Speculation: Acq./Rost. Bldg./Cap/Lines etc. Part LXXVI (Winning...MEH)

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Jags

Mildly Disturbed
May 5, 2016
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I don't think anyone is clearly advocating for Alzner's departure, just that they'd rather not overpay him. Sign him for too much and you have no shot at Oshie, period. Unless you unload Orpik and/or Eller/Winnik, we can't afford all of the necessary raises it'll take to keep Alzner, Oshie, and Kuznetsov.

Regardless of what everyone might feel about Alzner, he's absolutely an impact defenseman worth keeping if the price is right. But I think anything higher than $4.5 for him could be too much. Maybe $5m. But I don't think there's any question he can get more than that in free agency, so it all will likely boil down to how much he wants to stay (if at all)...
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
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my basic rule on this is that legit top 4 defensemen are hard to get. they are very hard and rare to trade for. they are hard to get via UFA market and then they are very expensive.

If Orpik is over the hill and traded for not much to move his contract this off season, and Alzner leaves as a UFA. Who plays defense on this team? Legit top 4 defensemen.

There are a lot of teams out there that need top 4 defensemen. More than one. The Caps have 4 good one's. Letting Alzner go would very likely be a big step backward.

Unless you think Alzner can be replaced by a year to year Scott Hannan type.

The whole team may well be taking a step backwards next year due to contact situations (and the expansion draft). The simple reality is that they cannot keep this entire group of player together. They are going to lose one or two players they would prefer to keep, and are likely going to have to replace some of those holes with cheap internal options. They're going to have to carefully evaluate the path forward. It may not make sense to overspend long term for a one or two year bump if the rest of the team isn't going to be ready to contend for a Stanley Cup in 2017-18. They can operate off a year-to-year solution if their next window won't be for a couple seasons.
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
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Not as good defensively but better in transition, which this team needs more of from the backend. Use the saved cap space to improve other areas of the roster. Seems reasonable.

Again this assumes Alzner is at 6 million + per year on a long-term contract. If he's willing to re-sign at ~5 mil per then I'd do that.

where do you get a solid 2/3 level defenseman that is good in transition and cheaper than Alzner while being almost as good as he is overall?

This is part I don't get. that player as a UFA is more expensive. That player in his restricted years is unobtanium.
 

MW6

Registered User
Oct 21, 2011
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I know we're really zoned in on this Alzner situation. But i want to express an opinion about the Caps struggling PP.

Why don't they try to mirror the set up for PP2 to make other teams adjust a lot more. Its looked the same for 4 years and it seems like teams are learning all the wrinkles.

PP1
Ovechkin-Wilson(Connolly)-Kuznetsov(Johansson)
Carlson-Backstrom

PP2
Williams-Vrana-Burakovsky
Oshie-Orlov

Thoughts?
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
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where do you get a solid 2/3 level defenseman that is good in transition and cheaper than Alzner while being almost as good as he is overall?

This is part I don't get. that player as a UFA is more expensive. That player in his restricted years is unobtanium.

Find the Trevor Daley.
 

txpd

Registered User
Jan 25, 2003
69,649
14,131
New Bern, NC
I know we're really zoned in on this Alzner situation. But i want to express an opinion about the Caps struggling PP.

Why don't they try to mirror the set up for PP2 to make other teams adjust a lot more. Its looked the same for 4 years and it seems like teams are learning all the wrinkles.

PP1
Ovechkin-Wilson(Connolly)-Kuznetsov(Johansson)
Carlson-Backstrom

PP2
Williams-Vrana-Burakovsky
Oshie-Orlov

Thoughts?

Not sure how you mirror pp1 with pp2. Are you talking about an entirely different formation? If this is the Caps base 1-3-1 set with Ovechkin in his one timer hole. You have Orlov as the first shooting option on pp2. You have a right shot at the top of the set that cant pass for the one timer without turning his body. you have Oshie, a forward in the Carlson spot meaning he is the defenseman. You also have Williams on the halfway running the play.

