I love Alzner, but we as Caps fans (myself included) definitely overrate him.
its not worth arguing about, buddy, but you are lost on Karl Alzner. He does not need and is not being carried by another defenseman.
the funny things is that nhl teams would lineup to sign Alzner at that price.
If NHL teams are lining up to sign Alzner at 6 million, I would happily let them take him. He isn't a 6 million dollar player, especially not on a long-term deal.
I love Alzner, but we as Caps fans (myself included) definitely overrate him.
overrate him how? how is he rated and how should he be rated in your opinion?
He doesn't need to be carried to contribute, sure. But Niskanen has elevated the perception of Alzner greatly IMO and that's what I meant by "carrying" him so I should have been more clear. Alzner is probably best suited as a second pairing defensive D and first unit PKer and those absolutely are not worth $5.5M+ long term, especially when alternatives are out there for much cheaper.
People forget that Niskanen was one of the best defensive defensemen in the league before he got to Washington while Alzner was very middling in that regard. That's why I attribute most of the pairing's defensive success to Niskanen rather than Alzner.
This is part of the reason I wanted to see Alzner apart from Niskanen to see what sort of defensive impact he has on a player like John Carlson who is certainly no Matt Niskanen when it comes to defense.
He doesn't need to be carried to contribute, sure. But Niskanen has elevated the perception of Alzner greatly IMO and that's what I meant by "carrying" him so I should have been more clear. Alzner is probably best suited as a second pairing defensive D and first unit PKer and those absolutely are not worth $5.5M+ long term, especially when alternatives are out there for much cheaper.
People forget that Niskanen was one of the best defensive defensemen in the league before he got to Washington while Alzner was very middling in that regard. That's why I attribute most of the pairing's defensive success to Niskanen rather than Alzner.
not sure those guys know what they are talking about. they are calling him a top pair d and so on. didn't see anyone on the first page at least that said he was overrated. they are not in the game, so what can they know. eh?
best suited for the second pair. just to be clear on your definition of that. 1st pair is who you match up against Bergeron, Stamkos, McDavid, and so on. You would use Orlov rather than Alzner for that?
Or are you saying that 1st pair is an offensive pair and that you match up pair is the 2nd?
Is Carlson now going to carry Alzner?
Do you think Alzner could be reasonably replaced by a series of one year contract aging veterans like Hainsey?
And...can you think of a top 4 shut down defender defenseman that you could get that is both as good as Alzner and significantly cheaper. accent on that you could get.
Most non-Caps fans actually saw Karl Alzner as one of the best defensive players in the league and Matt Niskanen as the solid two-way defender who caught tons of points in his FA year because Letang was out and the points were raining in because he got to play PP1 with Malkin and Crosby. Nobody thought of Niskanen as one of the best defensive D's in the league in his Penguins days.
I usually agree with twabby, but I think you are way off base on Alzner. He has been the Caps best and most consistent shutdown d man since he graduated from the bears. He is not someone who will ever put up points, but he eats minutes and almost always makes the most correct and safest decisions.
And I don't know what you are watching if you think Niskanen is somehow carrying Alzner. if anything Alzner has elevated every offensive D he has played with.
Broadly speaking, Caps fans have largely called him a top pairing shutdown defender. They refer to Alzner as a defenseman they aren't afraid to match against the opponent's top forwards.overrate him how? how is he rated and how should he be rated in your opinion?
Agreed.
Although most people propably just agrees that this team is not going to win without him. The LHD depth behind him is non-existant for the future, and the LHD FA market is absolutely brutal. Lucas Johansen is a bright spot but i don't expect him to be a major performer at the NHL level for atleast 3 more years. Jonas Siegenthaler is a bit of a wild-card but i'm not sure if he has top-4 potential.
A shut-down defender as good as him, probably not. But I wouldn't want to overpay significantly to keep him, especially not with who's coming off the books this offseason. If Alzner thinks he can get 6 mil per on the open market, I'd look to replace him with a cheaper two-way guy. That would probably have to come via trade because the defenseman FA crop looks somewhat weak outside of Shattenkirk.
So we lose Alzner AND we have to pony up to get a more affordable but probably not as good defensively replacement via a likely costly trade?
Sounds like a lose-lose.
Yes, that's exactly my point. I don't really think Alzner is anything special other than being an iron-man which is notable but ultimately doesn't mean much when it comes to playoff success.
Subtract what...$1.5 mil worth of cap space? $6 mil vs. 4.5.
If it's that vs having to go trade for a proven guy who can capably fill his role, I'd stroke the check myself. You're trying to trade for a good player and contract in a thin market.
Sign Alzner and this nonsense can go away.
That same logic applies to whichever other position you have to shave that $1.5M budget away from. For instance, first line right wing.
So we lose Alzner AND we have to pony up to get a more affordable but probably not as good defensively replacement via a likely costly trade?
Sounds like a lose-lose.