unpopular opinion: 2nd round picks are inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps the Rangers are less high on Saarela than we are on this board.

The issue is when you group the Staal trade in with other trades that the Rangers have made. I think this is a fair way to assess Rangers management, but a poor way to evaluate the Staal trade.

 

[Levitate]

Unpopular opinion: 2nd round picks are inconsequential in the grand scheme of things. Perhaps the Rangers are less high on Saarela than we are on this board.

The issue is when you group the Staal trade in with other trades that the Rangers have made. I think this is a fair way to assess Rangers management, but a poor way to evaluate the Staal trade.

I mean, yes, if you ignore all the picks the Rangers traded before the Staal trade, it by itself isn't the worst thing. A B prospect, a couple of seconds, not too bad.

But it didn't happen in a vacuum and I can't really just ignore the overall situation of the team when taking into account the advisability of the trade.

I understand why they did it and honestly if he had played real well in the playoffs and the Rangers made a series of it against Pittsburgh then I probably wouldn't be too annoyed about it. But that part is hindsight

 

[True Blue]

But it didn't happen in a vacuum and I can't really just ignore the overall situation of the team when taking into account the advisability of the trade.

That is exactly right. And then take into account that dumping two second round picks and a prospect for a player whose level was as a third line center, the trade looks worse and worse.

 

[True Blue]

I understand, but I find it hard to empathize. When was the last time a team that was in 2nd place in the conference at the trade deadline sold?

But you also need to look realistically at how they looked. Their best stretch of the season featured poor play. But they were bailed out by Henke. That stretch aside, they were the epitome of a mediocre team.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

But you also need to look realistically at how they looked. Their best stretch of the season featured poor play. But they were bailed out by Henke. That stretch aside, they were the epitome of a mediocre team.

You're right in the sense that they absolutely should not have paid such a high price for Eric Staal. That seemed obvious to many of us at the time.

But not trading for EStaal is not the same as cutting bait and trading Yandle in the middle of the playoff push.

San Jose was every bit as inconsistent as NYR. They ended up going to the SCF. Should they have traded Thornton or Burns or a pending UFA at the deadline?

16 teams think they have a shot. There's probably about 5-6 that actually have a serious shot. No GM trades Yandle in that situation. Not giving up an absurd amount for E Staal? I'm with you 100%. Maybe the better question is why did we (again) give up an absurd amount for Yandle if our coach was going to play him as a bottom-pair D, the same ES minutes as John Moore, and play Dan Boyle in more crucial situations? That was the problem: trading for Yandle when LD was already fine, and a coach who refused to play him to his strengths and use him properly most of the time, and bench the partner he had the most chemistry with.

We never should've traded for Yandle.

We should've never signed Dan Boyle.

We should've never let Stralman and Hagelin go.

Kreider Stepan Duclair
Miller Zibanejad Zuccarello
Hagelin Hayes Buchnevich
Jooris Lindberg Fast

McDonagh Klein
Staal Stralman
Moore/Holden McIlrath

Lundqvist
Raanta


And that's without Nash in the lineup, so assume we traded Nash after his 42 goal season and no-show CHOKEJOB in the playoffs in 2014.

It's painful the amount of major talent assessment and judgement mistakes this front office has made, and then they make more on top of them and blame "lack of cap space" on the reason for losing Stralman for nothing and trading away the motor of the team in Hagelin. You would've had cap-space if you didn't give by all SJS accounts a totally washed up Dan Boyle a two year 9M dollar deal. Or re-signed both one-dimensional defensemen Staal and Girardi into their mid-30's.

How much faith do I have in this front office?

Zero.

Zibanejad is a good start. I like Jooris, Holden, and Grabner signings, and the contracts for Miller, Hayes, and Kreider. It's going to take a lot more as we go forward. There's no room for another Hagelin/Stralman or Boyle/Yandle blunder.

 

[True Blue]

We never should've traded for Yandle.

We should've never signed Dan Boyle.

We should've never let Stralman and Hagelin go.

Kreider Stepan Duclair
Miller Zibanejad Zuccarello
Hagelin Hayes Buchnevich
Jooris Lindberg Fast

McDonagh Klein
Staal Stralman
Moore/Holden McIlrath

Lundqvist
Raanta


And that's without Nash in the lineup, so assume we traded Nash after his 42 goal season and no-show CHOKEJOB in the playoffs in 2014.

