Player Discussion Brady Tkachuk (LW) - Part VI

[GoMyTeam]

Dorion caving on these negotiations only for Oster to pull the same thing next year with Norris would be so frustrating.

Make him sit the start of the season if we have to, Brady missing the start of this season is easier to swallow than Norris missing the start of next season.

 

[Sun God Nika]

ya negotiations should go public if he starts missing regular season games. Thats the point where fans start to get mad and we should know which side is causing it

 

[Alex The Loyal]

If after all these years, after all the failures, Sens fans are still thinking of blaming the players in these situations instead of ownership, then we are truly doomed. When will people learn?

 

[Knave]

It doesn't really matter if Tkachuk is playing hardball. It doesn't matter if the franchise will survive and not fold if we can't sign him.

My hope for the team (and I would hope this is true for others) is that we don't just survive... we thrive, build a playoff team and eventually a contender. People are acting like they're ready to walk away from a 22 year old who hasn't exactly been surrounded by talent. Is 8M too much? Sure. The Chicago Blackhawks seemed to win with 7.1 million Brian Campbell all those years ago.

We're at the cap floor. Chicago was at the ceiling. They overpaid for a guy and it still worked out and they won a cup. Overpayments can happen. Mistakes can happen.

At least after Alfredsson left we panic signed Bobby Ryan and made a few playoff runs. Now we're at a point where people want to give up on up and coming pieces, key young pieces.

 

[Wallet Inspector]

If after all these years, after all the failures, Sens fans are still thinking of blaming the players in these situations instead of ownership, then we are truly doomed. When will people learn?

If Brady is rejecting 8x8, then yeah actually the fault is with him.

 

[PatrickEaves]

If Brady is rejecting 8x8, then yeah actually the fault is with him.

If Brady doesn't want to sign long term because he doesn't believe that the owner is willing to spend to the cap to build a contender around him, do you blame the player or ownership?

 

[BankStreetParade]

If after all these years, after all the failures, Sens fans are still thinking of blaming the players in these situations instead of ownership, then we are truly doomed. When will people learn?

They signed Chabot, White, Murray and Batherson to long term deals. They filled the cupboard with exciting prospects. They locked down their coaching staff and GM. They brought in a guy like McGuire to help in the front office. One guy, who comes from a family hell bent on being the most difficult people to negotiate with in the NHL, takes a little longer than expected to lock down and you're willing to sewer the organization over it? And you actually have the gall to ask when will people learn?

You don't have a neutral opinion on this subject so don't f***ing pretend that everyone else isn't thinking clearly here.

 

[5ive4Fighting]

If Brady doesn't want to sign long term because he doesn't believe that the owner is willing to spend to the cap to build a contender around him, do you blame the player or ownership?

This is about Tkachuk getting what he thinks he deserves. Take his brother at his word.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

They signed Chabot, White, Murray and Batherson to long term deals. They filled the cupboard with exciting prospects. They locked down their coaching staff and GM. They brought in a guy like McGuire to help in the front office. One guy, who comes from a family hell bent on being the most difficult people to negotiate with in the NHL, takes a little longer than expected to lock down and you're willing to sewer the organization over it? And you actually have the gall to ask when will people learn?

You don't have a neutral opinion on this subject so don't f***ing pretend that everyone else isn't thinking clearly here.

Bradys the most important man on the team, much like the other big guns that we binned off. And just like with the other big guns we are failing to pay him. When we're below the salary floor, I'm sorry but that's unacceptable. Signing the others you listed there was promising signs for change, but this current saga just shows that absolutely nothing has changed with the Sens.

 

[BankStreetParade]

If Brady doesn't want to sign long term because he doesn't believe that the owner is willing to spend to the cap to build a contender around him, do you blame the player or ownership?

The team can only sign the young talent as they come out of their ELCs. There's already been several mock ups of what this team's salary cap structure could look like when the current wave of young stars graduates from their ELCs and it's a pretty damn expensive roster without any outside additions. Maybe the team is waiting to see how things shake out with what they currently have before they start allocating parts of their cap space to UFAs?

 

[BondraTime]

Bradys the most important man on the team, much like the other big guns that we binned off. And just like with the other big guns we are failing to pay him. When we're below the salary floor, I'm sorry but that's unacceptable. Signing the others you listed there was promising signs for change, but this current saga just shows that absolutely nothing has changed with the Sens.

Us failing to pay for him is a made up in your head scenario based on your extremely, extremely evident bias.

Sens have made a huge offer to him. He hasn’t accepted it. If you offer the sink to someone and they still don’t sign, not much else you can do. Flames offered a gigantic deal to Matt, he still refused to sign it.

