Calgary Flames 2014 Draft Thread Part Deux

theIceWookie

#LeafHysteriaAlert
Dec 19, 2010
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You specifically said we need size in the center position. You never mentioned anything about "4 centers that can play defense", that's what I said. Has LD shown more defensive capabilities than MDC? Maybe, because LD is a center as opposed to MDC. There's no question about MDC's two-way game as well, because that's one of his characteristics to have a good stick, knocking pucks off players. Also, defending in the NHL requires quick feet. It was apparent with Monahan this season, how many times has he been unable to catch up to the speed of certain forwards? You need quick feet for defense too.

Kopitar was just nominated for the Selke. His biggest weakness has always been his skating. Didn't limit him, so the foot speed argument is sort of moot.

And it's not like it can't be worked on. It's pretty easily recognized that it's a workable trait.
 

theIceWookie

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Dec 19, 2010
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The one concern with Dal Colle and center is; why didn't he play center this year? He didn't play center last year because Laughton and Jenner were the two centers, but what about this year? He didn't play with Laughton, he played on the wing of Cole Cassels.

I think stylistically he plays like a natural center, but it really does make me wonder why he didn't spend any time at that position this year. Cassels isn't better than Dal Colle and only had 43 points last year. So what's the deal with that?

I doubt he'll ever be a center again. Didn't play it last year, and didn't this year. The Generals will probably graduate Cassels to the top line and have Dal Colle flank him with Smith.
 
May 27, 2012
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Well at this point Draisatl is more enticing because he played Center the entire season, compared to MDC who may have played a couple of times. When Laughton leaves though MDC goes back to center. Either way still two good players.
 

CraigsList

In Conroy We Trust
Apr 22, 2014
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Honestly guys, we are taking this #4th overall pick way too hard.

I used to be 75/25 Dal Colle over Draisaitl, but I am starting to think that we will be drafting a center regardless and am now 50/50 on Dal Colle/Draisaitl. You go Reinhart/Bennett/Draisaitl if the first two are picked. Don't get me wrong, Dal Colle is amazing, would be a huge asset to the team. I agree he is quicker and has a hell of a shot, but Drasaitl has more of a hockey IQ, moving the puck ability.

Burke clearly stated that new GM Treliving is in charge of the drafting, and with what Treliving said, we'll probably be picking Draisaitl.


“I firmly believe you build your team from the back out,” he said. “It starts in goal, but it’s built on the blue line. If you go back in Phoenix’s draft history, we’ve taken a lot of defensemen. It’s built up through the center of the ice, so you go defensemen-centericemen.”

http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=717264&navid=DL|CGY|home

Drafting at #4 is going to be wonderful for the Flames. Reinhart/Bennett/Draisaitl/Dal Colle is a win-win-win-win.
 

theIceWookie

#LeafHysteriaAlert
Dec 19, 2010
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Well at this point Draisatl is more enticing because he played Center the entire season, compared to MDC who may have played a couple of times. When Laughton leaves though MDC goes back to center. Either way still two good players.

I'm not sure Dal Colle will be a center next year. Cassels is the obvious choice for first line center on the Generals, and Josh sterk has been fairly impressive in the playoffs and in the past season. It probably makes more sense to have those two take over the top 6 roles, than to transition a guy who has been almost exclusively a LW into a brand new role.

Of course I could be completely wrong, but I'm starting to suspect that Dal Colle will only be a LW in his OHL career.
 

theIceWookie

#LeafHysteriaAlert
Dec 19, 2010
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Honestly guys, we are taking this #4th overall pick way too hard.

I used to be 75/25 Dal Colle over Draisaitl, but I am starting to think that we will be drafting a center regardless and am now 50/50 on Dal Colle/Draisaitl. You go Reinhart/Bennett/Draisaitl if the first two are picked. Don't get me wrong, Dal Colle is amazing, would be a huge asset to the team. I agree he is quicker and has a hell of a shot, but Drasaitl has more of a hockey IQ, moving the puck ability.

Burke clearly stated that new GM Treliving is in charge of the drafting, and with what Treliving said, we'll probably be picking Draisaitl.




http://flames.nhl.com/club/news.htm?id=717264&navid=DL|CGY|home

Drafting at #4 is going to be wonderful for the Flames. Reinhart/Bennett/Draisaitl/Dal Colle is a win-win-win-win.

As much as I want Draisaitl over Dal Colle, i'll hardly be displeased if its Dal Colle. I think the Flames are positioned to get a great player no matter who it is.

Like you said it's a situation that is pretty much just a win.
 

Johnny Hoxville

The Return of a Legend
Jul 15, 2006
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I really think Kopitar is a very real projection for Draisaitl. I also would be thrilled with MDC, so I'm happy either way.
 

Noori

Registered User
Jul 7, 2007
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I'll be happy with whoever we pick at four. First draft ever where I'm not going to worry too much about what scouts are saying, who HF has firmly decided will be better, etc. I trust Todd Button and our scouting staff and I'm confident they'll take the best player available at four.
 