Are you sure? or did you mean something else?
 

ovikovy817

Registered User
May 23, 2015
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I'll leave it here

ES TOI vs Bruins

Alzner 21:04 ; +1 ; 7 blocks
Carlson 20:48 ; 0 ; 1 block
Orlov 20:34 ; 0 ; 2 blocks
Orpik 20:01 ; -1 ; 5 blocks
Schmidt under 20
 

CapitalsCupReality

It’s Go Time!!
Feb 27, 2002
64,375
19,069
I read these numbers for what people want to pay guys and it feels like people are stuck in 3 years ago.

Trevor Daley, what a joke. Dude was run out of town and now he's suddenly the poster boy. I guess it should be easy to get a few of his type player and the Cup is ours...../eyeroll.
 

Skrudland2Lomakin

Registered User
Jan 1, 2011
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Alzner is the type of player that many fans here won't realize how sweet we have it until he's gone. He's so under appreciated.
 

Hivemind

We're Touched
Oct 8, 2010
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Trevor Daley, what a joke. Dude was run out of town and now he's suddenly the poster boy. I guess it should be easy to get a few of his type player and the Cup is ours...../eyeroll.
The Penguins scouting staff identified a player they felt had significant potential and was miscast in his situation on another team. They acquired that player for cheap, and it worked out. Not sure what there's to eye roll there. The Penguins have made that a staple. Aside of the Despres for Lovejoy trade (and even that looks better in the present than it did at the time of the trade), the Penguins have typically come out ahead in their defensive trades. They brought in both Justin Schultz and Ian Cole via trade in the lead-up to their Cup run last year. Matt Niskanen is another perfect example. Niskanen was almost viewed as a throw-in in the Neal/Goligoski trade, but he ended up arguably the best player in the deal.

If you'd prefer a different example from different circumstances, consider Nick Leddy instead. Or Kevin Klein. Or Jay Bouwmeester. There's one or two of these quality pieces getting traded for reasonable returns each year. The Caps would just have to be the ones to seek them out and act upon them. I'm not even talking the PK Subban, Shea Weber, Adam Larsson, or Dion Phaneuf mega deals.
 

SpinningEdge

Registered User
Feb 12, 2015
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Fairfax, VA
Not as good defensively but better in transition, which this team needs more of from the backend. Use the saved cap space to improve other areas of the roster. Seems reasonable.

Again this assumes Alzner is at 6 million + per year on a long-term contract. If he's willing to re-sign at ~5 mil per then I'd do that.

Alzner doesn't miss games. His style isn't something that will suck in many years. He's a smart player and a top D pairing guy against other top lines.

IMO Alzner is more important than TJ Oshie. Our best player is our goalie who is in his prime and is one of best goalies statistic wise of all time in the playoffs. You don't let Alzner leave with a goalie like that.
 

Holtbyisms

Matt Irwin is a legit talent
Jul 1, 2012
6,914
3,572
Bedford, PA
Vrana plays the ovechkin type shooter but from the backstrom spot on the halfwall in hershey. Wouldn't mind us trying a setup like that. He's got a wicked one timer.
 

Carlzner

Registered User
Oct 31, 2011
16,661
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The Penguins scouting staff identified a player they felt had significant potential and was miscast in his situation on another team. They acquired that player for cheap, and it worked out. Not sure what there's to eye roll there. The Penguins have made that a staple. Aside of the Despres for Lovejoy trade (and even that looks better in the present than it did at the time of the trade),

What you just described is basically a GMGM dumpster dive.

So... instead of paying great players that play extremely well for us we should... dumpster dive.

OK, got it. Great plan
 

trick9

Registered User
Jun 2, 2013
12,076
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What you just described is basically a GMGM dumpster dive.

So... instead of paying great players that play extremely well for us we should... dumpster dive.

OK, got it. Great plan

Good dumpster diving is not a bad plan. For example Rangers signed Michael Grabner who is ones of the fastest players in the league and fits like a glove to their speedy system. Penguins got Trevor Daley for pretty much nothing because the Blackhawks pretty brutally mishandling him. Quenneville played him on the wrong side and he was always a pretty bad fit to that system because he's an offensive D man that wasn't trusted at all in Chicago. He started nearly 70% on the offensive zone and Quenneville didn't really care that he had 56.4 CF% because he wants his D's to be defense-first kind of players. Penguins didn't care about that too much.

Just year before moving to the Blackhawks Daley was on Stars top-pairing.

If you trust your scouting and coaches you can make a pretty good finds from dumpster diving.
 
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