Calgary Flames 2014 Draft Thread Part Deux

[GetThePuckOut]

Draisaitl did better on a much, much, much, much, much worse team. T

That is a valid point.

Draisaitl also had Josh Morrisey though who's one of the best offensive D's in the league.

Also, the OHL has been a pretty low-scoring league lately. They only had 3 100 point scorers, and two of them played for Erie. The dub had 5, and could have had 10 if it weren't for injuries. So it's hard to compare stats across different leagues.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

The two biggest things I look for in a prospect are Hockey Sense and confidence. Draisaitl is better in both and I still don't understand why 1. You don't like Draisaitl and 2. You like Dal Colle. I like Dal Colle as much as the next guy but I really love LD. And so far you've stated we have a need for Dal Colle and Draisaitl is Hanzal. Also that Dal Colle is Canadian and Draisaitl is German so lets pick the Canadian (ClassicK)

 

[Mr Lebowski]

That is a valid point.

Draisaitl also had Josh Morrisey though who's one of the best offensive D's in the league.

Also, the OHL has been a pretty low-scoring league lately. They only had 3 100 point scorers, and two of them played for Erie. The dub had 5, and could have had 10 if it weren't for injuries. So it's hard to compare stats across different leagues.

PA had Morrisey but no forwards, Dal Colle was playing with great players while Draisaitl wasn't. That's what I find amazing about his passing as well. 65 assists with no help.

 

[GetThePuckOut]

Dal Colle is a good passer on the rush, other than that he's not that good, Draisaitl's passing is a lot better. MDC has better D, Draisaitl has better I.Q. Draisaitl's more physical

I disagree there. I've seen a few Oshawa games and Dal Colle has made a lot of elite passes off the cycle. He runs a powerplay beautifully with his skating and passing ability. In one game he made a ridiculous one touch pass on a 3 on 2 that resulted in a great scoring chance. He doesn't need much time to think of a creative play. I think he's a great playmaker.

 

[SmellOfVictory]

The two biggest things I look for in a prospect are Hockey Sense and confidence. Draisaitl is better in both and I still don't understand why 1. You don't like Draisaitl and 2. You like Dal Colle. I like Dal Colle as much as the next guy but I really love LD. And so far you've stated we have a need for Dal Colle and Draisaitl is Hanzal. Also that Dal Colle is Canadian and Draisaitl is German so lets pick the Canadian (ClassicK)

Draisaitl might have an edge in hockey sense/passing, but MDC is faster, bigger, a better shooter, and better defensively; and MDC is still a guy with good hockey sense - it's not like he's deficient.

 

[GetThePuckOut]

The two biggest things I look for in a prospect are Hockey Sense and confidence. Draisaitl is better in both and I still don't understand why 1. You don't like Draisaitl and 2. You like Dal Colle. I like Dal Colle as much as the next guy but I really love LD. And so far you've stated we have a need for Dal Colle and Draisaitl is Hanzal. Also that Dal Colle is Canadian and Draisaitl is German so lets pick the Canadian (ClassicK)

I don't think we can go wrong with either. Between DC/Draisaitl/Bennett, any one of them would be cause to celebrate.

Why I like DC more is because there's less weaknesses in his game (Leon's skating), and more strengths (sniping goals, dangling fools). Dal Colle doesn't have a single deficiency in his game or character (except for maybe belligerence if you wanna count that).

 

[Mr Lebowski]

Draisaitl might have an edge in hockey sense/passing, but MDC is faster, bigger, a better shooter, and better defensively; and MDC is still a guy with good hockey sense - it's not like he's deficient.

He's not bigger, Draisaitl is much bigger and uses his size better. MDC is better 200ft player but Draisaitl's good as well, i love bithe prospects and think they'll both be great players in the NHL but O have to look at Dal Colle a bit pessimistically for Draisaitl

 

[TheClassicK*]

You compared Hanzal to LD which is just idiotic. Hanzal's passing, hands and I.Q are and were nowhere near Draisaitl's. You said we need a player with a great shot. Dal Colle's and Draisaitl's are even. Draisaitl has a quicker release and Dal Colle has more power and acvuracy is even. You said we need speed. We don't, we have tons of scpring wingers that are fast. Like mentioned there Draisaitl is a big center which is what we need. Backlund/Monahan/Granlund/Stajan/Arnold are all small. Janko is our only big one. And Monahan is big but doesn't play too big. Like said by Volica

I compared LD to Hanzal in terms of their style of play - both are not overly fast, but they use their big reach and body to their advantage. Both with decent passing and shooting skills. I have no idea where you get that LD is WORLD CLASS at just about everything, because he's not.