The Tkachuk’s, every single one of them, held out on their contracts. This isn’t surprising, whatsoever. It’s very possible that Brady, just like his brother Matt, is refusing a long term deal regardless of money because he wants to get to UFA as soon as possible. There’s nothing wrong with Calgary ownership, they went through the exact same thing.

 

[BankStreetParade]

Bradys the most important man on the team, much like the other big guns that we binned off. And just like with the other big guns we are failing to pay him. When we're below the salary floor, I'm sorry but that's unacceptable. Signing the others you listed there was promising signs for change, but this current saga just shows that absolutely nothing has changed with the Sens.

That's your opinion and I just wrote a post showing how things are slowly changing for the Sens. It's your right to overlook the progress and see what you want to see but it doesn't mean you're right.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

That's your opinion and I just wrote a post showing how things are slowly changing for the Sens. It's your right to overlook the progress and see what you want to see but it doesn't mean you're right.

What you call progress, I call doing the absolute bare minimum.

We're a team that's hugging the salary floor (sometimes even find ways to circumvent it). Signing those guys is not some incredible accomplishment at all.

Signing Brady, a fan favourite and by rights captain, to a long term deal, forking over signing bonus which has been one of the the big hurdles for years and years, would be the sign that things have changed. But they haven't. We're taking too long, clubs already trying to sway fans with takes of oh home town discount and he's asking too much etc. It's unparalleled failure

 

[Flamingo]

If after all these years, after all the failures, Sens fans are still thinking of blaming the players in these situations instead of ownership, then we are truly doomed. When will people learn?

Nearly everyone know Eugene’a finances and ego are a big handicap in these situations. But you can’t ignore Oster and the Tkachuks playing hard ball too. I don’t get the people that put all the blame on one party considering we don’t know anything.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

Nearly everyone know Eugene’a finances and ego are a big handicap in these situations. But you can’t ignore Oster and the Tkachuks playing hard ball too. I don’t get the people that put all the blame on one party considering we don’t know anything.

True. We all know what the Tkachuks are like. But at end of day for me, based off history alone, and just sports in general, never ever put the blame on the players over the owners. Brady has every right to want to get paid and Sens fans have every right to be angry that he still isn't and get worried that this is turning into another Mark Stone situation where the process of getting rid of him is already possibly happening.

Out of fairness I'd say the blame is 65/35 towards Sens Ownership. Tkachuks probably don't help that much we know but at end of day based off history alone with all our lost stars we know where the problem is. Tkachuks will know that and be weary of it as well and may even use it to their advantage

 

[GCK]

did you hear the one about the grocery store being able to make more money somewhere else? So it picked up and moved?

It might be time to let that go. Jesus that’s 4 years ago.

 

[Agent Zub]

I keep reading that the most important player on the team is Tkachuk.

Did Chabot cease to exist?

 

[Silencio]

I keep reading that the most important player on the team is Tkachuk.

Did Chabot cease to exist?

Hell Stutzle might make a claim to that title as early as this season.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

Hell Stutzle might make a claim to that title as early as this season.

Fair enough. What hope do we have of keeping him if we can't even keep his best friend and captain. If Stutzle becomes the star we expect him to be then dear me he will be expensive

 

[Grizwald]

Us failing to pay for him is a made up in your head scenario based on your extremely, extremely evident bias.

Sens have made a huge offer to him. He hasn’t accepted it. If you offer the sink to someone and they still don’t sign, not much else you can do. Flames offered a gigantic deal to Matt, he still refused to sign it.

The Tkachuk’s, every single one of them, held out on their contracts. This isn’t surprising, whatsoever. It’s very possible that Brady, just like his brother Matt, is refusing a long term deal regardless of money because he wants to get to UFA as soon as possible. There’s nothing wrong with Calgary ownership, they went through the exact same thing.

I think the Sens 8 x 8 offer is more than a fair offer, no question. It's unfortunate the Tkackuk family/agent is playing hardball now because signing Tkackuk is critical for the Senators organization going forward, mostly to begin the healing process for past self-destructive indiscretions by the owner.

If Melnyk is to be believed, he's "all-in for a five-year run of unparalleled success,” and he plans to spend "close to the NHL’s salary cap every year from 2021–25". The Sens are probably going to be closer to the cap floor than ceiling for the 2021/22 season, and I believe the Tkackuk family realizes this and is one reason why they're hesitant to sign long term - they have Melnyk up against a wall with his own words. I'm hoping beyond hope that this contract negotiation doesn't end up being another tire fire situation, there have been too many of those memes posted on this board already over the last four years.

 

[Agent Zub]

Hell Stutzle might make a claim to that title as early as this season.

And Norris, and Sanderson the following season.

And we can't even count out Batherson becoming a 70 pt forward yet.

