Confidence in the Front Office

[lJuicel]

http://m.thn.com/blog/how-much-confidence-does-each-nhl-fan-base-have-in-their-front-office-a-ranking-of-all-30-teams/

Really shooting for the stars here, grabbing 26th.
I know we've got Gorts now but still somewhat telling.

Click to read more...

 

[Irishguy42]

I actually think 26th was low for the team. I figured we'd be low 20s or high teens.

Personally, I have good confidence in the front office.

 

[Raspewtin]

That's noted analytics pundit omgitsdomi from twitter. Glad to see he found professional work. Very intelligent guy. Either way, he's right.

 

[ReggieDunlop68]

Yeah. Our front office is worse than the Buffalo Sabres, Toronto Maple Leafs, Carolina Hurricanes, and Columbus Bluejackets.

Also, our front office is only slightly less mismanaged than the Edmonton Oilers, a team who is complete **** after a half decade of top picks.

K...

 

[Inferno]

its all relative though...a few years ago i felt a lot better about this team, till they started trading futures like candy.

 

[Levitate]

its all relative though...a few years ago i felt a lot better about this team, till they started trading futures like candy.

I don't mind the St Louis or Yandle trades too much, though perhaps they paid more than they should have, since they had legitimate reasons to go for it and they almost paid off. A lot of times you have to sacrifice some to make a cup run and the Rangers took their shots.

The Staal trade was pretty bad though...the team had been inconsistent all season and struggled defensively and didn't look like the same team it was in previous years, but they still gave up some pretty good assets for a guy who did nothing. If Staal had played real well and the Rangers done better and pushed for another Cup appearance it'd be one thing, but it was a gamble they really didn't need to make and it delayed restocking that needed to be done.

Not sure how I feel about confidence in management restocking the cupboard...just will have to see I guess, trying not to expect things either way

 

[Brooklyn Rangers Fan]

I know it's summer, but we really don't have much new to discuss, do we?

My reaction to this is the same as I've expressed in the roster building thread and elsewhere:

I think this is Gorton's first year truly at the helm. I think he's said a lot of the right things (didn't like the quip about "you don't think we'll be competitive?" to Brooks, but then again that was for the record, and attributed; not quite the same as what he says off the record). I like that he did not sign any big UFAs. I like that he did sign depth guys and especially low-risk/low-probability/high-reward lottery tickets in the two young RHDs. I like that he reportedly made a play for the #4OA. I like that when that deal fell through, he didn't turn around and respond with panic moves.

Now it all comes down to what he does over the next 8 months.

I have hopeful confidence right now. It won't be confirmed until I see where we stand after the TDL.

 

[Off Sides]

So far this off-season to me is better than their last two, so if that is being done by patient design instead of just circumstance driven, then I am becoming more confident.

Yet if they were really like, OMG we are going to crush it and make 5 good trades after we sign Stamkos, clauses be darned, no biggy, we got this in the bag, and their grand plan all fell apart then I am much less confident.

 

[silverfish]

Think about it this way.

Start Gorton off at a score of 100. Subtract a point for every bad move that he makes. Don't add a point for good moves though. It's his job to make good moves. He should, in theory, always be at 100.

What's his score, let's say, dating back to 7/1/2015. What's it compared to other GMs?

I have no idea, but it's an interesting concept I saw floated on Twitter a bit back.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

I'm still not sure what this front office really believes.

They said that the core deserved "one more kick at the can" last season. Fair enough. But then they went out and made the E Staal trade and give up more assets. That was not giving the core one more kick at it.

There's been a lot of talk about changes this offseason and there really haven't been moves that have altered this team, other than swapping dance partners on the bottom six.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Think about it this way.

Start Gorton off at a score of 100. Subtract a point for every bad move that he makes. Don't add a point for good moves though. It's his job to make good moves. He should, in theory, always be at 100.

What's his score, let's say, dating back to 7/1/2015. What's it compared to other GMs?

I have no idea, but it's an interesting concept I saw floated on Twitter a bit back.

How are you defining what is bad move? Trading Amonte for Noonan and Matteau can be considered a bad move. But that move helped the Rangers win the Cup. Was that a bad trade? Was Weight for Tikkanen?

 

[Miamipuck]

If by confidence in the front office, you mean I have the confidence that the next major move they make will be a bad one, yep I have plenty of confidence in the front office. It's all they have done since 2013-2014 ended.

 

[silverfish]

How are you defining what is bad move? Trading Amonte for Noonan and Matteau can be considered a bad move. But that move helped the Rangers win the Cup. Was that a bad trade? Was Weight for Tikkanen?

Unfortunately, hindsight is key. Or, grading at the time of the move.

For instance, I didn't hate the Eric Staal trade, so I personally would not subtract 1 from Gorton on that move. Hindsight says it wasn't a good move, but I remember how I felt about it, so I'm not going to subtract anything.

It's a completely subjective measure, I know that.

 

[Off Sides]

Not going to go over every move and not going to follow the rules but

Talbot for some picks, +1
Hagelin for whatever -12
Stoll -5
Glass waived +5
Glass recalled -9
Renting anyone -22

This off-season net 0 or +3 for not doing some of that stuff they did last off-season

 

[Doctor King Schultz]

I thought 26th was where I'd put our front office. The Girardi/Staal contacts, trading Duclair for Yandle and then not re-signing Yandle, the Eric Staal trade, letting Stralman go so we could sign Dan Boyle. All terrible moves. Giving Stepan $6.5m is another thing I'm not thrilled about. I'd say the McDonagh trade and his current contract are the only thing I praise our F/O for.