I said we need speed, but you don't think we do? You're delusional. We don't have "tons" of wingers that are fast. Like I said, Paul Byron was our only winger who had the genuine speed to flow by a defender. Glencross can do that on a good day. The rest? Hudler can't, Cammy couldn't, Colborne, Galiardi, and even Baertschi. The wingers we had simply could not.

And you're seriously saying Monahan is a small center? for you.

You don't need 4 HUGE-ass centers to win the Stanley Cup. Are Krejci and Bergeron huge? Did Chicago have huge centers when they won the cup twice? LA has one huge center in Kopitar, but Richards and Stoll aren't exactly huge.

BPA: everyone has Leon higher
NHL readyness: Draisaitl gor his size
NEED FOR PROSPECT LIKE THEM: Draisaitl, big center that's an elite passer or another left winger. MDC isn't like our other LWers but still.
SIZE: LD
SKILL: LD

Like I said to Volica, NO, NOT EVERYONE HAS LEON HIGHER. Go to ISS and check it out, sweetheart. Size? They're about the same in height, you can't change that. LD has about 20 lbs on MDC, but that can be changed. Age? MDC is 8 months younger. You could pretty much say that MDC is a year younger. Skill? That might be where opinions clash, because after I've spent about a good full day analyzing LD and MDC, the latter has the better skillset to become a Top 6 forward on an NHL team.

There you go. Draisaitl did better on a much, much, much, much, much worse team. There have been two knocks on Draisaitl. Speed which I'm not gonna argue he's slow but his skating is fine. Great balance and footwork. Amd hos consistency which that fear has been put to bed because of his last 2 months. Don't see how MDC is better than Draisaitl, why do you think so? We have one passer near Draisaitl's ability and that's Jankowski but who knows how that's gonna turn out and still LD's passing is off the charts. His puck protection is amazing and top hockey sense. MDC also had the luxury of playing with the best team in the CHL and one of the best players in Scott Laughton. He had a great team, Draisaitl had Reid Gardner to play with.

No, they weren't the best team in the CHL. He did get to play with Laughton but that's not what I looked at. MDC beats LD in footspeed, shot, scoring touch, and general offensive sense. He can play center too if you so want. So there, why MDC>LD.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

I don't think we can go wrong with either. Between DC/Draisaitl/Bennett, any one of them would be cause to celebrate.

Why I like DC more is because there's less weaknesses in his game (Leon's skating), and more strengths (sniping goals, dangling fools). Dal Colle doesn't have a single deficiency in his game or character (except for maybe belligerence if you wanna count that).

I just think Draisaitl's more polished and just great playmaker and love his puck protection. The only fault LD has is speed, skating mechancs are fine. Great balance although on draft day I'll be screaming unless we get an off the board pick .

 

[GetThePuckOut]

PA had Morrisey but no forwards, Dal Colle was playing with great players while Draisaitl wasn't. That's what I find amazing about his passing as well. 65 assists with no help.

Morrisey was the best scoring defenseman. Draisaitl's go-to play was to pass to him on the point, and Morrisey ended up with 28 goals. A couple other players got 28 and 30 goals, which is pretty decent. Not a star-studded team, but he did have some help at least.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

I compared LD to Hanzal in terms of their style of play - both are not overly fast, but they use their big reach and body to their advantage. Both with decent passing and shooting skills. I have no idea where you get that LD is WORLD CLASS at just about everything, because he's not.

I said we need speed, but you don't think we do? You're delusional. We don't have "tons" of wingers that are fast. Like I said, Paul Byron was our only winger who had the genuine speed to flow by a defender. Glencross can do that on a good day. The rest? Hudler can't, Cammy couldn't, Colborne, Galiardi, and even Baertschi. The wingers we had simply could not.

And you're seriously saying Monahan is a small center? for you.

You don't need 4 HUGE-ass centers to win the Stanley Cup. Are Krejci and Bergeron huge? Did Chicago have huge centers when they won the cup twice? LA has one huge center in Kopitar, but Richards and Stoll aren't exactly huge.


