2022 University Cup

[AUS Fan]

The Canada-US games only lasted 4 years. The 1st year only US NCAA Seniors could play because they wouldn't be tainted by the Canadian pros who got $75 a week when they played Junior. The 2nd year the US changed it and allowed Canadian players in the NCAA to play plus allowed any other US players. The 3rd and 4th years I didn't even know about until recently because the AUS was not involved coaching wise. I can't recall where the players came from.

As far as the NCAA getting beat by a bunch of washed up Juniors... NCAA is very good hockey. Most AUS teams would lose when they went to play in the US. UNB managed a win or 2, same for UofA. Other CW and OUA teams have not done well.
Look at Michigan this year - 7 1st round picks from 2021 including 1,2,4 and 5.

 

[dm8895]

The Canada-US games only lasted 4 years. The 1st year only US NCAA Seniors could play because they wouldn't be tainted by the Canadian pros who got $75 a week when they played Junior. The 2nd year the US changed it and allowed Canadian players in the NCAA to play plus allowed any other US players. The 3rd and 4th years I didn't even know about until recently because the AUS was not involved coaching wise. I can't recall where the players came from.

As far as the NCAA getting beat by a bunch of washed up Juniors... NCAA is very good hockey. Most AUS teams would lose when they went to play in the US. UNB managed a win or 2, same for UofA. Other CW and OUA teams have not done well.
Look at Michigan this year - 7 1st round picks from 2021 including 1,2,4 and 5.

Oh trust me the NCAA is superior at least in the top group of teams but they would have nothing to gain. If the US won the thought would be "yeah of course" and if they lost "how did they lose to these scrubs".
To my understanding this is a large reason why the KHL doesn't take part in the champions league, if they win they gain nothing , if they lose it brings up the question of "are they the best league outside of the NHL". I was more coming at it from the angle of protecting their brand. I do think it would be a much more interesting matchup if NHL draft picks were not aloud to play but I suppose that kind of defeats the purpose of a series or whatever you would call it.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

The Canada-US games only lasted 4 years. The 1st year only US NCAA Seniors could play because they wouldn't be tainted by the Canadian pros who got $75 a week when they played Junior. The 2nd year the US changed it and allowed Canadian players in the NCAA to play plus allowed any other US players. The 3rd and 4th years I didn't even know about until recently because the AUS was not involved coaching wise. I can't recall where the players came from.

As far as the NCAA getting beat by a bunch of washed up Juniors... NCAA is very good hockey. Most AUS teams would lose when they went to play in the US. UNB managed a win or 2, same for UofA. Other CW and OUA teams have not done well.
Look at Michigan this year - 7 1st round picks from 2021 including 1,2,4 and 5.

If you took only Seniors from the NCAA and USports, it would be a close game. The NCAA has more elite talent than USports, but few of those players stick around until their Senior year. If you just compare graduating Seniors from each, the level is very similar (ECHL / AHL calibre).

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

OK....

So, we're looking at 2 weekends to get this done.
I'm thinking the semi final "host" does not have to spend any money for the other team to show up?
Guessing it would be Fri-Sun, similar to CW playoffs.
The semi final would have 1-4 and 2-3, with the higher seed as home team?
One problem with this is that it will almost always be UofA and UNB with 2 random OUA teams, one will travel to Edmonton and the other to Freddy Beach.

The Mitchell Bowl and Uteck Bowl have a pre-determined host rotation. Do the same thing for these Semi-Finals. One year CW hosts a Semi, the next year they don't. Throw the seedings out the window because they are no longer meaningful.

Here's what I would do to keep it simple:

Clare Drake Cup (CW vs. OUA West)
2023 ... CW Champ Hosts
2024 ... OUA West Champ Hosts
etc ...

Kelly Nobes Cup (AUS vs. OUA East)
2023 ... OUA East Champ Hosts
2024 ... AUS Champ Hosts
etc ...

Host team provides accommodation, gets to keep gate receipts. Visiting team pays for travel. Teams know a year in advance, so they can budget for it. If the conference is smart, they'll pool money to cover the travel costs.

University Cup then gets treated the same as the Vanier Cup ... instead of having a host university, have USports deal with sponsorship / broadcasting / etc. Mattamy Centre hosts a lot of events, so this shouldn't be complicated. In fact, it would certainly be less complicated and less costly than trying to figure out how to host the UCup in Lethbridge or PEI.

 

[AUS Fan]

"In fact, it would certainly be less complicated and less costly than trying to figure out how to host the UCup in Lethbridge or PEI."

I wouldn't be so quick to 'dump' on UPEI. I'll let you know next March.

I like the playoff idea, but am still concerned about fans for the OUA hosted games. Another issue is that hockey doesn't have the same following as football. And I'm not going to be able to find a Comfort Inn for $110 in Toronto.