 

[Alex The Loyal]

I think the Sens 8 x 8 offer is more than a fair offer, no question. It's unfortunate the Tkackuk family/agent is playing hardball now because signing Tkackuk is critical for the Senators organization going forward, mostly to begin the healing process for past self-destructive indiscretions by the owner.

If Melnyk is to be believed, he's "all-in for a five-year run of unparalleled success,” and he plans to spend "close to the NHL’s salary cap every year from 2021–25". The Sens are probably going to be closer to the cap floor than ceiling for the 2021/22 season, and I believe the Tkackuk family realizes this and is one reason why they're hesitant to sign long term - they have Melnyk up against a wall with his own words. I'm hoping beyond hope that this contract negotiation doesn't end up being another tire fire situation, there have been too many of those memes posted on this board already over the last four years.

Excellent stuff this.

I'm already dreading Melnyk using Covid as an excuse for not really sticking to his word.

And of course that'll just lead to even more discourse of People believing him or not (I certainly wouldn't). It's all just set up to be a complete mess again

 

[aragorn]

Agree with everything you said aside from White, not sure what he brings to assist a checking/ defensive line. Forementon - Paul - Brown would be a strong 3rd line in the NHL I believe.

And that's possible especially after the TDL when Tierny is likely traded, I could see Paul moving to either 3rd or 4th line centre. I think White has to have a good yr by then to stay on the 3rd line. The other possibility would be if they decided to call up Kastelic who also plays a style that DJ likes & is good at faceoffs & could be a good 4th line centre.

I mean the moment he landed in Vegas I'm fairly sure he was quoted in saying something like "it's nice to be at a team that wants to compete" or something. It's obvious that the Ottawa Senators are the problem child here. Not the players.

Hell I think even Pageau even said something similar? I can't fully remember and I'm.not looking it up so apologies if I'm wrong there

I have yet to hear a player say they hate the team they were traded to & don't want to be there. It's also a different situation where Ottawa was rebuilding & Stone was in the prime of his career wanting to win now & not be part of another rebuild. The Sens have & are rebuilding & there was no chance of them challenging for a cup during Stone's prime. Sometimes it's just reality & timing & it was time to move on from the old crew & look to the future with a new crew. The team had one lucky run in the last number of yrs with EK, Stone, Pageau & the rest, they weren't very good anyway & were barely playoff contenders & certainly not SC contenders.

IMO these negotiations will eventually end & Tkachuk will return, but if he only wants a bridge deal you can't blame the Sens for doing everything they can no matter how long it takes to try & sign him for a much longer term. And my guess is that it's what they are trying to do to get him to sign for a longer term now. That's just good business from their stand point & they have to try everything to see if they will bite. If Brady's team is firm that they want the bridge deal or bonuses or whatever it is & won't sign until they get it, the Sens IMO will eventually cave in & give him whatever amount of term/money they want within reason. They need him more than he needs them, there are 31 other teams that would take him in a heart beat. It's also not this negotiation that will be difficult, but the next one when he asks for the moon & if we don't give it to him someone else will. He's the kind of player every team wants & needs.

 

[TheDebater]

If Brady doesn't want to sign long term because he doesn't believe that the owner is willing to spend to the cap to build a contender around him, do you blame the player or ownership?

I have heard this opinion thrown out a few times and I cannot help but laugh at the irony of it...

So the Senators have recently signed Chabot, White, Murray and Batherson to substantial long term contracts, and then they approach Tkachuk with a massive 8x8 contract....and you think that Tkachuk feels that ownership is not committed to building a contender around him?

Does a 64 million dollar offer to a 22 year old who has not actually scored more than 45 points thus far in his career not indicate that ownership is trying to build a contender by signing its own drafted players?

 

[aragorn]

If after all these years, after all the failures, Sens fans are still thinking of blaming the players in these situations instead of ownership, then we are truly doomed. When will people learn?

Come on, ownership & management alike have taken plenty of heat over the last number of yrs over all kinds of issues & debates & deservedly so & they continue to. However, that does not take away from the greed of the market in elevating player salaries to amounts normal people feel are outrageous especially if the divide is regarding bonus money which I find hard to believe.

While some may think it greed & others think it's market value, these negotiations from the players point of view are setting him up for future negotiations too. While the salary is substantial it's the term & what he can expect for the next set of negotiations that are important here for the player. The shorter the term the more he can make with the next contract & that is what they are banking on IMO. The bonus money is just gravy & if they can get some well good for them, but I find it hard to think that it would stop the progress of these talks.

I think it comes down to term, bridge deal for Brady's side & long term from management's side. We can't blame management for trying everything they can to get the player to sign long term but we also can't blame the player for trying everything they can for a bridge deal that could set up the next deal up to be an even bigger pay day. As fans we just want the guy signed so he's in the lineup but from the business side the player is trying to get as much as possible while management is trying to minimize the amount it pays out to one player now & in future.