Like I said to Volica, NO, NOT EVERYONE HAS LEON HIGHER. Go to ISS and check it out, sweetheart. Size? They're about the same in height, you can't change that. LD has about 20 lbs on MDC, but that can be changed. Age? MDC is 8 months younger. You could pretty much say that MDC is a year younger. Skill? That might be where opinions clash, because after I've spent about a good full day analyzing LD and MDC, the latter has the better skillset to become a Top 6 forward on an NHL team.


No, they weren't the best team in the CHL. He did get to play with Laughton but that's not what I looked at. MDC beats LD in footspeed, shot, scoring touch, and general offensive sense. He can play center too if you so want. So there, why MDC>LD.

I think we should just agree to disagree and start talking about 2nds and 3rds beause we've all said what we need to say on LD/MDC and it may not matter because maybe Reinhart falls to us so who do you like for 2nds and 3rds

 

[TheClassicK*]

The two biggest things I look for in a prospect are Hockey Sense and confidence. Draisaitl is better in both and I still don't understand why 1. You don't like Draisaitl and 2. You like Dal Colle. I like Dal Colle as much as the next guy but I really love LD. And so far you've stated we have a need for Dal Colle and Draisaitl is Hanzal. Also that Dal Colle is Canadian and Draisaitl is German so lets pick the Canadian (ClassicK)

I like how you pretty much ignore the rest of the things I mentioned. One of the things I also said was that we need a center that has good footspeed, because right now we only have Backlund who relies on good skating and agility in the defensive zone to knock guys off pucks and chase loose pucks. He also has the speed to skate pucks himself into the offensive zone to make plays.

Does Monahan have good footspeed? No, he's shown he is an average NHL skater, which I'm optimistic that it will improve. Is Stajan? Nope. You look at all the other Stanley Cup contenders - Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, LA - their top centers are exceptional skaters. Look at the top-scoring rookies in the last half a decade (I've mentioned it in another post) - one common theme is that they're all great skaters. Speed is the key component to success in the game nowadays, you can't deny that, and we have a lack of it throughout our current Top 6 forward lineup.

 

[GetThePuckOut]

He's not bigger, Draisaitl is much bigger and uses his size better. MDC is better 200ft player but Draisaitl's good as well, i love bithe prospects and think they'll both be great players in the NHL but O have to look at Dal Colle a bit pessimistically for Draisaitl

Draisaitl's an absolute bull for sure. But just from looking at Dal Colle, he doesn't look like a natural ectomorph, like a Seguin or Nugent-Hopkins. He looks like someone who's gonna fill out quite a bit. It's surprising that he's only 180 because from looking at him you'd expect him to be a lot bigger. I suspect that he's gonna put on a lot of muscle in the next few years.

Also I agree that Draisaitl's puck protection is better, but again this is no deficiency on Dal Colle's part. That's another thing that Dal Colle is greatly praised for too.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

I just think Draisaitl's more polished and just great playmaker and love his puck protection. The only fault LD has is speed, skating mechancs are fine. Great balance although on draft day I'll be screaming unless we get an off the board pick .

I compared LD to Hanzal in terms of their style of play - both are not overly fast, but they use their big reach and body to their advantage. Both with decent passing and shooting skills. I have no idea where you get that LD is WORLD CLASS at just about everything, because he's not.

I said we need speed, but you don't think we do? You're delusional. We don't have "tons" of wingers that are fast. Like I said, Paul Byron was our only winger who had the genuine speed to flow by a defender. Glencross can do that on a good day. The rest? Hudler can't, Cammy couldn't, Colborne, Galiardi, and even Baertschi. The wingers we had simply could not.

And you're seriously saying Monahan is a small center? for you.

You don't need 4 HUGE-ass centers to win the Stanley Cup. Are Krejci and Bergeron huge? Did Chicago have huge centers when they won the cup twice? LA has one huge center in Kopitar, but Richards and Stoll aren't exactly huge.


Like I said to Volica, NO, NOT EVERYONE HAS LEON HIGHER. Go to ISS and check it out, sweetheart. Size? They're about the same in height, you can't change that. LD has about 20 lbs on MDC, but that can be changed. Age? MDC is 8 months younger. You could pretty much say that MDC is a year younger. Skill? That might be where opinions clash, because after I've spent about a good full day analyzing LD and MDC, the latter has the better skillset to become a Top 6 forward on an NHL team.