It's painful the amount of major talent assessment and judgement mistakes this front office has made, and then they make more on top of them and blame "lack of cap space" on the reason for losing Stralman for nothing and trading away the motor of the team in Hagelin. You would've had cap-space if you didn't give by all SJS accounts a totally washed up Dan Boyle a two year 9M dollar deal. Or re-signed both one-dimensional defensemen Staal and Girardi into their mid-30's.

How much faith do I have in this front office?

Zero.

Zibanejad is a good start. I like Jooris, Holden, and Grabner signings, and the contracts for Miller, Hayes, and Kreider. It's going to take a lot more as we go forward. There's no room for another Hagelin/Stralman or Boyle/Yandle blunder.

Can't really disagree with much here.

 

[gorangers0525]

This offseason Gorton's done fine. Yea, losing my two favorite Ranger's sucks, and this team is going to be unbearable next season, but we weren't contenders. Youth movement is the way to go

 

[bobbop]

Just got a lot higher! Good job, Gorts!

 

[Irishguy42]

Despite no moves on the defense (for now), I think Gorton has given the Rangers one of the best offseasons in a while.

Yes, he let go of Yandle, but didn't lose him for nothing. Got two picks out of it.

 

[LeetchisGod]

He has redeemed himself after the Staal debacle.

 

[Inferno]

IMHO Gortons hit a home run so far this offseason. Vesey was an absolute monster signing.

no, i dont think hes an elite forward..but hes young, cost controlled, and fits the system.

he allows us to trade from an area of strength to fix an area of weakness.

 

[silverfish]

If he can get rid of Girardi, and get a good deal for a D from one of our forwards, and then signs Hudler or Pirri to replace said forward... I'm ready to give him GM of the year for the next five years.

 

[Ail]

Good stuff for this offseason so far, but I am still anxious to see how they handle the defense and how long of a leash Vignuggets gets with his terrible roster management.

 

[KreiderHouseRules*]

This changes nothing for me.

It was a no-brainer to be "interested" in Vesey. Any team that he would've listened to would've been interested.

Do I have confidence in college UFA's wanting to come to NYR? Sure.

Confidence in the front office? Still not much.

 

[Beacon]

IMHO Gortons hit a home run so far this offseason. Vesey was an absolute monster signing.

no, i dont think hes an elite forward..but hes young, cost controlled, and fits the system.

he allows us to trade from an area of strength to fix an area of weakness.

Agreed. A young middle-6 guy on a $925 contract is possibly worth more than a vet on a massive contract. If the team had to expose one of them in the expansion draft, who would you rather expose Nash or Hayes? I'd expose Nash. Vesey should be as good as Hayes, just a bit different.

 

[Beacon]

Added Mika and Vesey, plus prospects like Stromwall, Clendening, Chapie, Gilmour, Paliotta. The last 4 probably won't turn into much, but Stromwall is interesting to at least follow.

At the very least, the quantity on the farm is better with 5 signees and 6 draftees added. Whether it's just quantity or also quality is yet to be seen, but Mike, Vesey, Strom, etc do make the future seem brighter.

 

[Gardner McKay]

He has redeemed himself after the Staal debacle.

All the more reason I maintain that he didn't have full control over the team until this off season.

He has done an outstanding job.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Ziba trade and Vesey signing were good. Also thought the Gilmour signing helps, but I still would like us to add a RH PMD.

 

[Irishguy42]

Ziba trade and Vesey signing were good. Also thought the Gilmour signing helps, but I still would like us to add a RH PMD.

Gotta wonder if something like that is currently in the works (be it the formulation of a plan, or they're actually finding a deal right now), or at least a plan to get one is on the forefront of Gorton's mind.

 

[Trxjw]

Ugh. Gorton asleep at the wheel while Gorton rebuilds the team with more young players.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Gotta wonder if something like that is currently in the works (be it the formulation of a plan, or they're actually finding a deal right now), or at least a plan to get one is on the forefront of Gorton's mind.

Nash+Klein for a RH PMD. We can retain on Nash. If Gorton can get that done, and thats the end of our offseason, thats a really good offseason.