Edit: I have passed your proposal to the folks that run stuff in Halifax, like U-Cup, Mem Cup, World Juniors, Briar, etc.

 

[FreddyFoyle]

Well back in the 1980's there were CIAU regional championships leading to a Final-4. UNB played Toronto in 1984 in a best-of-3 "Eastern" championship. Not sure how they earned the right to host the series in Fredericton, but the Red Devils lost in two straight games, although the first game was reasonably close. The Varsity Blues then went on to smoke everyone at the Final-4 U-Cup championship.

 

[AUS Fan]

Well back in the 1980's there were CIAU regional championships leading to a Final-4. UNB played Toronto in 1984 in a best-of-3 "Eastern" championship. Not sure how they earned the right to host the series in Fredericton, but the Red Devils lost in two straight games, although the first game was reasonably close. The Varsity Blues then went on to smoke everyone at the Final-4 U-Cup championship.

I'm sure UofT players had never seen the Saint John river flood half of Freddy Beach and southwards. That probably was a factor in UNB hosting.

 

[Rob]

I’m guessing when they used to host it at a neutral site the CIS had to pick up the cost .

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

I’m guessing when they used to host it at a neutral site the CIS had to pick up the cost .

Almost certainly.

But the cost of hosting at Mattamy Centre will be pretty low, given that it's owned by Ryerson.

 

[MiamiHockeyII]

"In fact, it would certainly be less complicated and less costly than trying to figure out how to host the UCup in Lethbridge or PEI."

I wouldn't be so quick to 'dump' on UPEI. I'll let you know next March.

I like the playoff idea, but am still concerned about fans for the OUA hosted games. Another issue is that hockey doesn't have the same following as football. And I'm not going to be able to find a Comfort Inn for $110 in Toronto.

With all due respect to the fine people of PEI, it should go without saying that it's cheaper, faster, and less complicated to transport teams of 30+ people to Toronto than to either Lethbridge or PEI.

I'm sure Ryerson has a deal with the local hotels that could be extended to a weekend in March, when nobody is visiting Toronto by choice.

 

[AUS Fan]

With all due respect to the fine people of PEI, it should go without saying that it's cheaper, faster, and less complicated to transport teams of 30+ people to Toronto than to either Lethbridge or PEI.

I'm sure Ryerson has a deal with the local hotels that could be extended to a weekend in March, when nobody is visiting Toronto by choice.

Ask Gibby how easy it was to get to Freddy Beach in 2017.

I like your "plan" a lot. Sadly, it will probably never happen unless there are no bidders for futures U-Cups, and that does not appear to be the case atm.

 

[mikandi1]

keep the ideas rolling AUSfan!
8 teams was great idea as it expanded the number of teams that could possibly play or experince a national championship....
but it was a Sportsnet idea and adopted for most sports. equity thing was a push for sure as well.
hockeys does not situate itself very well in a bronze medal (it is not the olympics) let alone a 5v6 and 7v8 games like soccer and court sports have in their formats!
and the one and done is a killer especially in hockey where the bid cost is high!!
i love the Clare Drake Cup/Kelly Nobes cup idea.
cover teams hotel and meals and maybe a flat number $ per team for travel.
host gets the rest for taking on the risk and weekend. usports or conference gets the $ from tv and major sponsors ...is there any
but maybe rich get richer in this format??

 

[AUS Fan]

keep the ideas rolling AUSfan!
8 teams was great idea as it expanded the number of teams that could possibly play or experince a national championship....
but it was a Sportsnet idea and adopted for most sports. equity thing was a push for sure as well.
hockeys does not situate itself very well in a bronze medal (it is not the olympics) let alone a 5v6 and 7v8 games like soccer and court sports have in their formats!
and the one and done is a killer especially in hockey where the bid cost is high!!
i love the Clare Drake Cup/Kelly Nobes cup idea.
cover teams hotel and meals and maybe a flat number $ per team for travel.
host gets the rest for taking on the risk and weekend. usports or conference gets the $ from tv and major sponsors ...is there any
but maybe rich get richer in this format??

Credit goes to MiamiHockey for this. I can't see any TV as their costs are too high.

 

[Huskiedoo]

In Sask, I could see USask putting in a bid for women’s hockey before men’s hockey.

As for the University Cup, has anybody given much thought to a hybrid 5-team tournament (host, 2 OUA, CW and AUS), with one pool round-robin, top three team make playoffs, one semifinal (2v3) and final? I do realize it would be an expanded tournament which would likely make it prohibitive but the host team would be guaranteed a bunch of games to make up for additional hosting costs.

As it stands now, most players are already missing a week of school (5 school days). Would adding a couple of days really matter that much??

(But I already know that answer ! !)