No, they weren't the best team in the CHL. He did get to play with Laughton but that's not what I looked at. MDC beats LD in footspeed, shot, scoring touch, and general offensive sense. He can play center too if you so want. So there, why MDC>LD.

I'm not saying that DC isn't good, he's a great prospect. I just think Draisaitl's a better one. Like I said Draisaitl has much better IQ, Passing and skill than Hanzal.

Our future top 6 wingers will most likely be Klimchuk, Poirier, Baertschi, Gaudreau. All fast. In our HF page one of our strengths is speed/skill wingers.

I didn't say Monahan was small I said he plays smaller than he is

You don't need 4 huge centers you need 4 centers that can play defense. That's what LA, BOS, CHI did. And I don't think after a year of wing MDC can go back to C

Oshawa swept round 1, 2 and did very well in regular season, 1st. Same size but Drasiaitl uses it better. I think Draisaitl will be drafted by Oil anyways so it may be a moot point.

Let's just end this now.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

Draisaitl's an absolute bull for sure. But just from looking at Dal Colle, he doesn't look like a natural ectomorph, like a Seguin or Nugent-Hopkins. He looks like someone who's gonna fill out quite a bit. It's surprising that he's only 180 because from looking at him you'd expect him to be a lot bigger. I suspect that he's gonna put on a lot of muscle in the next few years.

Also I agree that Draisaitl's puck protection is better, but again this is no deficiency on Dal Colle's part. That's another thing that Dal Colle is greatly praised for too.

Dal Colle's also Mr Consistency

 

[GetThePuckOut]

I like how you pretty much ignore the rest of the things I mentioned. One of the things I also said was that we need a center that has good footspeed, because right now we only have Backlund who relies on good skating and agility in the defensive zone to knock guys off pucks and chase loose pucks. He also has the speed to skate pucks himself into the offensive zone to make plays.

Does Monahan have good footspeed? No, he's shown he is an average NHL skater, which I'm optimistic that it will improve. Is Stajan? Nope. You look at all the other Stanley Cup contenders - Chicago, Boston, Pittsburgh, LA - their top centers are exceptional skaters. Look at the top-scoring rookies in the last half a decade (I've mentioned it in another post) - one common theme is that they're all great skaters. Speed is the key component to success in the game nowadays, you can't deny that, and we have a lack of it throughout our current Top 6 forward lineup.

The one concern with Dal Colle and center is; why didn't he play center this year? He didn't play center last year because Laughton and Jenner were the two centers, but what about this year? He didn't play with Laughton, he played on the wing of Cole Cassels.

I think stylistically he plays like a natural center, but it really does make me wonder why he didn't spend any time at that position this year. Cassels isn't better than Dal Colle and only had 43 points last year. So what's the deal with that?

 

[GetThePuckOut]

Dal Colle's also Mr Consistency

Like I say, there's not a single knock against him. He just needs to put on muscle.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

For my 2nds and 3rds I'd like to draft
34th: Jack Dougherty
43rd (Stone trade): Travis Sanheim
Avs: Ryan Collins
64th: Ben Thomas
And trade Pens pick

 

[joeyabs]

I've seen them both play quite a few times. Yes, Dal Colle is a very good passer. And yes, Draisaitls passing is still significantly better. I think people are under-estimating Draisaitls passing and vision. It's like comparing Eric Staal to Joe Thornton. Draft-wise its who you prefer. I'm sure both will be good pros.

 

[Mr Lebowski]

I've seen them both play quite a few times. Yes, Dal Colle is a very good passer. And yes, Draisaitls passing is still significantly better. I think people are under-estimating Draisaitls passing and vision. It's like comparing Eric Staal to Joe Thornton. Draft-wise its who you prefer. I'm sure both will be good pros.

Thos are my two comparisons to the players as well.

Who do we all like for our 2nds? Should we trade into 1st round? If so, who do we draft?

 

[TheClassicK*]

I'm not saying that DC isn't good, he's a great prospect. I just think Draisaitl's a better one. Like I said Draisaitl has much better IQ, Passing and skill than Hanzal.

Our future top 6 wingers will most likely be Klimchuk, Poirier, Baertschi, Gaudreau. All fast. In our HF page one of our strengths is speed/skill wingers.