Lunatik

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Oct 12, 2012
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I think Draisaitl and Dal Colle are pretty even, so I choose the centre with the cooler name.

Leon Draisaitl win.
 

CraigsList

In Conroy We Trust
Apr 22, 2014
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If Buffalo picks Draisaitl or Bennett, Edmonton most likely will pick the other.

Reinhart getting into our hands depends on the pick of Buffalo.
 

TheClassicK*

Guest
General offensive sense? I'd call bull on that. Draisaitl's offensive sense is better than Dal Colle's. Dal Colle having a better shot isn't really enough to push him above Draisaitl IMO.

And Dal Colle is younger but that's not necessarily indicative of having more more room to grow. It could mean that but that's not always the case.

They have the same number of years in the CHL, and both times Draisaitl outperformed Dal Colle while working with less.

And the Hanzal comparison is awful. Size and reach don't make a good comparable. Kopitar is almost a better comparison than Hanzal and that's still not a great one. Draisaitl's offensive game is levels above Hanzal's at the same time in their development.

Dal Colle over Draisaitl is something I'd consider but not to the level you are making it out to be. You haven't really said anything conclusive that would put Dal Colle over Draisaitl besides skating and shot (as offensive sense is flawed, age isn't really an end all argument, and scoring touch is bull). Dal Colle is a better skater but it's not like he's MacKinnon.
I guess that's where opinions clash. If you think LD is better offensively, sure, go ahead and think that way. What I've seen has proved the opposite.

As for the Hanzal comparison, I can't find any Youtube videos to support my argument but I fully remember watching him in games and highlights for Red Deer because I wanted to see both of the Sutters play, and I was amazed by his dominance in the games that I've watched. I'm saying their styles have similarities because simply as I've reiterated, they both use size to their advantage to protect the puck, both are great playmakers, and both are not overly fast. That's it. I also don't think LD's offensive game is "levels above" Hanzal's at the same time in their careers, because that's a terrible overstatement.

As for your last paragraph, I have no idea why you call scoring touch "bull", because that's a clear trait of players. The ability to finish plays, pick one-timers, hands around the net, etc - that's what you call scoring touch, or finishing, or whatever the hell you want to call it. And age IS a bit of an "end all argument". If Dal Colle suddenly develops 8 months and is at the exact same stage as Draisaitl, who do you think will be better? Especially if the choice between the two is as close as it is, you can't completely ignore the fact that they are basically a year apart.

Dal Colle is not MacKinnon, but he's still a much better skater than Draisaitl. His skating involves such powerful strides and balance, and his ability to get around defenders with pure speed is exactly what we need at the moment.

Kopitar was just nominated for the Selke. His biggest weakness has always been his skating. Didn't limit him, so the foot speed argument is sort of moot.

And it's not like it can't be worked on. It's pretty easily recognized that it's a workable trait.
Kopitar has probably been one of the league's elite two-way centers for the last five seasons, and does he use his skating abilities in the defensive zone? Yes he does. I can't believe you're saying "his biggest weakness has always been his skating", that's where I know you don't exactly know what kind of a player Anze Kopitar is. Your statement is false. It's not the best part of his game, but he still has the skating abilities to get around as good as anyone his size.

And yes, it can be worked on. But why are every scouts so obsessed about the prospects' skating abilities? Is it something that you can dramatically and significantly improve? No. It's absolutely foolish to think you won't consider a player's skating because it can be improved later on.
 

TheClassicK*

Guest
We already have a Kopitar on our team in Monahan, IMHO. Monahan won't be as fast and individually skilled as Toews (and even in the same time in their development), and he likely won't put up +70 pts every season.

That's why we need some more "elite" scoring-prospects in our system. Enough of those "2nd/3rd line at best" types of prospects, aim for those high-calibre 1st line talent. It's that kind of average thoughts and philosophies of Darryl Sutter that got us into this mess in the first place.
 

Mr Lebowski

Go Flames
Feb 18, 2014
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I agree with everything theIceWookie has said. LD has more skill with the puck and his offensive sense is much better than MDC although Dal Colle does have a lot of hockey sense.

The Hanzal comparison is still absurd. Draisaitl's two best qualities are his I.Q and passing. Hanzal didn't have either of those qualites.

Age isn't an end all argument. They've played the same amount of years in the CHL.

Kopitar's biggest weakness has always been hos skating and remember that was a big worry with Monahan, his skating. Draisaitl's balance is very good and speed can be taught. Also our biggest need isn't speed off the wing. Scoring left wingers are one of our biggest strengths. On pur HF page it says under strengths, speedy wingers
 

TheClassicK*

Guest
Hell, it's pointless arguing with you isn't it? Do yourself a favour and read my comments again, word for word. I compared their style of play FFS. It's not absurd. Hanzal may not have had what you call "IQ" because I don't remember that aspect, it was like 7 years back when I watched him. But the style of play he showed is still clear to me. I saw similarities in their style of play, hence I made the comparison. And FYI, Hanzal did have great passing abilities, so don't make assumptions when you clearly have not a clue how he played in juniors.