 

[BlueshirtBlitz]

Yeah. Our front office is worse than the Buffalo Sabres, Toronto Maple Leafs, Carolina Hurricanes, and Columbus Bluejackets.

Also, our front office is only slightly less mismanaged than the Edmonton Oilers, a team who is complete **** after a half decade of top picks.

K...

Rangers traded Saarela and 2 seconds to Carolina for the husk of Eric Staal (even if you were confident about Staal, it was a questionable move for a team that was clearly trending down), and sat idly as Yandle's tenure was botched by AV. Front office doesn't deserve a lot of confidence right now.

 

[JT Kreider]

The problem isn't that I have no faith in Gorton. It's just that his hands are tied with these contracts.

Cmon guys be realistic nobody is taking Girardi or Staal off our hands. They're horrendous players on horrendous contracts.

Nash on the other hand, his value isn't that high to others as it is to us if we're still trying to be a contender. For one not many playoff teams can fit him under their cap unless we retain. And even then he's worth more to us, more so than the futures and lesser pieces that we'd get in return for him anyway.

This team isn't good enough to win the Cup, but we're not bad enough to not be a playoff team. Certainly not bad enough to draft in the top 5 where all the franchise changing talent that we desperately need is.

You're not starting any rebuild until you trade Lundqvist. Between his cap hit and the goalie market (Dallas is probably the only team that doesn't have a legit goalie in net or in the pipeline), we wouldn't get anywhere near full value from him. And Dallas probably and rightfully so prefers Bishop if they're giving up a Nuke, Honka, Ritchie etc.

I'd feel a lot better about this team if AV was fired.

He had a pitiful year. Nearly every established player we have either had the worst year of their careers or regressed hard. Because he put everyone in a huge position to fail. And we had our worst playoff showing in a decade.

 

[mrhockey193195]

Not going to go over every move and not going to follow the rules but

Talbot for some picks, +1
Hagelin for whatever -12
Stoll -5
Glass waived +5
Glass recalled -9
Renting anyone -22

This off-season net 0 or +3 for not doing some of that stuff they did last off-season

Not speaking to you personally, but I just find it funny that so many people here were ok with the move at the time, and now with full hindsight hate the move and blame Gorton. It's ok to hate the move in hindsight, you can't retroactively blame management and still yell and scream on these forums that you know how to fix the team.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Unfortunately, hindsight is key. Or, grading at the time of the move.

For instance, I didn't hate the Eric Staal trade, so I personally would not subtract 1 from Gorton on that move. Hindsight says it wasn't a good move, but I remember how I felt about it, so I'm not going to subtract anything.

It's a completely subjective measure, I know that.

Fair enough. But indulge me and go back to my example.

When the Rangers traded Tony Amonte he was 23 or so years old and coming off back-to-back 30 goal seasons. They traded him for two players who were not as productive and were also older. On the surface, that's a bad trade. But those trades helped the Rangers win the Cup.

Is that a bad trade? Not trying to be combative, just throwing a question out there.

 

[SingnBluesOnBroadway]

Not going to go over every move and not going to follow the rules but

Talbot for some picks, +1
Hagelin for whatever -12
Stoll -5
Glass waived +5
Glass recalled -9
Renting anyone -22

This off-season net 0 or +3 for not doing some of that stuff they did last off-season

Using this format/forumal, I don't think you editorialize by adding negative value to a trade if you don't like. if it's -1 or 0 for bad move/good move, Gorton would be 96 for the four "bad moves".

This grading is even harder when you factor in things like the salary cap. But it's interesting.

 

[Captain Lindy]

If they bought out either Girardi/Stall or both, I would have had better confidence in them. They are just wasting time, being in denial of at least Girardi's abilities.

 

[Weltschmerz]

Think about it this way.

Start Gorton off at a score of 100. Subtract a point for every bad move that he makes. Don't add a point for good moves though. It's his job to make good moves. He should, in theory, always be at 100.

Can't think of a single GM who never made a bad move.
How was Rutherford seen not long ago?

 

[silverfish]

Fair enough. But indulge me and go back to my example.

When the Rangers traded Tony Amonte he was 23 or so years old and coming off back-to-back 30 goal seasons. They traded him for two players who were not as productive and were also older. On the surface, that's a bad trade. But those trades helped the Rangers win the Cup.

Is that a bad trade? Not trying to be combative, just throwing a question out there.

At the time, yes. Hindsight, maybe also yes. Rangers won the Cup. Maybe they win more than one if Amonte isn't traded. Maybe they don't win any. Who knows.

Probably better to judge these moves at the time they occur rather than later.

Maybe we open a "Grade Gorton thread" and use it like the player elimination thread

Can't think of a single GM who never made a bad move.
How was Rutherford seen not long ago?

For sure, all GMs mess up. This is a way to see who messes up the most, though

 

[Weltschmerz]

For sure, all GMs mess up. This is a way to see who messes up the most, though

When you never reward good moves the guys who spend the most time in the business will look worst though.

 

[silverfish]

When you never reward good moves the guys who spend the most time in the business will look worst though.

Could:

1. Reset the clock prior to the draft each season
2. Could do points lost per season as GM, but I know how people around here feel about production based metrics