But the whole Cup idea intrigues me and warrants further exploration !! Keep it coming!

 

[Rob]

My guess is that UNB would put in a bid for the women’s nationals before they go for the men’s again. Which is fine.

 

[dm8895]

anyone have any idea on the cost to host mens vs womens UCups?

 

[timbitca]

Nothing posted for hockey, but check this page out: Bid Books

Compare the two and it'll give you an idea. I can't remember the last time I saw the hockey one's, but the difference was as significant if not more, and the numbers might have been higher.

 

[AUS Fan]

Bid Book for 2021 University Cup:

https://usports.ca/uploads/hq/Championship_Bid_Books/USports_BidBooks19_Hockey_M_EN_DIGITAL-_FINAL.pdf

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

I'm guessing UQTR gets to host after UPEI? They seem to have a pretty good following, from what I could see in this years playoffs (OUA TV).
IMO, their program should be strong for the next few years.
I wouldn't be surprised if the UofS and Moncton put in future bids.
I am a bit surprised that the Huskies didn't put in a bid with Babcock coaching the program.
If I am correct, he signed on for two years? If so, this would be his last year, unless he has a change of heart or an NHL position becomes available?
Fredericton and Halifax can host, but you want to give it a rest.
I think UNB is a few years out of hosting again.

 

[AUS Fan]

I'm guessing UQTR gets to host after UPEI? They seem to have a pretty good following, from what I could see in this years playoffs (OUA TV).
IMO, their program should be strong for the next few years.
I wouldn't be surprised if the UofS and Moncton put in future bids.
I am a bit surprised that the Huskies didn't put in a bid with Babcock coaching the program.
If I am correct, he signed on for two years? If so, this would be his last year, unless he has a change of heart or an NHL position becomes available?
Fredericton and Halifax can host, but you want to give it a rest.
I think UNB is a few years out of hosting again.

You don't "get to host", you need to bid and have the bid accepted. UQTR would be one of several schools considering a bid. For a school to bid they need all the "money" stuff figured out and from the hockey side they need to build a team good enough to compete. It is Not a simple process.

 

[RED ARMY EAST]

You don't "get to host", you need to bid and have the bid accepted. UQTR would be one of several schools considering a bid. For a school to bid they need all the "money" stuff figured out and from the hockey side they need to build a team good enough to compete. It is Not a simple process.

Correction, I mean't they would be a strong candidate, if they put in a bid.

 

[Rob]

Correction, I mean't they would be a strong candidate, if they put in a bid.

Yes. Trois-Rivières has a brand new rink that seats around 4000. Their ECHL team plays out of there.

Good for them if they get to host but I doubt I would make the trip. Prefer Ryerson myself.

 

[Drummer]

The Canada-US games only lasted 4 years.

Because the NCAA and CIS did not sanction the events - it was considered 'professional' and would impact the player's eligibility for the next season - that's why only seniors and some players leaving early played. Hard to keep something like that going without the help of the leagues.

 

[Drummer]

anyone have any idea on the cost to host mens vs womens UCups?

Here are the last Bid Books for men's and women's hockey.

Men's Bid Book
Women's Bid Book

The biggest difference are

Guarantee - Men = $125K vs Women = $10K
Tickets - Men = Pay %12.5 of gross ticket sales to USPORTS vs Women = 10%

The rest is basically the same.
USPORTS secured Sponsor = Host gets 30% while USPORTS get 70% (same for both Men & Women)
Host secured Sponsor = Host gets 50% while USPRTS get 50% (same for both Men & Women)

Host gets to keep all 50/50 revenue since it's not explicitly listed in the revenue section.
There use to be $10K limit at which a host could keep all sponsorship below this level, but committee's were working hard on selling <$10K packages and USPORTS wasn't getting anything - so it's now 70/30 regardless of the sponsorship size (this is where previous tournaments really made their money).

Travel and Hotels are the responsibility of the participating teams, but the host is required to identify which hotels they can use and the discount that has been arranged on their behalf.

 

[dm8895]

Semi random thought, but UNB has always had a "legacy item" from hosting nationals (centre ice scoreboard, video boards, private boxes, etc). Regardless if they bid on mens or womens in the future, the next thing should be visiting dressing rooms.. I have played hockey in 95% of the rinks in New Brunswick and a decent amount in NS and PEI , and the rooms at the AUC are as bad as every facility I've been to that isn't in a place like Minto, Shippigan,etc. I can't imagine they are much fun with 20 large hockey players... even with the door open to join 2 rooms and the showers were the type where if I dropped my face cloth, i would not want to pick it up... It's the perfect rink for what it is, but those rooms needed revamped 30 years ago.

Edit - Holy grammar, any time I post from my phone, I begin writing like I text.. Reading this it feels like I'm reading something written by a 7 year old. Oh well