And I'm guessing you haven't closely seen Kopitar's game, because his skating has not been his biggest weakness. And why does skating being a "big worry with Monahan" have to do anything with "Kopitar's biggest weakness"? It's painful reading your comments, no sense throughout whatsoever.
 

GetThePuckOut

Registered User
Mar 8, 2010
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I don't like the hyperbole you use. Draisaitl's offensive sense is not 'much better' than Dal Colle's. I also don't think he has more skill with the puck; Dal Colle is a terrific stickhandler.

When it comes to player comparisons, I don't like Eric Staal for Dal Colle. He plays exactly like Malkin. That was my first impression, and I've seen other posters and even scouts say that the similarity is uncanny. They're both great skaters, that can shoot and make plays equally well. Dal Colle is not the pure sniper he's being painted as here. He's a 50/50 player. He had 12 assists in 12 playoff games this year. He's a much better playmaker than you guys are making him out to be.
 

InfinityIggy

Zagidulin's Dad
Jan 30, 2011
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Hell, it's pointless arguing with you isn't it? Do yourself a favour and read my comments again, word for word. I compared their style of play FFS. It's not absurd. Hanzal may not have had what you call "IQ" because I don't remember that aspect, it was like 7 years back when I watched him. But the style of play he showed is still clear to me. I saw similarities in their style of play, hence I made the comparison. And FYI, Hanzal did have great passing abilities, so don't make assumptions when you clearly have not a clue how he played in juniors.

And I'm guessing you haven't closely seen Kopitar's game, because his skating has not been his biggest weakness. And why does skating being a "big worry with Monahan" have to do anything with "Kopitar's biggest weakness"? It's painful reading your comments, no sense throughout whatsoever.

How come all of your posts always say "I guess you haven't seen ____, because..."

Literally every post I see from you. :laugh: Not trying to pick on you but its uncanny.
 

TheClassicK*

Guest
How come all of your posts always say "I guess you haven't seen ____, because..."

Literally every post I see from you. :laugh: Not trying to pick on you but its uncanny.

Well, it's irritating when those guys say things without having the sufficient knowledge to back it up. I mean, Kopitar's biggest weakness is his skating? It's certainly not his best asset, but it's pretty darn good enough to get him around.
 

Anglesmith

Setting up the play?
Sep 17, 2012
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Well, it's irritating when those guys say things without having the sufficient knowledge to back it up. I mean, Kopitar's biggest weakness is his skating? It's certainly not his best asset, but it's pretty darn good enough to get him around.

So what would you say is his biggest weakness, then? If not skating, then you must find another part of his game to be lacking.
 

YMCMBYOLO

WEDABEST
Mar 30, 2009
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Well, it's irritating when those guys say things without having the sufficient knowledge to back it up. I mean, Kopitar's biggest weakness is his skating? It's certainly not his best asset, but it's pretty darn good enough to get him around.


I don't think that's what they mean, though. While Kopitar has no 'weakness' perse, I do believe skating would be his weakest point as a player, you know? Of course, his skating is still pretty good, but if he were to improve one thing, it would be his skating.
 

Mr Lebowski

Go Flames
Feb 18, 2014
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Hell, it's pointless arguing with you isn't it? Do yourself a favour and read my comments again, word for word. I compared their style of play FFS. It's not absurd. Hanzal may not have had what you call "IQ" because I don't remember that aspect, it was like 7 years back when I watched him. But the style of play he showed is still clear to me. I saw similarities in their style of play, hence I made the comparison. And FYI, Hanzal did have great passing abilities, so don't make assumptions when you clearly have not a clue how he played in juniors.

And I'm guessing you haven't closely seen Kopitar's game, because his skating has not been his biggest weakness. And why does skating being a "big worry with Monahan" have to do anything with "Kopitar's biggest weakness"? It's painful reading your comments, no sense throughout whatsoever.

Their styles are the same but you were saying that Draisaitl could easily turn outlike him where Hanzal is lacking Draisaitl's two best qualities. I think Kopitar's biggest weakness is his skating and you still haven't said what is his weakness.

I mentioned Monahan becasue you're very concerned about LD's skating. People were worried about Monahan's skating.

I think Draisaitl is the better player although I think Dal Colle is a great player.

But LD is a great passer and playmaker, he makes defenders play his game at his speed. Thriceson the rush or on the cycle game. Has a quick release kn his shot and is very accurate. Draisaitl is very good with the puck and is creative. Has elite hockey sense and plays a great 200ft game. Protects the puck very well. He uses defenemen for screens on his shot. Draisaitl has great balance also and uses his size to get position. Draisaitl can take control of the game.

Dal Colle is also a good passer. Great vision on the rush and able to make passes out offp the corner. Dal Colle has a great shot and the puck seems to find him. He has speed that he uses to blow defenders on the outside or go up the middle. Syrong kn the cycle game uses his size well. Great backchecker. Very consistent.
 

Mr Lebowski

Go Flames
Feb 18, 2014
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ClassicK, I have a few questions for you

If we drafted 5th and Ekblad, Reinhart, Bennett, Dal Colle were off the board, would you take Draisaitl?

If not, why?
 

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