I didn't say Monahan was small I said he plays smaller than he is

You don't need 4 huge centers you need 4 centers that can play defense. That's what LA, BOS, CHI did. And I don't think after a year of wing MDC can go back to C

Oshawa swept round 1, 2 and did very well in regular season, 1st. Same size but Drasiaitl uses it better. I think Draisaitl will be drafted by Oil anyways so it may be a moot point.

Let's just end this now.

You specifically said we need size in the center position. You never mentioned anything about "4 centers that can play defense", that's what I said. Has LD shown more defensive capabilities than MDC? Maybe, because LD is a center as opposed to MDC. There's no question about MDC's two-way game as well, because that's one of his characteristics to have a good stick, knocking pucks off players. Also, defending in the NHL requires quick feet. It was apparent with Monahan this season, how many times has he been unable to catch up to the speed of certain forwards? You need quick feet for defense too.

 

[joeyabs]

I really like Sanheim, but I think he's played himself into the top 45 or so, so it might not line up for us unless we're prepared to use that high second.

I watched a few Petes games to get a look at Ritchie and came away impressed with Cornel (C/RW) He is slotted to go around 45 as well. Possible high second pick.

Possibly Vanier (D) or Pollock (C) with late second.

Another D that I like is Seibenaler for one of our 3rds. Maybe Iverson (RW) for our later 3rd.

If we did some package to move up with our picks into the middle of the first round I would probably target Tuch (RW) or Fleury (D).

 

[Mr Lebowski]

I really like Sanheim, but I think he's played himself into the top 45 or so, so it might not line up for us unless we're prepared to use that high second.

I watched a few Petes games to get a look at Ritchie and came away impressed with Cornel (C/RW) He is slotted to go around 45 as well. Possible high second pick.

Possibly Vanier (D) or Pollock (C) with late second.

Another D that I like is Seibenaler for one of our 3rds. Maybe Iverson (RW) for our later 3rd.

If we did some package to move up with our picks into the middle of the first round I would probably target Tuch (RW) or Fleury (D).

I like Cornell a lot. Prefer Collins to Vanier. Iverson is a good pick too

 

[theIceWookie]

What's Magyar's strengths and weaknesses? Seems like an interesting prospect

His best asset is his hockey sense. Like Gillies says it's pretty high end. Very good all around player. He's good in the corners with his size.

He's got a pretty good shot too, and some solid playmaking. Sort of a complete top 9/top 6 upside kind of player.

I'm a draft junkee as well. I really like Magyar. He's a complete player with elite hockey sense. Wants the puck on his stick. Very good forechecker and backchecker. And plays a good cycle game. He hasn't scored a lot this year (46 points in 66 games) but he's among the top rookie scorers.

In recent years the Rangers haven't really been a high scoring team. He didn't score much but he still led the team in points, beating out MacInnis and Justin Bailey. He was third in goals behind Bailey and Llewellyn too. which is pretty impressive as a rookie.

I think he's a fairly safe pick at this stage of the draft. Likely has NHL upside as a top 9 forward, with potential to be a 2nd line winger

 

[theIceWookie]

Age? MDC is 8 months younger. You could pretty much say that MDC is a year younger. Skill? That might be where opinions clash, because after I've spent about a good full day analyzing LD and MDC, the latter has the better skillset to become a Top 6 forward on an NHL team.


No, they weren't the best team in the CHL. He did get to play with Laughton but that's not what I looked at. MDC beats LD in footspeed, shot, scoring touch, and general offensive sense. He can play center too if you so want. So there, why MDC>LD.

General offensive sense? I'd call bull on that. Draisaitl's offensive sense is better than Dal Colle's. Dal Colle having a better shot isn't really enough to push him above Draisaitl IMO.

And Dal Colle is younger but that's not necessarily indicative of having more more room to grow. It could mean that but that's not always the case.

They have the same number of years in the CHL, and both times Draisaitl outperformed Dal Colle while working with less.

And the Hanzal comparison is awful. Size and reach don't make a good comparable. Kopitar is almost a better comparison than Hanzal and that's still not a great one. Draisaitl's offensive game is levels above Hanzal's at the same time in their development.

Dal Colle over Draisaitl is something I'd consider but not to the level you are making it out to be. You haven't really said anything conclusive that would put Dal Colle over Draisaitl besides skating and shot (as offensive sense is flawed, age isn't really an end all argument, and scoring touch is bull). Dal Colle is a better skater but it's not like he's MacKinnon.